Fishing - Maps etc. // Fischen - Schatzkarten usw.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

While trying to get one or two maps (for about 6 hours now), while I didn't get a single map, I thought of an idea. As far as I know, the system currently works like this:

You are fishing and each time you "throw the rot out", theres X% chance that you get a map. Skill and the like don't influence that chance.

Because I know, that just raising that chance so that everyone gets a thousands of maps in a few minutes isn't the idea of the system, I thought of an other way to give out maps and the like.

The number of fish you get increases with the right attributes and the skill and so should the chance to get maps.

What I thought of is the following:

The character starts fishing and has x% chance to get anything. That chance increases with skill. Attributes also influence that chance.

Now, the server (or client, no idea how it would work exactly), choses what the character gets.

There's x% chance that the thing the character gets is a

-fish
-bucket
-boot
-lamp
-map

If the user hits the "map", the server will now chose which kind of map. The better the map, the lower the chance that the server choses the map.

I hope you get what I mean. That way, characters with better attributes and higher skill will have a higher chance of getting maps. I think that with avarage attributes for fishing and 100% skill, the chance to get a map should be about 3 - 4 times higher than it is now.

-------------------

Ich wollte heute ein oder zwei Karten angeln um mal wieder auf Schatzsuche zu gehen und bin nun mittlerweile gut 6 Stunden am Fischen, ohne eine Karte gefunden zu haben. Da das sehr frustrierend ist, wie sich jeder denken kann, hab ich drüber nachgegrübelt, was man denn machen könnte, um das ganze zu "verbessern", ohne dabei die Wirtschaft in Illa total zu vernichten. Mir ist natürlich klar, dass der Sinn und Zweck des Systems nicht ist, dass jeder tausende Karten binnen weniger Minuten findet.

Zur Zeit ist die Chance eine Karte zu finden so weit ich weiß Skill- und Attribut unabhängig. Die Chance einen Fish zu fangen hängt dabei jedoch vom Skill und den Attributen ab. Ich dachte mir, das könnte man ändern und bin auf folgende Idee gekommen:

Charakter X fängt an zu fischen.

-> Charakter X findet mit Skill- und Attributabhängiger Chance IRGENDETWAS

Der Server (oder der Client, ich weiß nicht was von beidem diese Aufgabe übernehmen würde) berechnet nun aus einer Liste von Sachen (wobei je nach Item die Chance dass der Server/Client dieses auswählt gering oder gut ist):

-Forelle
-Lachs
-Eimer
-Stiefel
-Öllampe
-Karte

Fällt die Wahl des Servers auf eine Karte, wird nun bestimmt, welche Art von Karte der Charakter erhält. Je höher der Wert der Karte, desdo geringer dabei die Chance, dass diese ausgewählt wird.

Auf diese Art und Weise wäre es für Charaktere mit höherem Skill und besseren Attributen leichter, Karten zu finden, was das System meiner Meinung nach verbessern würde. Die Chance eine Karte zu finden sollte dabei dann für einen Charakter mit 100% Fischenskill und durchschnittlichen Attributen etwa 3 - 4 mal so hoch sein wie sie derzeit ist.

[Faladron]

A chance 3-4 times higher results in (theoretically) 3-4 times more maps in-game than there are currently.

That'd be the coffin-nail for the in-game economy.

I want to point out the large impact this'd have on the items and money in-game (a signifficant increase of both that is), an aspect you didn't seem to consider too much in your proposal, perhaps you can understand what I am trying to point out and consider it in your idea / alter it if you find it reasonably.

[Estralis Seborian]

Personally, I think the current system is just fine. Increasing skill means that you get a higher chance to get something, thus, with a fixed ratio of maps/fish, your chance to get a map per fishing actions increases already. It is the same for e.g. mining, I see no reason nor use to treat all kinds of actions differently again. One should not abandon the approach to unify all kinds of similar actions for it reduces maintance work and increases intuitivity.

And to be honest, increasing the chance to get even more maps is not what I would recommend. Maps should be something very, very rare, I think they are already too common. Nobody fishes for fish, am I not right? It is fun to search for treasure, but when I get two maps during a one-cap-fishing session, I wonder how many maps one can fish in a eight hour fishing session...

I really second the idea of Kadiya, dunno whether it was posted here or somewhere else. The basic idea of it was that maps consist of serveral parts, the better the map, the more parts. This will yield more interaction between players. Maybe, only maybe, our devs think about introducing the finding of maps into more and more crafts, resulting in more variety. Then, the chances can be reduced to a lower value without reducing the number of maps ingame.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

If I get that idea of Kadiya you mentioned right, that would make it even harder to get a complete map.

And as for the current situation, I dunno if I'm just unlucky like hell, but the first half hour I was fishing, I did to have the pleasure to find and search for a treasure with Nerestro's friends. When I haven't found a map after that time yet, I continued with a new char to test out how long it'll take me to actually get a map. I started at about half past seven to fish and now it's two o'clock and I still didn't find a single map. Instead, I got about 40 oil lamps which are completely useless, 15 pairs of crappy boots and some buckets. I also needed about 15 rolls of thread because the string of the rot got ripped apart very oftenly. I don't think that this is the sence of the maps. They should give some more fun into the game, not frustrate the players if you ask me.

My wish isn't, that you get a map every minute. It's just that you get more maps, the better your skill gets, so that you actually can see that you're getting something for your "work".

As for the economy, I don't think that the maps are really hurting it. The only maps that have a really good drop are the pirate's treasure, the YR, dragon cave treasure and maybe the silver object. On the other side, the items included in that (very difficult to get treasures) are items, that no crafter can make in that quality. F.e. exzellent icebird amulets, etc. But that is a good thing, not a bad, because that way, people who work hard can get items that are REALLY good, without having to be lucky enough to participate the right quest. Also, you need high numbers of players to survive those maps. If you don't know the best strategy for each of the higher maps, you'll need about 5 up to 10 persons for each map, which reduces the actual worth, each single character gets out of the map to about 15 - 20 silver. That's not THAT much.

[Miklorius]

I am strictly against even more maps ingame! Too many players just PG fishing to get the maps. It seems that you also get too much reward for too less danger. Against WoW-ization of Illa!

PS: It would be good if the types and numbers guardians of treasures - I always wonder why some coins from a thief are guarded be monsters - are more dynamic. At the moment ist goes this way: "Hey, I got map X, it is guarded by Y und Z, so we need a mage and two fighters." That sucks!

[Kaila Galathil Travinus]

Another idea to think about and I don't know how it could be scripted, but any new PO that joins the game would have a certain amount of time, possibly two RL weeks, that fishing would be a little easier for them. This would accomplish a couple of things, it would allow them to earn a little copper quickly in order to begin their craft easily/get weapons and armors for fighters etc. But, the most important thing it would do would be to encourage more RP with other chars ig.

Walks up to a new player whispering "Do you have any maps? I can help you find them for a share. Can I get you a fishing pole to fish?"

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Yeah. And an other fact is, that the economy has quite a failure in my opinion when it comes to the prices for items made by crafters.

To point out what I mean: Crafters need a lots of time and many materials for their work, which makes the results (f.e. armors) way expensive.

Warriors most oftenly can't affort to buy themselves good gear because of that. The maps are a good way for them (for mages also) to get money. That money makes it possible for them, to buy what is needed from the crafters and what you can't get from the maps.

more maps -> More money for mages/warriors -> more customers for merchants -> more interaction between characters.

[Jupiter]

PS: It would be good if the types and numbers guardians of treasures - I always wonder why some coins from a thief are guarded be monsters Rolling Eyes - are more dynamic. At the moment ist goes this way: "Hey, I got map X, it is guarded by Y und Z, so we need a mage and two fighters." That sucks!

In other words: You shouldn't know which trasure it is.

And that sounds good to me.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

PS: It would be good if the types and numbers guardians of treasures - I always wonder why some coins from a thief are guarded be monsters Rolling Eyes - are more dynamic. At the moment ist goes this way: "Hey, I got map X, it is guarded by Y und Z, so we need a mage and two fighters." That sucks!

In other words: You shouldn't know which trasure it is.

And that sounds good to me.

Total crap. That'd make everyone that finds a map go safely.

-> 8 people start out to hunt a treasure and find a farmer's treasure which has a total worth of about 2 silvers.

-> Everyone is frustrated

[Llama]

I got about 40 oil lamps which are completely useless,

Side comment: Oil lamps can be sold for 10 coppers each (well they used to).

Ontopic: I don't like the 'attributes help', because people will just create characters who's only role is to help their (OOC) friends find and collect maps.

We already have people with full perception just for this.

[Juniper Onyx]

I think the current system is fine too.

For someone who's been fishing for six hours for "A map or two", how can you not call that Powergaming? You really needed that many fish?

Nah, too many people PG for maps alone as it is. I even see people throwing fish away!

I second Kadiya's idea to break the maps into pieces, yet leave the system the way it is. It will make Maps Rarer, and provide more interaction and advanture for players.

Yes, maps have affected the economy. There are seveal people I can name that have 25+ Gold coins simply from chasing down maps! It wasn't from crafting, I assure you!

And the economy is slowly being worked out by a team of volunteers, be patient.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

I think the current system is fine too.

For someone who's been fishing for six hours for "A map or two", how can you not call that Powergaming? You really needed that many fish?

Nah, too many people PG for maps alone as it is. I even see people throwing fish away!

I second Kadiya's idea to break the maps into pieces, yet leave the system the way it is. It will make Maps Rarer, and provide more interaction and advanture for players.

Yes, maps have affected the economy. There are seveal people I can name that have 25+ Gold coins simply from chasing down maps! It wasn't from crafting, I assure you!

And the economy is slowly being worked out by a team of volunteers, be patient.

First of all, Juniper, you're the last player that should call anyone a pger. And as I said allready, I went to fishing with my char because I thought it would be cool to go on the hunt with the people of my char. When I hadn't found a single map after half an hour, I made a new char (which I'll delete as soon as I found one map), to test how long it will take me to get a map. So far, I've been fishing with that char for about 8 hours now and didn't find a single map yet.

Also, what's that crap with "Omg there are some rich people who didn#t get their money from pging crafts, I swear!"

It's not the sence of Illarion to let all the crafters get rich while all the warriors, mages, druids and whatever can't even afford what they need to do their jobs.

[Vilarion]

The current system is just fine. Still I am looking forward for quarter maps

[Beldir]

Taeryon I think the treasure maps are nothing you should search for.
If you get one it should be a surprise.
That is my opinion, and if you want to to search for treasures , maybe you can buy a map?

[Estralis Seborian]

Afterall, this game is about roleplay .

As a final note, of course there are some inbalanced things in Illarion. While one has to slay 100 demon skeletons to get a slightly scraped magic sword with luck, one get the same sword along with a bunch of silver coins, a sweet flame helmet and god knows what else by fishing for half an hour, assembling a squad, digging somewhere and beating up some monsters. There will always be a best way to get rich, strong or whatever. Let's not forget the focus of this game.

Good proposals are always welcome. Nerfing is always simple and always discouraging, finding creative methods to reach a better state is the way to go and the purpose of this board.

[Korm Kormsen]

Also, what's that crap with "Omg there are some rich people who didn#t get their money from pging crafts, I swear!"

i got different experiences.
when in need of some quick coins, i send my char to the gnolls or to other easy monsters, collecting coins, selling the junk they drop, instead of crafting for hours and hours.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Also, what's that crap with "Omg there are some rich people who didn#t get their money from pging crafts, I swear!"

i got different experiences.
when in need of some quick coins, i send my char to the gnolls or to other easy monsters, collecting coins, selling the junk they drop, instead of crafting for hours and hours.

Gnolls aren't exactly what one calls easy Monsters... you need at least 50% skill to be able to really fight them. Even if you have good attributes. And still, I don't want to know how long you'll have to cut down gnolls till you can afford a set of armor for nearly 100 silver

[Korm Kormsen]

And still, I don't want to know how long you'll have to cut down gnolls till you can afford a set of armor for nearly 100 silver

i dont know. i never bought a set of armor for so much money.
but i know, that i have to farm more real hours for ten silver, than it takes me by fighting monsters.

[Lennier]

Taeryon I think the treasure maps are nothing you should search for. If you get one it should be a surprise.

There is nothing more to say. But i want to translate it in german to make it clear for all!

Code: Select all

Ziel des Angelns ist es nicht Schatzkarten zu finden. Sie sind ein Bonus, auf das alltäglich nicht gehofft werden darf. Es ist ein Zusatz, eine Überraschung. In diesem Sinne wird es auch einmal noch weiter ausgebaut werden, in dem aus den Karten nur noch Kartenstücke werden, die gesammelt und zusammengepuzzelt werden müssen.

And like Vilarion wrote, it is aim in future, to force it some more. In future the maps will be only pices of bigger maps, which need to be collected about a long time, like a puzzle.

[Vern Kron]

That makes little to no rp sense. Some one has a map. They rip it up, toss one piece in a river, some how hide it in a rock or findable while mining, put a piece in a tree, and then bury anouther piece. All the while there will be others searching for the other pieces, and soon there will be four large groups trying to find pieces to a map, and end up with a war. The system is fine as it is, people like to search for treasure.

Crafting prices are set by the crafter, if it is too expensive go elsewhere. So some crafters try to rip off other characters, there are also those who sell for extremely cheap prices.

Sorry if I am too blunt but that is the way I see things. If you really want to change the way maps are found, you should have npc people, like bandits, (or any other humanoid/race creatures, Ex gnomes) drop the maps. And only a certain type, that gets spawned once a day/week. At random times, most likely spawned by a gm.

[Bjarkar Kjartan]

More frustration comes if you find a map and you can't dig it out, because the postion is in a mountain. And my fihing skills is nearly Yellow-Green but Tearyon is right because maps a so rare ... and some Goods of farmers are not be worth-worth .....

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Taeryon I think the treasure maps are nothing you should search for. If you get one it should be a surprise.

There is nothing more to say. But i want to translate it in german to make it clear for all!

Code: Select all

Ziel des Angelns ist es nicht Schatzkarten zu finden. Sie sind ein Bonus, auf das alltäglich nicht gehofft werden darf. Es ist ein Zusatz, eine Überraschung. In diesem Sinne wird es auch einmal noch weiter ausgebaut werden, in dem aus den Karten nur noch Kartenstücke werden, die gesammelt und zusammengepuzzelt werden müssen.

And like Vilarion wrote, it is aim in future, to force it some more. In future the maps will be only pices of bigger maps, which need to be collected about a long time, like a puzzle.

Sagen wir ein Gnomschatz besteht künftig aus vier Teilen und für jedes Teil braucht man ein anders Handwerk. Wir kommen dann bei "Nicht-Alleskönnern" auf:

1. Bergmann
2. Fischer
3. Bauer oder was auch immer
4. Holzfäller

Gehen wir nun davon aus, dass diese vier Handwerker wirklich Handwerker sind und keine Krieger, fügen wir noch zwei Krieger hinzu, die es braucht um den Schatz sicher zu heben ud einen Magier um im Notfall zu heilen.

Das macht 7 Leute. Für die Einzelperson hat die Karte, für die man vermutlich ca. 2 Wochen gebraucht hat um sie zu bekommen dann weniger als 10 Silber. Worin liegt da der Sinn? Frustration?

[Miklorius]

Wieso sollte man nun Handwerker brauchen, um Karten zusammenzusetzen?!

[Bjarkar Kjartan]

Um Leuten wie dir die Arbeit zu erleichtern.

Ich vermute mal, um die einzelnen Karten elemente zusammen zu fügen.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

Nein, um die Teile zu finden.

[Saril]

Taer laß es doch so. Es ist gut so wie es ist. Schatzkarten sind ein Bonus und nicht da um Geld, Ausrüstung zu verdienen. Es sind kleine Quest mehr nicht.

Das Schatzkartenfindesystem hat sich so gut eingependelt.

[ThisGuy]

I've never found a map while fishing and my fishing is sort of green. While fishing 1 day noticed a dwarf get 2 maps right beside me and she was a new character, had just gotten the fishing pole, and had never fished before...

Though I don't think the chances of getting a map should change I do like the idea of skill determining what you get.

ie: nearly impossible for a new char to catch a map even if it gets caught on thier line, but higher level fishing improves whether you're able to catch the map and near yellow would almost always catch the maps that are on thier lines.

I also like the idea of being able to get maps from other places as not all people fish.

[Miklorius]

It is just luck if your fish hook hits a map, so skill shouldn't have any influence on it.

The maps should be a bonus but it seems they are a major game content for fighting characters now. It is ridiculous how many (magical guarded) treasure maps can be found in the rivers of Gobaith...

[ThisGuy]

It is just luck if your fish hook hits a map, so skill shouldn't have any influence on it.

which is what I said, just stated differently. My comment was to actually pull a map in to shore(soggy piece of paper in the water) would take skill...