Illarion.org

What about introducing horses into illarion which can be a better version of the pack cow so it costs more (i realsie cows have just been implemented im talking way into the future) also if possable you could ride the horse ofcourse it would have to have a limited ammout of strength and agility depending on total weight of player and goods but what does everyone think of the general idea?

General idea: good
Proposal: useless

Do you think the staff did not think about something like this a long time before allready?

That kind of proposal is not needed, since its not even slightly detailed about HOW to realize this at all. Its just such a "oh he, horses to ride would be cool"-proposals.
If you propose something, think about how to do this. Look at the proposals of Hadrian. Even they are really hard to realize often, they show that he thinks about what he proposes. He does not stop thinking at "oh he, this or that would be cool". You do.

Horses are impressive hard to include since they need a lot of more graphics then we have currently. Every character graphic would need a graphic on a horse. And since we have not 20 graphic designers, this won't be done really soon.

Nitram

Okay.

I told Nitram to reopen this topic and since he is my slave, he complied.



Now:

The by far biggest issue with horses is the lack of graphics (like my serf previously mentioned. ). As there is no "quick" way of getting the graphics we want, I suggest a temporary work-around. It might seem like a duct-tape fix at first, but really.. should we keep a feature like this (fun for the players, useful, a real money sink) away from the game just because of this? I don't think so. We've had a long track-record with temporary solutions (such as using the "Human" graphic to represent the halflings for.. how long was it? Years? )

So, before our highly regarded team of artists come up with the necessary graphics for horses, we can simply use a second set of the normal character graphics with a big, fat, neon-green "H" visible underneath them, describing that they are riding on a horse. As the actual graphics are made, we can gradually begin to replace these "temporary" graphics with new ones.

Okay, on to horses.

Some basic theory:
1.0) Horses are a good that the NPC's have a monopoly on.
1.2) Under certain sitiuations, the horses are "consumable goods" meaning, that you can lose your horse should some conditions apply. -> You have to buy a new one (see: 2.1). (Thus the leakage of money out of economy is increased)
1.3) Due to 1.2, the horses are not priced too steeply. The point is that the thing is used and even quite regularly. So the price of a horse could be, 50-100% that of an "Okay" armor. 10-20 Silver coins is what I had on my mind. Max. (If they are too expensive, people won't use them when they risk loosing them..)
1.4) Horses are useful for players (and against other players). This encourages their use. If the players can feel the benefits, and especially if they know that using a horse gives benefits to other players.. they will purchase and use them.
1.5) Horses are only usable in the basic level of the map. No using of horses underground, or "upper floors" (due to the advantages logically not really being useful there).

Horses a battle:
2.0) You cannot unmount a horse while in combat (Or you can, but the 2.1 rule applies for some time after the combat.. )
2.1) 2.0 is due to the fact that when you mount a horse and die, there is X-change (high, ~90%) of losing the horse. If the horse exists as an icon in inventory (see: 5.2) then the the player would have a smaller (25-50%) chance of losing it in the case he dies while not mounting the horse.

Okay, the advantages of horses:

3.1) Horses reduce the amount of stamina-loss you experience due to walking around by 75%
3.2) Horses make you move around a bit faster (not so much on the normal ground, in order to keep the distances as "long".. but they could have better speed over "bad" terrain)
3.3) Horses give you (noticeably) more hitpoints (as such a large animal is likely to absorb some hits that were ment for you)
3.4) You hit with (noticeably) more damage and accuracy from above. (Perception is increased, strenght is increased, dex is increased)
3.5) 3.4 Advantages are bigger against unmounted opponents.

Disadvantages of horses:
4.0) You make a bigger target for archers. Increased chance to hit and damage for throwing/arrow weapons.
4.1) As you can see, the actual disadvantages are (very) few in my idea.. just for the sake of encouraging people to *spend* money on these.

Problems I could come up with and possible solutions:
5.1) How/where the horse is mountable?
5.2) Where it is while you are not riding it? (Inventory a la WoW would be the handiest, I suppose.. but that could lead into "cheesy" sitiuations where you just magically hop on the horse out of the blue..)
5.3) Is there any other way of doing that than the inventory?
5.4) One possibility would be "horse only" depots (the medieval bicycle-rack ) where the horse would have to be 'stored' while not using. That would lead to funny sitiuations in the wilderness though, for the lacking ability to unmount.

Misc:
6.0) Lizards, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings and Faeries have less advantages with horses due to physical reasons alone.
6.1) The degree of these could vary, but I think lizards should finally get some stick instead of carrots. (Eg, I would possibly go as far as to forbid Lizzies from riding completely. The horses would probably agree.)
6.2) Perhaps the smaller races should be restricted to a weaker (and cheaper) version (called surprisingly "pony") which would be available for the others as well?

Does this sound better, my serf?

soooo much better than me just putting the basic idea thanks ill remember this in the future

Sounds good to me. As you said, a "depot only for horses" (stable) would solve the storing problem. You should also be able to unmount in the wilderness though, but then it could of course be stolen (cow graphics?)
I do not agree that you should do noticeable more damage from the back of a horse though, except for first hit, which would happen in great speed. (lets get lances too:) ) If we make horses we would also need a riding skill, which should be taught by a teacher. This should mean some nice rp, as well as making getting a horse a little harder.

I dont mind to much if the horsre graphis sucks, but I supose even making the skill would take a long time, so this is far into the future. Would be awesome though:D

Suggested Appendages:

2.3) There is a skill called mounted combat, which determines the bonus you get when mounted. In the beginning it should be -ve (take a penalty) but then work out to be a good bonus

3.6) Some weapons get an extra bonus when used on horseback: Spears, Lances, Longswords

4.2) A horse will need to be fed from time to time.
4.3) People using weapons with reach, do extra damage to you (a halberd would eat you)

6.1) Agreed
6.2) I'd prefer if orcs rode wolves (giant wolves?) would appear more in character, I'd see an orc eat a horse to be honest.

Apart from the lacking graphics, how do you want to solve that the maximum walking speed is limited by the connection speed?

Anyway, I have been thinking about this topic and maybe there is another method to provide a fast way of transportation. How about JUS TAUR KEL QWAN, a spell that continuously teleports a character into a certain direction over X tiles as long as no walls or other obstacles that are not ment to be crossed (e.g. water) are in the way? Teleporting would stop upon the player hitting an arrow key or doing any kind of action.

For all non-mages, such a spell could be provided in the form of a scroll that can be bought from NPCs. Of course, something like this could be very powerful, and abusable. And I am not sure wether I want to see dozends of chars warping around the map, with no chance to interact with them. It is an alternative, even though I would not suggest to implement it.

Hmm, I just thought about another very simple method to make walking less annoying, let me test it...

Just a quick thought and not sure if it is doable....... what about the horses walking as other chars on the road........but if in grass or forest or mud, instead of slowing down...... the horse would be able to still walk as fast?

((PS... I envision the orc... with the panthers LOL))

Well, I dont think faster movement is a must to implement horses. Just mounted combat and stuff would make it worth it. Also as both Achae and Cromwell proposed, the movement speed on rough ground could be higher.
@graphics: I dont mind at all if the horse doesnt really look like a horse.

use deer

Taliss Kazzxs wrote:use deer

No, Moose.

Mr. Cromwell wrote: 6.1) The degree of these could vary, but I think lizards should finally get some stick instead of carrots. (Eg, I would possibly go as far as to forbid Lizzies from riding completely. The horses would probably agree.)

lizards can ride big ass lizards!