A rant about wrestling

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:36 pm

Been wanting to complain for ages.

A few days ago, I was minding my own buisiness, when i was attacked by a n00b; who just ctrl + clicked me with a sword.

Now, I'm not complaining about n00bs, I'm complaining about the fact that when he decided to run away (since i attacked back), my health bar was very very low.

Now, I was wearing light hunt armor, and the starter leggings; and fighting unarmed, while he was (I assume) wearing the starting gear for fighter.

Now, my wrestling skill is a teal colour, which is a moderate amount really.

Am i SUPPOSED to be an even match for a person with n00b slashing skills?

I think the wrestling damage needs to be increased, big time.

End.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:26 pm

Yes, your bare hands should stop a razor sharp, two foot or more, piece of metal.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:57 pm

Am i SUPPOSED to be an even match for a person with n00b slashing skills?

Nope

Gildon de Vymont · Post by **Gildon de Vymont** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:34 pm

The Returner wrote:Yes, your bare hands should stop a razor sharp, two foot or more, piece of metal.

And who said Illarion was ever realistic?

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:51 pm

I don't know much about the specifics of the fighting system but,

Umm...actually Lizards should get an increase to wrestling skill because of their natural 'leather' armor as well as fangs and teeth.

Why does everyone have to use a *smile* sword?

Personally, I prefer the bow because of my high dexterity and short stature.

I think different weapons and fighting styles should have balancing effects if they are in line with a dominant attribute or race.

i.e. Wrestling - Lizards & Orcs get a bonus, High Stamina/strength get a bonus to damage.

Archery - Rangers, Fairies, Elves and High Dex get bonuses to damage.

Puncture weapons - Thieves, Halflings, Gnomes and high Agility get bonus to damage.

Concussion weapons - Druids and Mages get bonus to damage.

Just some thoughts.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:51 pm

Silas Farron wrote:
Yes, your bare hands should stop a razor sharp, two foot or more, piece of metal. Rolling Eyes
There are martial arts techniques focussing on fighting against armed opponents.

Indeed.. and you don't really have to hit the stongest part of the armor with your fists do you? There are joints and weak spots. And maybe even if you are expert enough, you can apply hits in certain points, with such power, that the shock may damage the internal organs.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:06 pm

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:
Silas Farron wrote:
Yes, your bare hands should stop a razor sharp, two foot or more, piece of metal. Rolling Eyes
There are martial arts techniques focussing on fighting against armed opponents.
Indeed.. and you don't really have to hit the stongest part of the armor with your fists do you? There are joints and weak spots. And maybe even if you are expert enough, you can apply hits in certain points, with such power, that the shock may damage the internal organs.

In real life there is no way to beat a man equpied with a sword, if you fight barehanded yourself. But Illa is not suposed to be realistic I supose. Maybe one could have some restrictiopns on where one could bring a sword for example? Then fists would be more usefull.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:06 pm

What? ever heard of martial arts?

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:07 pm

Lol, I have even practised them a little;):P Jet Lee movies are not real ye know;)

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:13 pm

- Spam deleted -

Arien

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:14 pm

In RL, if you try fighting someone armed with a sword while you only have fists, you have nearly no chances, even though armed opponents are armored, their mobility might be reduced but NOT their striking speed. Its about impossible to even get close enought to even attempt to hit the opponent because he will hit you before you reach him with fast paced hits, if you think that an average wresler agaisnt an average swordsman in RL have a chance, well sorry but youre either a ***** Take care of your words - Arien - or you didnt think very long.

However, I do agree wresling should have more impact in the game, even though it dosent in RL we should make it ig so that maybe an experienced wresler have a chance agaisnt an average fighter (though we would need to fix dodge and make light armor any use before so). Wresling should be at least fair but only once the character is very skilled with it, 0 to 50 skill it should be useless agaisnt an armed opponent.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:14 pm

- Spam deleted -

Arien

Lance Thunnigan · Post by **Lance Thunnigan** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:19 pm

Silas Farron wrote:You all have no Idea. There are techniques MADE to be able to defend against weapons, for example swords. They are effective and pwn.
Just because you all are weak fatbags, your "skills" don't apply to everyone

We get your point, and Arameh's point as well. We had almost the exact same argument on Barehands Vs. Swords and it turned into a flamewar.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:19 pm

Seriously. i doubt even Jet Lee could take me if I had a sword, and a few weeks to train with it. But Illa is not suposed to be realistic. For example: In real life, armor was hardly ever used when the longbow became popular, as it made no diference anyway.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:24 pm

I think that the longbow was introduced exactly for fighing against heavy armored oponents. It was the only weapon that could pierce trough the armor.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:25 pm

Allmost all piercing weapons could do that. Arrow=death

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:28 pm

Not exactly.. The avaradge piercing weapon didn't had enough force to pierce trough the strongest metal armor.

Force = mass x accelaration

The long bow was the only weapon that could provide enough acceleration for the arrow to actually allow it to break the iron. That it is because of the high amount of preasure that the cord did upon the back of the arrow. It is a fact that only very strong men were able to use a long bow.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:36 pm

Actually, crossbows were more than capable of punching through armor.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:42 pm

Found these things:

[…] in the war against the Welsh, one of the men of arms was struck by an arrow shot at him by a Welshman. It went right through his thigh, high up, where it was protected inside and outside the leg by his iron cuirasses, and then through the skirt of his leather tunic; next it penetrated that part of the saddle which is called the alva or seat; and finally it lodged in his horse, driving so deep that it killed the animal.

As late as 1415, the hail of arrows created by massed ranks of thousands of longbowmen was capable of winning battles against plate armoured French knights at Agincourt.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:42 pm

I belive Taliss has the best wrestling skill currently in the game and I gotta agree. I mean if we refuse to allow parry against weapons I think unarmed should get a big bonus to dodge or have a little more damage getting dished out to make up for it not being able to block which ends us judging the fight off armor and if your using your hands your going to want to wear lighter armor anyway. currenty if you play a metal tank with fists you can survive some one weaker than you. Though if you try to actually go with the monk role play and show off your leathers you just get hacked to peices. *shrugs

edit* also im very greatful for our kind devs adding parry to unarmed vs unarmed, plz dont take it away over this.

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:44 pm

Use a period...

Oh and use gloves/spike gloves.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:44 pm

I think armors were pretty much useless when ranged weapons became popular. But I just brought this up to prove my point. Illa isnt realistic anyway, so we might just as well give unarmed fighters a decent chance.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:13 pm

When it comes down to it there has been many discussions just like this one. Unarmed fighters are not quite worth much just yet so they feel they need a few more perks. The tank fighters feel like it wouldnt be fair if unarmed is any good, because they would be equal to them with out having to spend the coin on the expensive gear. The mages and such dont really give a damn so they just give something of an opinion based on real life history and personal experience. In truth the staff dosnt care about real life past or future they just want to balance the game. In balancing the game they see...fists. Fists do no wear out and you never have to buy new ones, and this can cause problems. The only solution with the current is to agree on a small perk for the unarmed fighters that dosnt piss of the knights and such. My suggestion, lot more dodge chance, or little more damage comming out.

ah and grant

Go. Suck. A. Dwarf. *nods

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:16 pm

Well, archery sure needs to get better. You need just as good gear, but never the less, it sucks.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:02 pm

if you figure in that an unarmed fighter is armed as well, then blocking a blow using an armored part of your body probably would be to hard. despite the fact that you can swing a sword about as quickly armored as unarmored, people seem to underestimate the difference mobility makes in a fight. if you can swing a weapon back and forth quickly, but can't turn/angle/ and spin your body fast enough to cover the full spectrum of places you can be attacked. then you could quite easily be knocked off you feet and even disarmed. what irl knights had going for them is that even if an unarmed oppenent was able to completely Outmaneuver them there wasn't shit they coud do to finish them off.

as to Illarion where nothing has to be realistic, it'd be nice if unarmed skill were made a bit stronger all around. of course it's indivdual strikes should never match in power to the blow from a sword, it'd be nice to see it a bit stronger and a bit faster. a dodging bonus wouldn't hurt either. since we're not allowed to parry weapons. the illar master (note i said master as in high skill wresting+dodge) of martial arts by all rights can be the jet lee 'beat the crap out of everything standing' character. it's a game so theres no reason why not.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:18 pm

I'm not talking about taking on Arameh with my fists, i'm talking about being attacked by a NEWB.

Unarmed fighters are redundant.

Gildon · Post by **Gildon** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:18 pm

Meh, I just train Rankor's wreslting for when RP brawls arise, so I can actually #me knows how to brawl.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:37 pm

Well, ranged weapons certainly have to become a little more potnent.

Rasteel Olin · Post by **Rasteel Olin** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:00 pm

- Spam deleted -

Arien

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:18 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:I'm not talking about taking on Arameh with my fists, i'm talking about being attacked by a NEWB.

Unarmed fighters are redundant.

never had a problem with Azel, he smacks the crap out of newbs with weapons they barely leave a scratch and he uses chain shirts. maybe it's one of your stats that causing the problem? or maybe you need more dodging.