Reminder / Erinnerung: PvP (german/english)

[Estralis Seborian]

Der Kampf Spieler gegen Spieler („PvP“) ist auf Illarion uneingeschränkt möglich und nicht verboten. Jeder Charakter darf andere Charaktere, soweit technisch möglich, angreifen. Aufgrund vielfacher Beschwerden, dass es gerade in hitzigen Kampfsituationen zu Regelverstößen kommt, möchte der Staff alle Spieler darauf hinweisen, dass Illarion ein Rollenspiel und kein Hack n' Slash-Spiel ist. Die Serverregeln verbieten unter anderem folgendes Verhalten:

1. Angreifen von offensichtlich neuen Spielern
2. Ausloggen während eines Kampfes
3. Angreifen anderer Charaktere ohne die Möglichkeit der Interaktion
3. Kämpfen ohne Emotes
4. Ausnutzen von Spielschwächen wie das Fliehen in Gebäudeschatten zum eigenen Vorteil
5. Sofortige Wiederaufnahme eines Kampfes nach der Wiederbelebung – dies gilt auch für den Getöteten

Weiterhin verbieten das Gebot der Fairness und die Serverregeln bei Gruppenkonflikten beispielsweise:

1. Anzetteln von größeren Kämpfen oder Schlachten ohne Terminvereinbarungen der Spieler
2. Aktionen gegen Eigentum oder Einrichtungen einer Gruppe, wenn diese abwesend ist
3. Verwendung von Zusatzprogrammen wie Instant-Messengern zur Erlangung eines Vorteils
4. Ausspionieren anderer Gruppen durch eigene Zweitcharaktere
5. Verwendung von Zweitcharakteren zur Erhöhung der eigenen Kampfkraft oder für taktische Manöver

Bitte denkt immer daran, dass Illarion ein Spiel ist, welches davon lebt, dass alle Spieler zusammenspielen, nicht gegeneinander. Die Konflikte der Charaktere sind nicht die Konflikte der Spieler und sollen auch nicht zu solchen werden. Nur wenn andere Spieler als Mitspieler und nicht als Gegner betrachtet werden, kann ein Spiel wie Illarion funktionieren.

Der Staff behält sich vor, die nötigen Strafen gegen Spieler zu verhängen, die sich wiederholt nicht an die Regeln halten, um den Spielspaß für alle sicherzustellen.

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Fighting player versus player (PvP) is possible everywhere and not forbidden on Illarion. Every character may attack any character if technically possible. Due to many complaints that rules are broken in heated up fighting situations, the staff wants to point something out. Illarion is a roleplaying game and not a hack n' slash game. The server rules forbid the following behaviour:

1. Attacking of chars that are obviously new
2. Logging off during a fight
3. Attacking chars without leaving any opportunity to interact
3. Fighting without emotes
4. Abusing of weaknesses of the game for one's own gain (like escaping into building shadows)
5. Continuing of a fight after resurrection (holds for the resurrected one, too)

Furthermore, the rules and fairness forbids the following:

1. Starting of large fights or battles without an appointment of the players
2. Action against property or estates of another absent group
3. Using third party programs like instant messengers for the gain of one's group
4. Spying on other groups with secondary characters
5. Using secondary characters to raise the manpower of a group or for tactical manouvers

Please keep in mind that Illarion works only when all players cooperate. Conflicts between characters are no conflicts between the players and must not become. Only when one regards other players as co-players and not as enemy, Illarion can work the way it is intended.

The staff reserves the right to punish players that do not obey the rules in order to maintain the fun others have playing this game.

[AlexRose]

Just to clear up: If a newbie starts pking you or other people, is it then allowed to kill them?

And are you allowed to illegally enter the land of someone else who isn't online at the time?

[Pellandria]

2. Ausloggen während eines Kampfes

Ist es erlaubt auszuloggen, wenn man von einem Spieler ohne #me's angegriffen wird?

[Estralis Seborian]

Both questions deal with the aspect wether it is allowed to break / bend a rule when somebody else violates a rule and endangers the fun and / or the health of a character.

The best option is to !gm a GM immediatly. Also, when you have to log out in such a situation leave a message like "((Please do not attack without emotes, refer to the rules - bye))" and report your deed to the GMs. You may of course defend your character against offenders, however, try to interact with newbies in any case.

You may enter the land of a group at any time, but in the past, we had cases that some chars "conquered" a whole realm / town because it was empty and celebrated their "success". e.g. if you plan an attack on Varshikar, please notify the POs of the local authorities and arrange an appointment for a battle.

[Mr. Cromwell]

Doesn't the whole "appointment for the battle" potentially kill off the whole element of suprise? I mean, that favours the established and connected groups tremendously.. Guess twice if the group that is under the threat of attack will use their MSN contacts or not to pull of the maximum amount of people for the fight?


"Hey, Bob.. I know you haven't been playing for a while, but we have a battle against the order of the noobs next sunday.. 12 PM GMT.. could you show up for it? Great.."


*sigh*

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Maybe there should be more kind of battle rules:

- Raid - no initial battle declaring must be done. The raiding party is permitted to come and pk, but after must leave the town, not try to take over it.

- Siege - the attack must be declared with at least 2 days before. It ends when all the members of one of the partyes are sent to the cross. If the attackes win, they take over the town (?)

Dunno, ideas?

[Lord Arcia]

My idea of a raid - Declare the attack....a few hours beforehand. This will allow them (the attackers) to actually have someone to fight. Also would allow the defenders to TRY and put up a fight. I'm not sure of how to better explain it.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Agreed, but a raid is more of the element of surprise. Anyway, we all think that even if the fight is declared 5 minutes before it starts, all the defenders will still be there.. God bless MSN

[Evan Ross]

Maybe for Raid, You would need to declare 1 hour before, You could only kill one non-combatant for every member of your raiding party, And you could not take more then 30 minutes.
Siege is more or less fine, But maybe like, A 3 hour time limit or something?

[Mr. Cromwell]

Oh please god, let's not make it even more complicated. The whole event otherwise turns into a huge goddamn mess of rule-lawyering and flamewars on the boards afterwards.

"You killed seven even though there were only six of you!"
"But bob logged out in the middle, so we were actually seven.."
"Logger!"
"Yeah, and to be precise.. the attack lasted 3 hours fifteen minutes.. unfair!!!"

And so on..

I would go with max: The raid must be announced (30-60 min) beforehand, but the exact location doesn't have to be told.

[Evan Ross]

Oh please god, let's not make it even more complicated. The whole event otherwise turns into a huge goddamn mess of rule-lawyering and flamewars on the boards afterwards.

I would go with max: The raid must be announced (30-60 min) beforehand, but the exact location doesn't have to be told.

That sounds good

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

And the clouded chars to not be able to leave the cross. Maybe a nice script that is activated during the raid/siedge and that paralyses chars that get resurected. This way, the good guys can arrest the badyies left behind lol

[Estralis Seborian]

Pardon me, but Illarion is not a strategy game. It is about roleplaying. Thus, if you do a battle, the main objective is to roleplay, not to pwn the other clan.
You may make up your own rules for battles OOC, but there won't be a server rule - Illarion will not turn into a strategy game.

The problem with large scale battles is that in the past, most events resulted in endless flame wars and lots of pissed off players. So, keep in mind that you play with the other players, not against them.

Concerning the surprise-effect: The characters will be surprised even though the players are not. If you want to start a battle, you have to make sure the opposing force is online. The easiest way is to contact some players and tell them about your plans OOC.

[Evan Ross]

The problem with large scale battles is that in the past, most events resulted in endless flame wars and lots of pissed off players. So, keep in mind that you play with the other players, not against them.

Temple.

[Karl]

"Evan", with all my respect, STFU and don't bring that up again. Thanks.

As for the rest of the thread, I have to agree with Estralis; seems ya'll forgot that Illarion's main goal is to roleplay, not to own lands, houses, castles, etc..
Even though I admit that sometimes, surprise can enhance the roleplaying fun. So how about warning the opposing force that there will be a roleplay situation at this hour in this town, without anymore detail, if it'll be offensive, or simply a leader coming in to talk, etc..?

[AlexRose]

Maybe there should be more kind of battle rules:

- Raid - no initial battle declaring must be done. The raiding party is permitted to come and pk, but after must leave the town, not try to take over it.

- Siege - the attack must be declared with at least 2 days before. It ends when all the members of one of the partyes are sent to the cross. If the attackes win, they take over the town (?)

Dunno, ideas?

Someone's been looking at Dark Age II .

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Yes.. though I don't like the rule with same number of attackers - same number of victims.. sounds stupid IMHO

And Illa is more strategical than you think.. A set battle strategy rule would benefit the game, I guess.

[Lrmy]

1. Starting of large fights or battles without an appointment of the players

What is considered a large fight? And this rule makes no sense OOC or IC.

Larger group will always win these (players have the time they need to know when to fight). I know it is not the objective to win. But if my character was in a faction in game that was to go to war with a town with half the forces, they would do all in their power to avoid a large fight like that.

[Gro'bul]

What is considered a "secondary character"?

[Kevin Lightdot]

"Evan", with all my respect, STFU and don't bring that up again. Thanks.

As for the rest of the thread, I have to agree with Estralis; seems ya'll forgot that Illarion's main goal is to roleplay, not to own lands, houses, castles, etc..
Even though I admit that sometimes, surprise can enhance the roleplaying fun. So how about warning the opposing force that there will be a roleplay situation at this hour in this town, without anymore detail, if it'll be offensive, or simply a leader coming in to talk, etc..?

An hour is waaay to little.
There are lots of people who can't come on at each time, and so some things should be aranged, otherwise it's simply not so fair that, half the other army can't be there, because they don't know about it.

I wouldn't mind being conquered if the arrangements where made a bit oocly, but if more than half the other army isn't there, while the chars would be, if the PO's knew, that would just suck.


Uhm... and Grobby, I think they mean simply another of your chars.
Like, Varshikar would be going to war with Trollsbane, Kevin is for Varshikar, and I would log on with another char to find out stuff about Trollsbane, and then Kevin would suddenly, magically know them.

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

That's called metagaming.

You miss the point of a raid.. it's not to fight all the opposing army, but to fight a small group, maybe only kill civilians and make a run for it.

[Estralis Seborian]

And this rule makes no sense OOC or IC.

It's not a rule. It is an act of fairness. Let me stress this even more - if your characters decide to e.g. conquer Varshikar, it makes no sense if you assemble a force of 10 characters, march there, pwn 1 character present there and claim you conquered the whole realm. Next night, 10 Varshikarian characters reconquer the realm at 3:00 am... I guess you get what I mean. We are not talking about small scale clashes between groups, but major, storyline affecting events. What I'd also suggest is to ask for GM-supervision for such events.

Keep in mind that it is considered good RP if you plan something OOC with an opposing faction that includes temporary defeat of the faction that does not CTRL-click better than the other force.

What is considered a "secondary character"?

Any character of yours aside the character involved directly in the conflict. Some players tended to create characters to reinforce a group, them being also members of this group. I regard this crappy persona playing.

[Salathe]

Hmmm.. I dont quite understand #3

Attacking chars without leaving any opportunity to interact

[Estralis Seborian]

Walking up to a char, typing "#me attacks" and CTRL-click without any roleplaying.

-> Change of the whole situation without leaving any opportunity to interact

Not treated: Attacks during a battle or a situation that dealt with violent actions already

[Damien]

Very important are "warning-" emotes before fighting to leave the other player a chance to react and perhaps even avoid a fight by talk (example : "#me draws a sharp looking sword and steps back, eying the human cautiously", then, wait for a reaction).
If you cannot emote much during a short fight because there is too much hectic involved, that's understandeable. In longer fights, the one or other emote is good style.

[Talaena Landessi]

Maybe there should be more kind of battle rules:

- Raid - no initial battle declaring must be done. The raiding party is permitted to come and pk, but after must leave the town, not try to take over it.

- Siege - the attack must be declared with at least 2 days before. It ends when all the members of one of the partyes are sent to the cross. If the attackes win, they take over the town (?)

Dunno, ideas?

Someone's been looking at Dark Age II .

Nothing wrong with DAII, tis a very good roleplay shard. Funny enough, there are no flamewars when people play on the rules...probably becouse they ban any cry babies that ruin the fun for other people... Go figure Oh...and people who have multiple accounts >.>

[Halvdan]

3. Verwendung von Zusatzprogrammen wie Instant-Messengern zur Erlangung eines Vorteils

Hierzu hab ich mal ne Frage. Ich würde sowas als ganz schlechtes RP auslegen, falls man miteinander chattet per, ICQ...etc...und man dann dem Partner erzählt das man niedergeschlagen wird, wenn man den Anderen herausgefordert hat. Aber ich glaube sowas können Gamemaster nur schlecht nachweisen, nicht wahr?

[Caldrion Sternenglanz]

ich sag es mal so: die andere seite macht es auch *SFG*

Ich musste das auch mal machen, da ich

A: keine Zeit hatte, denn ich musste arbeiten gehen

B: es so Rpg-mäßig stimmiger war, denn wenn jemand des weges geht und das dann sieht und ein(an)greift, ist es besser, als wenn der Char wegläuft und in der näcshten Ecke ausloggt, damit der PO nicht zu spät zur Arbeit kommt.

[Halvdan]

Nun, dann solltest du das zeitlich besser planen und nich auf'm letzten Drücker ins Spiel gehen, wenn es sich nichtmal lohnt.

[Estralis Seborian]

Es ist hiermit ganz klar gemeint, dass OOC-Informationen ausgetauscht werden, um dem eigenen Char einen Vorteil zu verschaffen, der keinem rollenspielerischen Zweck dient. Im alten Client, als die Koordinaten noch sichtbar waren, kam es zu recht üblen Szenen, in denen "Bewegungen" ihre Mitglieder auf direktem Wege per MSN koordinierten und zielgerichtet Punkte auf der Karte ansteuerten.

Es geht nicht darum, dass man sich per MSN verabredet ("Hey, ich bin in Greenbriar, keiner da. Komm doch mal her.") oder sogar eine Gilde zusammentrommelt ("Heute abend Schlägerei in der Taverne! Kommt alle!") - es geht um Counter Strike Methoden, die nur darauf abzielen, einen Vorteil zu erlangen, der mit dem Grundgedanken des Spiels nicht vereinbar ist.