Illarion.org

While at work i was thinking of how i should make my return to the game and with which characters etc, when a thought struck me, and this thought led to this question.

Is it possible to script an NPC to take items from a certain player, and have said player set certain parameters on the items, ill use an example.

Could a person give a NPC *100 daggers and tell the NPC to sell these daggers at (x) Amount. ?

If this is possible, would it not be an idea that people whom own houses and such could pay a certain amount to hire there own NPC, which they could then load with thier wares which they wish to sell. This would then lead to the character whom owns the NPC collection thier earnings when they desire.

The reason i wonder is this could solve many of the trade problems IG, allowing crafters to finally sell wares which others just goto the pure NPC traders for as it means in time people will learn where the player controlled traders are, and if these players are intelligent they would undercut the pure NPC's.

The reason i think this would work is due to the fact that the reason many people do not trade is due to not being able to find other players, and or time zones. It isnt a case that people dont want to trade with other players, its usually a case that it takes some hours planning to actually find the person you wish to trade with.

This would also enhance private businesses for players, and perhaps give reason for others to goto the other towns. And people who do own buildings could allow people to set up thier own shop keeps in said building for a charge.

Also if a tax is set upon an town, could not the tax be taken straight from the NPC into (insert city) funds if the NPC owner agrees upon it.

Well just some thoughts, feel free to tear them apart.

This is possible without any problems. But every server restart and script reload will wipe the items the personal trader got.

That won't work that well currently i fear

Nitram

I *reeeaaaaalllly* like this idea. In fact, I've suggested it or similar things several times in the past.

Also, taking a 'cut' of the sales, would help provide something of a money sink in the economy, because they would sell at the same amount the would have anyway, but a percentage is being taken off, while enabling much more of a *player* run economy instead of NPC-run.

I see, i was about to say that if the server froze the items would be returned to the character in question, but im not sure they would unless it was reset. A shame, as i think this could work quite nicely.

This would KILL off small traders.

Imagine an expert crafter, who can make basic stuff at really cheap prices (because he gets silvers for his good priced goods).

If he's ALWAYS present (because you can get it from the trader), then his competitors won't have a chance.

the end.

The end?

Small traders could sell thier goods to the larger traders, and larger traders would always beat small traders in direct competition, hence why compramises are met. You truely have a narrow vision Hadrian, please think before posting ;]

Let me explain it in another way

Person X is a carpenter, he's an expert carpenter, who can make very good things. In fact, he can afford to sell them at lower prices

Person Y is a new carpenter, he can make plates, and needs to look for someone to buy them so he can get some cash.

-
Person Z is a person who wants to buy 30 plates. If person Y is lucky, person X won't be there when Z looks for the plates, and will by able to sell some plates.

However, if X has a trader (he can afford it), people will prefer to buy the cheaper goods offered, and the new carpenter will end up with no money.

-=---

Get it?

yeah, it is unfair! it is as unfair, as the fact, that good fighters beat weak fighters....

Weak fighters have a chance to beat good fighters, if the good fighter is already hurt

Is anyhow same to that Hadrian was saying.

Korm Kormsen wrote:yeah, it is unfair! it is as unfair, as the fact, that good fighters beat weak fighters....

If the only way for a fighter to get money was to fight other fighters then YES it would be unfair

So the only way the crap craftsman make money is selling defunkt goods to other players? No Hadrian not really.

There are hundreds of possibilities which ill go into on a later date, but i wont argure your point as i think its defunct and none existant ;]

could there not be a traders board *not advertising* and you would have to pay tax to the town you put this board up in also an additional tax to put a board up this could discourage simple advertising

I know this idea is in....other games. I think it would solve Hadrian's complaint. Perhaps we could have a merchant that buys all goods. He/She can then sell them back to players for a set amount. So you can even sell your crappy goods. That way you make off with some money.

Also, would it be possible to link a merchant to your depot. This way the item stays with you untill it is sold. Then the money appears in your depot(the merchant maybe keeps a small bit...5%?). And if you sell the item on your own it will be removed from the NPC's list.

would that not be complicated? then everything in the depot has to have a tag: for sale/notfor sale.

i would see a NPCmerchant with a separated depot as simpler.

I didnt like the idea in genrell....let it stay like it is right now

what if they npc could only sell a very limited amount of items? I don't know how much would be fair, but maybe he could only sell x different items,and could only have x of each one. I can't imagine it destroying the economy that way.

May some of you didn't got it... but that does not work now. The items get wiped with every script reload. No way against.

Nitram

We do get it Nitram, but we can talk theoretically. In time the server will be more stable (hopefully), then it may be possible. Plus you super dev's will surely find a way to make it work. (Maybe making these traders work more like a depot, since the depot doesnt lose items all the time.)

Anyway, possible or not right now, its still a good idea.

And to answer Hadrian, (just for the hell of it ).

Small traders will always be able to sell to the current NPC's to make some fast coin.

Geographically the small trader has an edge. He can move and be in the more popular trade areas. The npc's will be static and in less frquented areas - since they will be in private owned buildings not the public trade areas.

Small traders have no overheads. If they collect their own materials they can sell for any price, because anything they make is profit for them. Larger traders will be paying for the npc, plus the building, plus the merchants cut, etc. (possibly even paying for materials so they dont have to collect the stuff themselves.)

Lastly, why would a master crafstman waste his time making items he can sell for 1 copper (and not gain any skill for making) when he could be making items he could sell for 100's (AND gain skill for making)?

So basically.....no, this would not kill off small traders.

I want to hear what PO Dusty and possibly PO Drex think about this..

PODusty has no time now. he is busy globalizing the economy...

Ok, I think that there is a way around the items getting wiped. A few ideas.
1. The NPC has an inventory like the character. The characters don't lose all their items after a server restart I imagine. And if they do then idea #2 would work well to prevent that from happening as well. It is possible to code something to be sold straight from inventory I would imagine. Of course, I don't completely understand how it works, I'm only just starting to learn java and know only a small amount of Visual Basic so I'm not like a programming genius or anything.
2. Use a timer function to have the server save what items each character NPC is holding every x number of seconds and then have it save the information in a seperate location on the hard drive, overwriting the item save file every time it saves. Every time the server starts up, then it can just load the item save file into the game and all the items would be back like they were. Of course, you still lose the items if you put them in the NPC right after the save and right before the crash, but for the most part, the items would be correctly saved. It seems to me that there isn't any reason this wouldn't work although I don't know everything and it might take a really long time to code, but it looks like if this could work, then it owuld be good to implement since there is such a positive response.

Jori wrote:Ok, I think that there is a way around the items getting wiped.

You don't trust me, eh?

Jori wrote:1. The NPC has an inventory like the character. The characters don't lose all their items after a server restart I imagine.

The NPCs have a inventory. Monsters, NPCs and PC have inventory. Everything that walks around in general. The only problem is that the items of the PC are assigned to the character so they get stored if the character logsout and after this they are not any longer avaiable on the server. A npc never logs out.

Jori wrote:2. Use a timer function to have the server save what items each character NPC is holding every x number of seconds and then have it save the information in a seperate location on the hard drive, overwriting the item save file every time it saves.

Save file is something that is dropped instandly since files are really slow. The Informations would have to been saved in the database, the only problem is the relation to the npc since the number of the npcs change at every restart of the server. Thats the reason that the names do not fit sometimes. So they would exchange their inventory. Not that good too

I don't know exactly the needed amount of work to save the inventory of npcs somewhere in the database. But since that is not even slightly concepted i doubt that only 2 lines are needed.


Nitram

The idea was good if it could actually work

You don't trust me, eh?

I trust you. I just thought that perhaps you didn't think of absolutely everything that could possibly be done.

Save file is something that is dropped instandly since files are really slow.

Yeah, I was kind of worried that might be the case. Only solution I can think of would be a battery-backed RAM drive and I'm sure the server isn't set up with those capabilities so forget that idea. And besides that I imagine the server doesn't have a terribly large amount of RAM to spare on something like this. Oh well, I tried

What about a board/forum where one can tell people what one sell? it would be allmost as good?