So I was roleplaying on Illa tonight with one of my lesser known characters. Well, at this time he decided to have a little talk with someone has had been having trouble with. So he speaks with him, and at one point he makes a move to gently touch the persons chin.
Now, at this point the person got confused on weither my guy had actualy touched him or not. He didn't want forced rp or not. This is due to an earlier inncodent between them where he not only grab my character, but before I could respond he forced pushed him too. And would have continued if I had not warned him.
Anyway, so I wrote "Reaches out to gently touch **** chin." As well as "Tries once more, looking more stern," and "Moves his hand to touch *** chin" This was done because once he swatted at the hand, and twice the PO sat confused as to if he actually touched the characters chin.
While I sat there waiting for a responce to what had happened, he OOCed asked weither my character touched his or not. (That sounds wrong, I know...) I told him that when I use tries, attempts, or something similar sounding, it is up to him weither he wants to go along with it or not. The OOC continued as he still wasn't sure what my chracter was doing. Also warning what would happen if my chracter did complete the action and telling me that it was the worst rp he had ever had. (I almost put it on the best rp board until he complained).
Okay, so after ranting, my question is, what is forced RP on Illa. I understand when someone is rushed in the mist of a battle or chasing some one. But when two or more characters are standing still and role playing, what are the limits on forced RP and how do you keep from doing this?
Forced RP - what are the limits in Illa?
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Dantagon Marescot
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Avalyon el'Hattarr
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Forced rp would be something like..
#me runs a blade through your heart, now you die.
Something that can have a impact on the other char but does not leave him any room or possibilities to react.
From my own experience, if you want to do something like this, add an "attepts" like
#me attepmts to run a blade through your heart.
Forced rp is agaist the rules.
#me runs a blade through your heart, now you die.
Something that can have a impact on the other char but does not leave him any room or possibilities to react.
From my own experience, if you want to do something like this, add an "attepts" like
#me attepmts to run a blade through your heart.
Forced rp is agaist the rules.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Yes, I know that, and I have had experiance with roleplayers in other games who get uber picky about it. They have told me to use 'attempts' as well, which I also used tonight, and it still didn't work. Instead the OOC confusion from him continued even after I told him to stop the OOC and go with the flow.
I just want to clear up what people consiter to be forced rp or not in Illa. Somethings are harder to do in a real time game instead of a turn based one.
I just want to clear up what people consiter to be forced rp or not in Illa. Somethings are harder to do in a real time game instead of a turn based one.
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xEleas
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Avalyon el'Hattarr
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Rugh'toh
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I think parts of forced RP are:
- pushing chars around without any #mes.
- pushing chars around several times one after the other.
- pushing chars down the ladder to the mummie temple without any #mes.
no forced RP is, if there is no opportunity for the pushed char not to get pushed (if he surrounded by people or if he is grabbed).. depends on the situation.
- pushing chars around without any #mes.
- pushing chars around several times one after the other.
- pushing chars down the ladder to the mummie temple without any #mes.
no forced RP is, if there is no opportunity for the pushed char not to get pushed (if he surrounded by people or if he is grabbed).. depends on the situation.
Thats complete humbug! Such actions are not even forced roleplay. Its just no roleplayRugh'toh wrote:I think parts of forced RP are:
- pushing chars around without any #mes.
- pushing chars around several times one after the other.
- pushing chars down the ladder to the mummie temple without any #mes.
Back to topic.
Forced Roleplay, by definition everything you your character does with another character, without giving the other character a chance to reakt.
But, to lower the amount of "try" in the game text a little, we should think about, forced roleplay that is allowed and not allowed.
You should never do forced roleplay, that creates a situation for another character, the player of this other character never wanted or really dislikes.
There is no real definition. Forced roleplay can be used as long as everyone is fine with it, and has fun.
Allways imagin, would it be fine for you, if someone else, does the same thing you are going to do, with your most loved main character.
We all should play in the way (as allways) to keep the fun for all.
AND, for the victims of forced roleplay. Those are allowed to handle the force roleplay actions, ALLWAYS as "tries". So they can #me that they change the situation somehow (not with more forced roleplay
)As i said, keep the fun, sometimes forced roleplay is the "fun", as long as every involved is fine with it.
Nitram
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Rugh'toh
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By using the pushing command (drag&drop of other char) without roleplaying it in any way and without any warning is completely in line with your definition. So I don't see the difference...?Nitram wrote:Thats complete humbug! Such actions are not even forced roleplay. Its just no roleplayRugh'toh wrote:I think parts of forced RP are:
- pushing chars around without any #mes.
- pushing chars around several times one after the other.
- pushing chars down the ladder to the mummie temple without any #mes.
Forced Roleplay, by definition everything you your character does with another character, without giving the other character a chance to reakt.
if you only push someone without any #me then you use only the engine without any rp.
if you write "#me pushes the man away", and use the the pushing function after, you did, by definition forced RP.
This way is the one that is used most and is accepted more or less
the third way would be "#me tries to push the man away" and wait after this till you get something like "#me gets pushed away" from the pushed one. Then you can use the pushing command, or the pushed one steps in the pushing direction or pushes himself.
The third one, is the best way i think, but its not that often used.
The second way is fine, in the most situations.
The first way was allready a reason for longer GM - Player speeches.
Nitram
if you write "#me pushes the man away", and use the the pushing function after, you did, by definition forced RP.
This way is the one that is used most and is accepted more or less
the third way would be "#me tries to push the man away" and wait after this till you get something like "#me gets pushed away" from the pushed one. Then you can use the pushing command, or the pushed one steps in the pushing direction or pushes himself.
The third one, is the best way i think, but its not that often used.
The second way is fine, in the most situations.
The first way was allready a reason for longer GM - Player speeches.
Nitram
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Rugh'toh
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All right, pushing-issue is clear now, i think. 
Another issue, which just comes to my mind when reading your postings is your understanding of RP.
For me, up to now, all actions (if emoted by #mes or actions by using the engine) done by your char belonged to "roleplay".
But if I understand you correctly, only #me-commands are "RP" in the true meaning of the word.
Just to make it clear for me... Following this understanding of "RP", all actions using the engine only are not forced RP. That would mean that:
- attacking another char
- picking up stuff which does not belong to you (=stealing
)
- throwing things around
...all without emoting it, is not forced RP, because it is an opportunity offered by the engine.
Hmm, that is an interesting interpretation of Roleplay.
However, doing the three things written above with your char ig without #mes are not good when playing Illarion. Although they are not foreced RP, they should be avoided... or accompanied by #mes.
Otherwise, the consequences could be the same like for forced RP, in my opinion.
... well, maybe a bit confusing... i shut up now
Another issue, which just comes to my mind when reading your postings is your understanding of RP.
For me, up to now, all actions (if emoted by #mes or actions by using the engine) done by your char belonged to "roleplay".
But if I understand you correctly, only #me-commands are "RP" in the true meaning of the word.
Just to make it clear for me... Following this understanding of "RP", all actions using the engine only are not forced RP. That would mean that:
- attacking another char
- picking up stuff which does not belong to you (=stealing
)- throwing things around
...all without emoting it, is not forced RP, because it is an opportunity offered by the engine.
Hmm, that is an interesting interpretation of Roleplay.
However, doing the three things written above with your char ig without #mes are not good when playing Illarion. Although they are not foreced RP, they should be avoided... or accompanied by #mes.
Otherwise, the consequences could be the same like for forced RP, in my opinion.
... well, maybe a bit confusing... i shut up now
#me attempts to kiss herAscius wrote:Depends on the situation. One doesn't have to write #me attempts to kiss her after a two-hour candle light dinner when both want it.#me kisses her - forced
#me attempts to kiss her - not forced
#me gets kisses
#me slaps his face in.
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@ Rugh: Doing that isn't forced Rp... its no Rp at all, seeing as illarion is a RP game, you can't do that either...
There has to be a certain amount of forced rp that is accepted, otherwise it is just not fun, Illarion is not a text based game, it almost is, but it is not, which means you can do things to people that are forced rp, in reality if someone walked up behind me and pushed me, he would not only attempt but succeed in pushing me, if you are not expecting an action it will always always succeed, it does not matter how many matrix skills your character has.
However as long as you are doing things properly you will never need to write attempts or tries to in your actions.
#me throws a punch at the mans face
#me moves in to kiss her
#me grabs his opponents legs and starts to pull them out from under him.
Forced rp has to be accepted to a certain extent and to be fair the only times I am concerned that is forced RP is #me kills you, #me stabs you in the face #me pushes you against a wall and rips your clothes off.
However as long as you are doing things properly you will never need to write attempts or tries to in your actions.
#me throws a punch at the mans face
#me moves in to kiss her
#me grabs his opponents legs and starts to pull them out from under him.
Forced rp has to be accepted to a certain extent and to be fair the only times I am concerned that is forced RP is #me kills you, #me stabs you in the face #me pushes you against a wall and rips your clothes off.
Sure forced RP has to be accepted in some ways, it all depends on the situation.
If I am the player of X who is like 200KG and 6 feets tall, with the player of Y which is some 40KG elfess, and I do a #me pushes the elfess away. Dont PO Y ever tell me it was forced RP, I will simply laughs at it, since there was no possibility for the small elfess to ever push the big guy away.
I consider that its working with logic, if you think that the other character has no chances to react to your #me in a way to prevent it, then you dont need to type 'attempt', at least I personally dont. For me its all a matter of logic, I find it more frustrating to get told ((you forced RP me!!)) than that some character force RP me in a way this character should be able to.
If I am the player of X who is like 200KG and 6 feets tall, with the player of Y which is some 40KG elfess, and I do a #me pushes the elfess away. Dont PO Y ever tell me it was forced RP, I will simply laughs at it, since there was no possibility for the small elfess to ever push the big guy away.
I consider that its working with logic, if you think that the other character has no chances to react to your #me in a way to prevent it, then you dont need to type 'attempt', at least I personally dont. For me its all a matter of logic, I find it more frustrating to get told ((you forced RP me!!)) than that some character force RP me in a way this character should be able to.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Actually, it is asuptions like that that tend to get people in trouble. "I'm bigger than you, so if I push you, you /have/ to fall down/move away." It is like saying "X Punches Y in the face." and then complaining if it doesn't hit Y. Sure X could be the biggest, most powerful person in the world. But Y could be a lot smaller and quicker than X, or even has some fighting skills that can move mountains. You can't assume that is works and get others mad at you. I have always found it better to do
#me punches at Y, aiming for their face.
And hopefully get a reply. The nicer you make it, sometimes the more likely the person is to accept the attempt. You can make is sound like you should win out, but you can't make someone accept an action.
#me punches at Y, aiming for their face.
And hopefully get a reply. The nicer you make it, sometimes the more likely the person is to accept the attempt. You can make is sound like you should win out, but you can't make someone accept an action.
Yes I agree, but pushing and punching is totally different, in any punching situation I would always make #me attempts or #me aims, since the other one should have a chance to evade (unless tied or grabbed). But if the big X guy I said earlier needs to go into a building, he should be able to push the Y elfess out of the way or just ram throught her.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Yes, technicaly he should. But it doesn't give her a chance to respond. It is better to write.
#me goes to push the elfness out of his way.
And give her a chance to respond. She can jump out of the way if she wants, or she can be ran over by the bigger character. It is all up to the PO and how they wish to rp their character. Not how others with to rp them.
#me goes to push the elfness out of his way.
And give her a chance to respond. She can jump out of the way if she wants, or she can be ran over by the bigger character. It is all up to the PO and how they wish to rp their character. Not how others with to rp them.
If people are going to be nit picky.
If you roleplay
#me throws a punch at Nitram
And if he responds
#me moves out of the way
Wouldnt that be forced roleplay as he is forcing you to miss :p
Theres no answer, its all pointless. All it takes is common sense. The only answer i can think of is if someone accuses you of forced roleplay PK them and show them what forced roleplay is :p
If you roleplay
#me throws a punch at Nitram
And if he responds
#me moves out of the way
Wouldnt that be forced roleplay as he is forcing you to miss :p
Theres no answer, its all pointless. All it takes is common sense. The only answer i can think of is if someone accuses you of forced roleplay PK them and show them what forced roleplay is :p
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Kevin Lightdot
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Though the player of the elfess if she cant RP properly or wish to do a jackie chan move or whatever, and the big guy needs to go there NOW, maybe he dosent want to spend 5 minutes just to go the other side.Dantagon Marescot wrote:Yes, technicaly he should. But it doesn't give her a chance to respond. It is better to write.
#me goes to push the elfness out of his way.
And give her a chance to respond. She can jump out of the way if she wants, or she can be ran over by the bigger character. It is all up to the PO and how they wish to rp their character. Not how others with to rp them.
But anyway, I agree with Arist.
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Korm Kormsen
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due to broken connection a little bit late....
dantagon,
are you sure, that the other PO was confused about "forced RP"?
or was the other PO just confused by the situation, you created?
to me
i would understand, if somebody writes: "tries to land an uppercut to ***'s chin"
but, "reaching out gently to someone's chin" for me sounds like a romantic or sexual situation.
and, ignoring the overall situation you two had at hand, nobody else could evaluate that situation by your short description.
---------
but generally speaking, i agree with POAvalyon, not your actions are important, but the choice of reaction left to the other char is.
dantagon,
are you sure, that the other PO was confused about "forced RP"?
or was the other PO just confused by the situation, you created?
to me
sounds confusing."Reaches out to gently touch **** chin." As well as "Tries once more, looking more stern," and "Moves his hand to touch *** chin"
i would understand, if somebody writes: "tries to land an uppercut to ***'s chin"
but, "reaching out gently to someone's chin" for me sounds like a romantic or sexual situation.
and, ignoring the overall situation you two had at hand, nobody else could evaluate that situation by your short description.
---------
but generally speaking, i agree with POAvalyon, not your actions are important, but the choice of reaction left to the other char is.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Someone had the same idea, that is sounded more like a wording issue and a confusion on what was going on than really forced rp. Basicaly my character was trying to get his chin to get him to look him directly in the eyes.
Mostly I got rather annoyed when told OOC that it was the worst rp the person had ever had. Personally it was one of the best in my opinion. OH well, off to work for me.
And I agree, Arist has the best idea, lol
Mostly I got rather annoyed when told OOC that it was the worst rp the person had ever had. Personally it was one of the best in my opinion. OH well, off to work for me.
And I agree, Arist has the best idea, lol
-portion edited by Quinasa, unfit/offensive and irrelevant content deleted-
I mean I got banned around 3 months ago. By the same guy I banned this time. He sent a pm over and did not even listen to what I have to say about what happened. Thurbert got be banned right before the war for Silverbrand. So I was pissed. I asked Nitram why he didn't have a discussion about it before he got trigger happy and banned me.
Nitram and the staff do not care about forced rp. I could get one sentence out my logs and send it to the gms and they would do nothing, but I forced rped Grant kicking an already hurt and beat Thurbert for 8 days because thats all he sent to Nitram. Yesterday I guess I got banned because I put seems in my #me and thats all Kent sent to Nitram. And in the rp throughout that period with Kent he kicked Grant's shins without attempts. He should banned like I was. But no, Nitram doesn't like me so he will banned without me knowing, sending a pm, or hearing my side.
Go ahead, do forced rp, they won't care now that I am gone.
I mean I got banned around 3 months ago. By the same guy I banned this time. He sent a pm over and did not even listen to what I have to say about what happened. Thurbert got be banned right before the war for Silverbrand. So I was pissed. I asked Nitram why he didn't have a discussion about it before he got trigger happy and banned me.
Nitram and the staff do not care about forced rp. I could get one sentence out my logs and send it to the gms and they would do nothing, but I forced rped Grant kicking an already hurt and beat Thurbert for 8 days because thats all he sent to Nitram. Yesterday I guess I got banned because I put seems in my #me and thats all Kent sent to Nitram. And in the rp throughout that period with Kent he kicked Grant's shins without attempts. He should banned like I was. But no, Nitram doesn't like me so he will banned without me knowing, sending a pm, or hearing my side.
Go ahead, do forced rp, they won't care now that I am gone.
If your going to be an ass and make things public at least tell the truth.Grant wrote:-portion edited by Quinasa, unfit/offensive and irrelevant content deleted-
I mean I got banned around 3 months ago. By the same guy I banned this time. He sent a pm over and did not even listen to what I have to say about what happened. Thurbert got be banned right before the war for Silverbrand. So I was pissed. I asked Nitram why he didn't have a discussion about it before he got trigger happy and banned me.
Nitram and the staff do not care about forced rp. I could get one sentence out my logs and send it to the gms and they would do nothing, but I forced rped Grant kicking an already hurt and beat Thurbert for 8 days because thats all he sent to Nitram. Yesterday I guess I got banned because I put seems in my #me and thats all Kent sent to Nitram. And in the rp throughout that period with Kent he kicked Grant's shins without attempts. He should banned like I was. But no, Nitram doesn't like me so he will banned without me knowing, sending a pm, or hearing my side.
Go ahead, do forced rp, they won't care now that I am gone.
~Kent