Problem in The Community

[Lrmy]

You may have noticed various small complaints in the forums about the quality of Role Play(in general) in Illarion. I think that this happens to be quite the problem. People start to play other RP games when they could be in Illarion because of this. Others just quit. I don't know if we need to get stricter with the RP rules or what, but something certainly needs to change.

Problems I have noticed that are WAY to common:

Stupid #me's that don't show actions. A #me can ONLY show physical actions that another character can see. No, I can't see the orc is stupid, I can't see special technique number 42, and I can't see something like this -A mage casts a spell in ancient
Someone heard that with no skill..
(Yes, that really happened today.)

People making joke, after joke, after joke in game. This isn't 6th grade, and we don't care who can be funnier. Stick to your character. PLEASE.

No one has any fear in game.

People just ignore(completely) the people/PO's they dislike in game.

Use of OOC info.

There are other small things that you may not think are problems that actually add to the collective problem. And I know that I have been guilty of some of these things in the past. I just want everyone to make an effort not to do any of this in the future.

[Julius]

The whole #me casts spells with a brand new character is shit role play but it's just as bad as #me is a highly powergamed fighter character who just pwned your primarily rp orientated warrior. Gets annoying.

[Juliana D'cheyne]

I think a little leniency in RP if fine, it takes awhile to learn and some aren't interested in changing their RP, the game is about fun and as long as it corresponds to something ig that is happening I am fine with it. However, the obvious ones attempting to be funny #me turns on the radio because is bored" is simply rude to anyone else ig and should not be done as RP...I wouldn't like it even as ooc.

[abcfantasy]

I agree. But certain things tend to make me think that the problems are almost irriversible now. People overall have the wrong mentality, and it won't be easily changed. I think about this, and I think hard, and I get to believe there are MANY things to be changed, but it's kinda hard to explain.

It relates to the whole of Gobaith. For example, everything seems to be centred on Troll's Bane. People that get banned, criminals that are sought after, or people annoyed by the living conditions or anything, what can they do? Stay in Troll's Bane or go somewhere else where there are less people and less roleplay (although it tends to be of a better level). So in my opinion, they either do go somewhere else and log in less for the rare rp (and waste time on training skills maybe) or stay in troll's bane and either log in less (due to annoyance) or in the case of criminals, just roam around freely and annoying others.

And it also seems we just can't have a peaceful yet still fun roleplaying atmosphere - "relaxed rp" as some may call it. Right now, it would either be disturbed by some shady/fearless/annoying char appearing nearby or some random person shouting "HELP!/HILFE!". However, even if we remove both of these, it would probably still be hard to enjoy long time of peaceful moments, because the community seems not to be used to it. This is partly what makes me think it's almost hopeless.

Regarding troubles and such, I think there are so much that they are taken lightly or avoided. I think ALL "bad" acts both GM and players plan/perform/do should be monitored and allowed by seers or whoever. Such people doing "bad" acts should also accept consequences and all that goes with them. My char would want to hunt some people, but probably the same person(s) would come another day to hunt mine, and it will be a neverending episode. And because of this, all or most villains are alive, walking around happily and freely, but obviously degrading the friendly atmosphere for those "good" people.

The list can just keep going on. It also makes me think there are too many races available, too many towns/villages. Also, quests have become so hard to organize properly. What would be nice? Quests that would relate only to Varshikar, with no "foreigners" participating, or only to a certain guild. Quests that would provoke some political/economical issues, etc... But this almost seems impossible in the current circumstances. I can't name exactly what's making it so hard, but it's just the general environment that makes it so. This is another that makes me think it is close to hopeless.

Bah, I'll stop here for now.
The game has recently become stressing for me. And no one wants to play stressing games so currently I'm much less active. I'll stay a little back and observe how things change slowly.

Edit: Just to add this, people have different (some wrong) views of how they want the game and on roleplay, and that makes it even harder to make it better. For those who want a more peaceful, pleasant, relaxed rp, a quick solution might be removing all "evil" events as well as criminal chars, but firstly, the chars will obviously and naturally be pissed and most likely leave the game and illarion doesn't want that, and secondly, some people who want constant action/fighting/chances to prove your pged skills/etc... will complain that there is too much peace. So that's yet another "jammed" field, where improving it seems too hard.

Edit2:

People just ignore(completely) the people/PO's they dislike in game.

I used to agree with that, but I get doubts now and I find it better to in fact do ignore some chars. Besides the fact that it's already hard to RP with a char who's PO really dislikes you (or vice versa), there's also the fact that if I know the PO does "things" to frustrate me and just has wrong impressions of RP and has absolutely no will to improve, then yes, I will gladly ignore.

Use of OOC info.

Unfortunately true, but something impossible to control, and must come entirely from the players' side, who, seeing the current circumstances, certainly won't improve on this field.

PS. Something more that makes it hard for a better overall in game atmosphere is the division of the two languages. BUT, I'm not saying I have anything against it, really. Just stating what makes everything harder.

[Taeryon Silverlight]

The problem with everything being centered in Trolls Bane isn't because of the people only. We saw that with the quest today. The GMs start a quest with an evil creature, saying that it wants to destroy Gobiath. And instead of going on with the plot at a neutral place like the Harbor or something, they just go to Trolls Bane.

Later in the quest, when that guy, who was a complete stranger to almost 100% of the characters told them to follow, almost none of the characters showed the slightest bit of distrust, but just followed him without any questions. I almost wondered, why the ppl didn't start moaning about me, letting my character ask questions ooc. and therefor slow down the quest and make them wait longer before they can finally stop the RP and use their skills to ctrl+click.

[abcfantasy]

That just proves my point on people's mentality.

Regarding the Troll's Bane thing, if it was started near the harbor then:
1. If there was a global mesage, everyone would go to the harbor, so won't make any difference if it is in the harbor or any other place.
2. If no message, it would be totally empty, and the "quest" would actually start when the creature or whomever it was reaches Troll's Bane.

[Noradur]

Therefor, i think we gms should aim on certain chars to involve in the first place.. that was my part and i started to involve random, because we wanted much plyers to participate. We got a big map and a lot of action so it was clear everything under 6 players would be a waste. But still. I should've aimed for players.

THat wasn't a quest of myself. I usually get my ideas for quest from character backrounds. I just walk arround with my own Player characters and get to know some characters. Those who are interesting to me, i contact as gm and ask for their character backround.

The reason why i am doing this is:
Every character, like every human being in the real world has his own people who he interacts with daily. ( And dont get this twisted with clique-RP)
And mostly chars i choose to start a quest on, have a certain group gathered arround them with similiar rp skills. So i aim for the right group.

Another reason i do it this way is to reward good rp with a quest. Because for me, Roleplay is still the most important aspect of this game. And everybody who does real good rp, should get a reward. So basically its just: Reward RP with RP.

But thats the only thing i can think of, what i, as Gamemaster, can do.

[Fianna Heneghan]

Problems I have noticed that are WAY to common:

Stupid #me's that don't show actions. A #me can ONLY show physical actions that another character can see. No, I can't see the orc is stupid, I can't see special technique number 42

I agree with this. It is really destroys the rp environment when someone #me's what they are thinking (( and doesn't it always involve an insult? )) Say it like you mean it and make it a part of the rp or keep it to yourself.

As far as joking around, I'm certainly guilty of this and while I enjoy the lighter atmosphere, I will try to keep it down from now on.

When it comes to rp'ing with players that I don't like OOC... actually some of the best moments ig were with the characters of players that I don't like personally. I don't have a problem rp'ing with them, as long as they are playing their characters. And I don't have a problem rp'ing that I'm annoyed with a character that annoys me. I would certainly expect the same treatment in return. To just ignore the character is pretty immature.

So... my two cents. I agree with your points, but I don't think the rp environment is really being damaged. I play another game, but still prefer the rp in Illarion.

[Vern Kron]

What I do not like is when people critizes other roleplay. Or just summon a bee, and let it attack people, and say it is research. Even if they are about to die, and once they do decide to save you, they summon anouther.

The other day, I did slip up in my roleplay. I said an abreviation, and I meant what, but totally butched it. Instantly one charecter says, #me thinks someone powergames too much. Today, I was attacked by a charecter who obviously had no ionterest in roleplaying, openly expressed it, and then attacked me. How do we react to that? I fought back, and was nearly killed. Luckily some one came by to save me, but then I still have to explain ooc that the person was randomly attacking. Once we fix this kind of thing, it will be easier to roleplay. I am partly to blame for this, I talked to a gm during this was happening, and probably should have mentioned I would have trouble fighting anything stronger then a swarm of insects.

[Harald Hradradr]

Very good point Noradur. I am...well I feel still new to this game but i encountered the "right" people first, i guess and was involved very quickly. But one problem is: my character is not exactly the politest guy around, some other charakters act properly, in theyr role, some others...well feel just pissed or something and i think they feel pissed ooc, which is a problem when people start to mix up in game and ooc. Anyway, there is a problem, when i play my char at trolls bane because all the new players start there. All of them have questions and my char just feels annoyed being asked by a dozen peeps whose names he just does not know and i, the po get annoyed when those peeps not even try to ask in a characters role. Sometimes i wonder why people start a game, when they did not read a single damn rule or have absolutely no clue of what role play (at which fashion ever) is about. I usually ask those guys to read the board first to get an impression and to think about a proper character background. But i really get angry when peeps start to attack everyone and then spam around that they have absolutely no clue of how to play that game (happened today). I told him to first off stop attacking. He did not and engaged another person for no reason, still spamming he needs help. Then I told him that i was up to kill him if he will not stop the attacks while he answerd with "lol" and "smile you" and...well. So i killed him to get rid of him (but never failed the characters role by doing so he attacked friends so...ughm...).
Guess it would be wise to have something like a tutorial. Before you start the real game and enter gobiath you start out at a small island where there is npcs (and maybe a volunteer or gm) who will explain a few things and give you a task or two...well, maybe three. One task might be to read a book about the towns of gobiath and a small questionaire after that. When the char fulfilled all tasks he will get a travel book or will be transported to a city he wishes to be or he wishes to start out which does not need to be trolls bane.

But that aside, there is indeed a problem of not rewarding role play or encouraging it. I do like the skill system. But i do miss rewards for role playing. But then again, what might that reward be and who will gain it? There comes in your, (Noradur) suggestion for rewarding role play with role play. Maybe some small rewards over the role play itself.

Maybe the GMs should (at least when they lead a quest or something) punish no play or very very bad role play. I just do not want to hear from a guy in front of me that he is putting some earplugs in to listen to whatever music. Or the jokers.... I mean, before a big battle arises a bit humor might be allowed (since it might have been the last laugh anyways) or at the tavern but there is too many damn clowns out there.

PS: Ah well, that's it by now. I apologize for the errors i made in the text.

[Vern Kron]

I disagree with the joking. People, even at funeruals, will make jokes. It is how some people deal with things, and could be how their charecter works. I know my charecter occasionally makes the off comment, just to ease the tension, or drag attention to himself.

[Fianna Heneghan]

I disagree with the joking. People, even at funeruals, will make jokes. It is how some people deal with things, and could be how their charecter works. I know my charecter occasionally makes the off comment, just to ease the tension, or drag attention to himself.

Oh good! A partner in crime. I'm gonna keep joking then.

And in my family we not only joke at funerals, some are actual roasts. And it's not a proper funeral until the party after. One fist fight and one person losing an article of clothing is required, the rest are extra. (( And that's just the funerals ))

[HolyKnight]

@ Nory /signed.
This is completely my mentality for Illa. RP should and does get rewarded over time, yes there are some really bad RPers out there (from your own perspective) god knows I am guilty of bad RP a lot just ask PO Kaila
@Harald not all n00bs are spectacular RPers that is a given but it doesn't mean that guy who was like lol ctrl + click "help" won't be an exceptional rper in a few months, or that guy who names his character Harry Potter might eventually read the wiki or background info once he gets the hang of the game and become a good rper too. Have patience Harald a N00bie island is coming so you don't have to put up with them . Also if someone is doing a really poor job of RP during a quest gms can and have in the past used that handy "instant pwnage Rune" or banned.
@abc. My boy! don't get frustrated we can chill out ig whenever you like go and sit back and drink some forties yo (/spam)

From my perspective the ooc comments ig or the silly #me's could be monitored differently and punished more severely. Obviously it is foolishness but I don't think that we as POs should let that affect our RP. I always keep this perspective about Illa, there is no other game that I have found where your imagination is more important then graphics, skills, or any other lame NPC conquer the world game. Regardless, people will complain about something. Also I think this statement has been over looked "No one has any fear in game. " I encourage all POs to seriously PUT yourself in your characters shoes see what they see, feel what they would feel and I think that many situations would have you shitting in your pants so to speak. And if you are arrogant enough not to RP running in fear, bowing down, begging for mercy, etc. don't [smile]ing complain on the forums or say I quit when you get owned ig.

[Vern Kron]

Fear in game, can be shown in different ways. Sometimes fear, can cause brave acts, and then it is seen as not fear, but courage. Fear can also cause people to hide, or feel trapped and start to fight back. I believe that people are roleplaying fear, considering we are threatened by a few players who are randomly killing, and a Gorf or demon or whatever attacking the island, people are becoming more hostile, not knowing what to do with their time. Spend time with friends and family, go make money, go get supplies, go about daily life, or go train to see if it makes some marginal way to improve their chances of living in the fight.

[Gro'bul]

I use my IG prestige to build the walls to keep the n00b pk'ers out. *locks his door* Gilbert avoids going to TB as much as halflingly possible. Most of the bad rp tends to occur there, as well as pk'er n00bs and the tReasure cRewe tends to hang out there most often too. I think that is fear, my char got robbed lots of times, and everytime was in TB. But I mean after a while, you have orcs breathing down your neck all the time, distributing beer and armor, ect your character (and player) just gets used to it. Lots of times I felt like I play the only normal character in Illarion who isn't dashing or special or anything. Just someone working to make a living doing what he likes and hanging out.

[Dantagon Marescot]

First off, anyone who ctrl-clicks and says lol when they do so is probably a first time player who we don't want to keep to begin with. If they shape up after a gm talk then maybe... but don't get discuraged by those who are first time players, they aren't part of us... yet...

I have to agree with Andrew. Sometimes it is nice to have peaceful rp where characters aren't out to ruin it. People may have noticed that I am logging in with Dantagon less and less. Only a few know it, but I am logging in with another character more and more. This is because my other character isn't in a position where others will constantly try to destroy a quiet rp in order to start a fight, competition, attack, and various other things.

One of the best rps I have found have been sitting around a campfire, in a tavern, a group of friends sitting around a table and talking. Sitting there and chatting. Not running around pwning people or harrassing those that your character doesn't like ig. It is sitting around and joking with each other ig.

I don't see anything wrong with the occasional OOC comment or well placed joke ig. I don't recomend anyone using a loud OOC in a group of people who are trying to rp. Sometimes when a small group gets together the OOC comments can make the situation so much more fun. But these are small groups who don't mind the OOC together as a group. Nothing is wrong with a little OOC ig. Just keep it to where it should be, and avoid it in quests if possible.

Also I think the only reason that part of a quest should take place away from Bane is because sometimes people don't wish to partisipate. Today if the quest was held in the harbor, of course people would show up at the harbor. However, at the same time this means that people in Bane who do not want to deal with this quest wouldn't be bothered by it. I don't think all quests should avoid Bane, but I don't think that all need to include it either.

I do however applaud Estralis for stating where quest safe zones are.

[Alytys Lamar]

Well ... I read this thread and think all this reasons which was mentioned are the reason I don't play actually.

I have seen coming up this situation a long time before ... it is the difficult balancing act to create all the fun of the game AND to give to ALL players. And I agree heartily with Lrmy and the others ...

No fear IG to die, less interest in RP, too much Chars around who thinking they are evil and its cool to be evil and the #me's are partly horrible.

OOC has ever influenced this game unfortunaly. Seems not possible to let this complete outside.

[Nitram]

Ah yes. One of those "everything suxx" topics again. I may forecast that it will change nothing... as usual. Anyway:

Random #me's that do not show actions
Allready this Lrmy, shows that you did not think about what you wrote. You just got annoyed ingame and had to throw out something.
What about #me's that descripe a character? The way he looks like. No actions as well.

Other Emotes like that do not descripe actions are funny if they are seldom I think. Those emotes come up in ALL roleplay focused games. And is this really something that has to cause a flame war? I think not.

Emotes like that "#me is stupid" are in general done by newbies. Hardly from older players.

Jokes Ingame
That depends on the characters. I think thats just something you can just handle ingame, can't you. Characters who do jokes after jokes after jokes could just handled as slightly crazy ingame. I think that would solve those problems easily.

No one has any fear in game.
Yep. But from my point of view there is no way to change this. What would make a player acting feared with his character? Beside of harder punishments in case the character dies? I sadly can't think of anything.
To change this the whole mentality of some players has to change. But thats something every player has to do on its own. Noone else can do this.

People just ignore(completely) the people/PO's they dislike in game.
Dunno. Some told me allready that they get ignored as disliked player ingame. But I never was able to see this live happening ingame. But it hardly can be worser then some ignoring new players who do not roleplay perfectly.

Use of OOC info.
Yeah yeah. Everyone does it, noone likes it. How to change it? Start at yourself!

Nitram

[Noradur]

Ah yes. One of those "everything suxx" topics again. I may forecast that it will change nothing... as usual. Anyway:

I think this is more a "certain things make everything suck"-topic, and its quite hard to disagree with those certain things he named.

Random #me's that do not show actions
Allready this Lrmy, shows that you did not think about what you wrote. You just got annoyed ingame and had to throw out something.
What about #me's that descripe a character? The way he looks like. No actions as well.

Other Emotes like that do not descripe actions are funny if they are seldom I think. Those emotes come up in ALL roleplay focused games. And is this really something that has to cause a flame war? I think not.

Emotes like that "#me is stupid" are in general done by newbies. Hardly from older players.

The sad thing is, i experienced this emotes way too often from older players. I could list names, if that would be necessary to prove it, but as long nobody says: "Oh? Who then?" i won't tend to point a finger at people.

Jokes Ingame
That depends on the characters. I think thats just something you can just handle ingame, can't you. Characters who do jokes after jokes after jokes could just handled as slightly crazy ingame. I think that would solve those problems easily.

THe sad thing about it is, that those jokes are often ooc-related. I dont say "dont joke" but i do say "dont destroy the atmosphair". Lrmy's comment, we are way past 6th grade is pretty well describing what goes wrong about thsoe jokes. People can joke, but sometimes it would be waaay cooler if they look for a nudge that is appropiate to cause a lol.
Unfortunatley most "jokers" just take any slightest chance to be funny. And this aint saturday comdedy night, but illarion, a game which was supposed to have a mystical and magical atmosphair and not benny hill show.

No one has any fear in game.
Yep. But from my point of view there is no way to change this. What would make a player acting feared with his character? Beside of harder punishments in case the character dies? I sadly can't think of anything.
To change this the whole mentality of some players has to change. But thats something every player has to do on its own. Noone else can do this.

/signed with a sad look on my face.

People just ignore(completely) the people/PO's they dislike in game.
Dunno. Some told me allready that they get ignored as disliked player ingame. But I never was able to see this live happening ingame. But it hardly can be worser then some ignoring new players who do not roleplay perfectly.

haven't experienced that either, neither as a player nor as gm

Use of OOC info.
Yeah yeah. Everyone does it, noone likes it. How to change it? Start at yourself!

Nitram

Start at yourself

big fat huge red /signed with blue dots

[Dariya]

Later in the quest, when that guy, who was a complete stranger to almost 100% of the characters told them to follow, almost none of the characters showed the slightest bit of distrust, but just followed him without any questions.

/signed
that was the point when I left, thinking: what the heck, nobody wants to know, who that guy is telling them "Everyone wanting to fight til death follow me now" ... there was one person who asked something like "Who are you anyway" and some other questions were asked, but not answered, but well, I decided not to follow that quest further, period.

In my opinion you find both "relaxed" and "exiting" rolepay. Of course, in Bane, where everyone meets, the chances to find relaxed roleplay are not very good
But me, for my own part, had tons of nice, relaxing, firecamp-roleplay drinking gallons of beer lately and I had fun with it.
Those relaxed rps were sometimes interrupted, which was very nice as well, there was nothing forced, (mainly) no ooc/ig mixing, it was really good, and I may add, it wasn't only once.

I don't know what you expect. Everyone defines roleplay somehow different, try to make the best of it, stop moaning. But the main point is, which I said already before: if you are angry, totally frustrated, annoyed, depressed, whatever, don't go ingame and expect others to cheer you up stay away fom illa during that state and you'll enjoy the other times you log in.

well, didn't intend to write that much *shrugs*

[Noradur]

basically you are totally right.

There is a lot of good rp in Illarion STILL. But slowly i see it more and more becoming worse.. Maybe i am paranoid but i believe it would be a big loss if we loose the quality of roleplay more and more..

But it all fails at one point..

YOu said:

Everyone defines roleplay somehow different, try to make the best of it, stop moaning.

Thats not completley right. Yeah everybody roleplays different, but it should be based on one and the same definition of roleplay. Which definition? The definition of illarion of course. Keeping by the exact rules and using them as guidelines instead of limits, would guide Rp to a common definition which ends up in awesome moments and appealing atmosphair and situations with releaxxed roleplay, as well as excited roleplay.

For the rest i totally agree with you, that if you are not in a good mood, no one is to be blamed if you feel worse after being logged in for some time.

[Dariya]

YOu said:

Everyone defines roleplay somehow different, try to make the best of it, stop moaning.

Thats not completley right. Yeah everybody roleplays different, but it should be based on one and the same definition of roleplay. Which definition? The definition of illarion of course. Keeping by the exact rules and using them as guidelines instead of limits, would guide Rp to a common definition which ends up in awesome moments and appealing atmosphair and situations with releaxxed roleplay, as well as excited roleplay.

hm, my fault, of course the "definition" of roleplay does not differ, but the definition of "good" roleplay, which depends on the phantasy of each single player, the ability to put in words what s/he's thinking, the ability and will to react on others roleplay ... but anyway, of course you are right

[Korm Kormsen]

a lot of thoughts.
no solutions.

for some points mentioned there might be tecnical solutions.

1) my "favorite" annoyance:
the big number of criminals.
there is no way, to evade players, having "evil" chars.
1.a)possible solution, to give a restricted number of lives to every char.
(but that would hit the victims even harder.)
1.b)create "fightfree" zones. the only way, i can think of, would be with aggressive NPC guards (Baldur's Gate style)

2) ooc abuse:
2.a) build an incorporated badwordlist. put some modern words in it (f.ex: baseball, TV, car, Fussball...) and let the mashine lower a random skill if one of those is used.

well, my mind strays now. i'm thinking about work. so, maybe, i'll come up with more ideas at anoter time.

[Llama]

What we need, is a bunch of small punishments with the GMs to enforce them brutally. Sure, people get banned for doing horrible things, but it doesn't mean people who disturb the Rp enviroment shouldn't get a slap on the wrist...

Regarding Point 1: Example:

[A] thinks JAson is better, kruxx is a SILLY NAME
thinks Kruxx is better. Jason is a silly name
[C] doesn't appear to care

Seriously....

(just for the record C is me...)

[pharse]

Concerning improving RP, just a little light at the end of hopelessness:

What about a "Roleplay workshop"? GMs and seers pick some good roleplayers and ask them to teach players who has been picked by GMs and seers too.

I don't mean some long essay about awesome roleplay, rather learning by doing. I think many players have no chance to improve because there is no one better around.

[Dariya]

Concerning improving RP, just a little light at the end of hopelessness:

What about a "Roleplay workshop"? GMs and seers pick some good roleplayers and ask them to teach players who has been picked by GMs and seers too.

I don't mean some long essay about awesome roleplay, rather learning by doing. I think many players have no chance to improve because there is no one better around.

I do that every time I encounter a new player ig ... and I guess I am not the only one

[martin]

The quality of roleplay was at its maximum at the very beginning of Illarion, about 2001, and decreases tremendously ever since. Seen from every week since then, RP will be close to zero next week.
So, once again, next week, RP will be completely gone. Like it was last week and the week before and... well. In every week.

Things are going down. Always. Constantly. Things are getting worse. Constantly.

Aren't we a really good analogon to the real world? Even the ancient greek philosophers complained about the youth and morals going down. Well, they're dead since some thousand years now and humankind still exists.

This posting will, again, not change anything. First of all, they are much to general. "Oh, well, things are bad. Please play better."
Noone will ever refer that to him or herself. Talk to these players, try to make them understand rather then posting general complaints on the forums.
If X does something you believe to be stupid, TELL HIM. In a nice and friendly way. Tell him in a way that he can accept it.

The most annoying things about Illarion's players is, in my opinion, this way of acting. You're asuming that YOUR style of playing is THE STYLE to play this game. First of all, others might have more fun playing slightly different. Secondly, you can't expect new players to act like professional roleplayers.

Please forget your elitist behaviour. It pisses people off.

Martin

[Estralis Seborian]

Well, I just want to add some words. For the more or less big quests that involve more than a hand picked group and might be relevant for all chars, I declare quest free zones, as requested in the past. Nobody is forced to partizipate in any event and I think it is good that some characters leave events instead of disturbing it with unnecessary jokes or OOC.

To me, it appears that many go like "OMG quest!!! I have to go their! phat loot lol! Monsters! Fight!111". Many players abandon their usual roleplay and follow the plot like sheep to the shambles. Plots are regarded linear because GMs tend to offer at least one way "out of the mess", it would be nice if players think about other ways, too.

I can count the bans I declared for actual ingame actions of non-noobs with the fingers of one hand, until recently. I never had to throw out characters out of a quest by banning them for destructive behaviour before, but as it seems, the days have changed. Yesterday, it was two in a row, with me being rather tolerant to small remarks here and there. This makes me really, really sad, to be honest. So, fellow players, pull yourself together and help making this game a better one.

[Noradur]

The quality of roleplay was at its maximum at the very beginning of Illarion, about 2001, and decreases tremendously ever since. Seen from every week since then, RP will be close to zero next week.
So, once again, next week, RP will be completely gone. Like it was last week and the week before and... well. In every week.

Things are going down. Always. Constantly. Things are getting worse. Constantly.

Aren't we a really good analogon to the real world? Even the ancient greek philosophers complained about the youth and morals going down. Well, they're dead since some thousand years now and humankind still exists.

This posting will, again, not change anything. First of all, they are much to general. "Oh, well, things are bad. Please play better."
Noone will ever refer that to him or herself. Talk to these players, try to make them understand rather then posting general complaints on the forums.
If X does something you believe to be stupid, TELL HIM. In a nice and friendly way. Tell him in a way that he can accept it.

The most annoying things about Illarion's players is, in my opinion, this way of acting. You're asuming that YOUR style of playing is THE STYLE to play this game. First of all, others might have more fun playing slightly different. Secondly, you can't expect new players to act like professional roleplayers.

Please forget your elitist behaviour. It pisses people off.

Martin

I personally dont think that this posts are general, they name particulair happenigs what spoils the atmosphair in illarion. I dont believe that illarion is going down next week.
but the atmosphair imho is definatly worse than .. lets say last year.

Besides, it might sound arrogant but i am almost certain that my style of roleplay (and i mean when i am playing a character) is at least never destroying the atmosphair within illarion.
Furthermore, i think destroying the atmosphair of others rp, should be accepted/ allowed, to roleplay newbies only.
Nobody expects newbies act like proffessional roleplayers, but is it too much to expect them to know what this game is about?

What do you mean by playing slightly different?
Playing by the rules, but moving close to the borders or even slightly crossing some from time to time, is totally okay..
AS LONG as you dont destroy others atmosphair .. act responsible and stay in your role.

And again i am not about the newbies here.. Newbies need to learn from older players, but how should we improve their rp if (some) older players aren ot acting responsible?

Nobody is being an elitist. Besides Elitist behavior was mentioned aswell.
People who ignore others rp, because its not good enough for them are elitists..

[martin]

Nobody expects newbies act like proffessional roleplayers, but is it too much to expect them to know what this game is about?

It indeed and of course is! Definitely!

What do you mean by playing slightly different?

A certain group of self-proclaimed elitist RPers believes that everything except standing around and talking is bad RP.
Everything different from that is considered at least "doubtful" RP.

Nobody is being an elitist.

Unfortunately, there are many pseudo-elitist players in Illarion. I disagree therefore.

Martin