Suggestion:Thieving Skill

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:05 am

Do not know if this was recommended but...

Here is an example..

Thief Player: #me examines the man
Person one talking:...
Person two talking:..
Person one:#me wears armor
Thief player:#me silently moves closer
Person on and two talking.......................................................................................
Thief Player:((Come on RP))
Person one:((no))

With my idea..

Right-click steal

First you steal maybe few coppers.
Then more.
Then items.
Maybe...
You should have a screen that comes up
Then you can see their inventory..
There you try to steal something.
Big items take lots of skill, small none.
[bold]MAIN RULE. IF STEALING IS OCCURED WITH NO RP! YOU SHALL BE REPORTED! IF PERSON FOUND IDLE BUT STILL LOGGED ON IS ROBBED YOU SHALL BE REPORTED AND MAYBE BANNED[/b]

What do you think?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:06 am

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:08 am

You should have a screen that comes up
Then you can see their inventory..
There you try to steal something.
Big items take lots of skill, small none.

Fallout is greeting

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:22 am

Remember the golden rule Swish.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:28 am

I think if you can steal something, theres a volume restriction. No stealing armors, bag and "belt" only.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:42 am

I dunno, I think Swish may be onto to something there.

Why isn't "Thieving" a skill? All the other 'professions have a skillset, and the thief skillset even has "Thieve's Gloves" which have no purpose I can tell.

If thieving was a progressive skill, stealling only a few coppers to begin, then more and more items as the skill increases, it would add a lot to the game. No longer would your inventory be safe, or even your depot....hmmmm...

A "Good" thief shouldn't be noticed anyway. Thieves, especially trained within a guild, would work as a couple. One to distract attention, and one to rob you blind, even 'pieces' of armor could be taken if they are in a bag! (Or maybe even the whole bag if you're really good). I don't see why thieves have to "Role-play" except for the fact that you wouldn't get anything if you didn't.

Like I said, thieves usually aren't 'noticed' until after the fact and you see the thief running away. Some wouldn't even notice that.

I think Swish has a good idea here, like it or not.

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:17 am

Or it would be easier for them to steal smaller things at the begining. You wouldn't get an item at all if it was low enough. And the person you are stealing from would get a warning message.

Though personally, I think rp is more fun and interactive. Plus if the persons rp is bad enough they shouldn't deserve to get anything.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:28 am

No.

that's all I can say. If you take a trip to the forum library (search) You may find some arguments on this, and why it isn't a skill.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:22 am

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:Fallout is greeting

That's exactly the reason why I condemned Fallout - being able to empty every NPCs bag without any resistance is lame.

Stealing some copper by using thief gloves is one of the most easiest things to script. Choosing stuff to steal from a menu is also possible (so easy I could script this and that means it is really easy), even though it would require a "horrible hack" as martin called my method. Could crash the server or something.

From a technical point of view, a thieving system is not a big deal. The question is, do we want this? Chars running around, shift clicking other chars, robbing money and items... Training thievery on each other... High skilled thieves who can take what they want and escape by dirty tricks... I say yes

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:26 am

Two thieves powergaming on each other and then emptiing the pockets of everyone else. I fear that such a system would cause too much trouble.
And saying that as someone who has a char that would benefit from a more active underworld means something.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:42 am

Two fighters powergaming on each other and then ambushing everyone else.

I guess it is all a matter of balancing; ctrl-click-enemy-is-dead is not a proper fighting system as shift-click-char-get-all-gold-n-stuff is not a proper thieving system.

There are things that are much more important and have no risk of pissing off players like priest magic to be worked on. But if anybody thinks he can develope a real proposal for a thieving system, feel free to do so

Samantha Meryadeles · Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:48 am

But you can escape fighters. you can run away, train yourself, get help.

a thief walking to you, emptying your pocket and walking away without you having a chance to notice it or avoid it is more a problem.

WickedEwok · Post by **WickedEwok** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:15 am

You could implement a cooldown time, as for casting, in which you can't steal anything. So you steal something and have to wait until you can do it again. in fact, someone standing behind you is suspicous after a while and if you're afk, it's your fault anyway.

I'm against a selection of the item to steal, more a random item and a chance of getting a greater item with better skill increasing.

People would have to buy stuff more often and we're not mainly talking about armors sets, but coins, potions and stuff. equipped item should be unstealable, only belt and bag-items should be available. if someone is dragging some armors around, why not cutting the belts and grab one of them? if you're very skilled... ,)

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:57 pm

And plus; this idea was directly stolen from me in the other thread and has been poorly presented here.

Try thinking up your own ideas next time.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:15 pm

Perhaps a simple coomand such as !observe which puts your character on the defensive from thievery. but upon moving cancels the command.

And for when the command is not active, base chance of detection on perception. etc etc

Hadre Taliset · Post by **Hadre Taliset** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:29 pm

i like aristeus' idea, when the !observe thing is used you have a greatly reduced chance of getting stolen without you noticing. Items in a belt should be the easiest to steal, because a bag would have to be opened. Now the reason i say this do a simple little experiment at home, put on a belt then some stuff on it with tape or maybe some thread, don't matter what could be a pair of socks. Now put on a back pack with stuff in it. Now have another person come up beside or or behind you and cut on of the things from your belt without noticing, should be fairly easy unless the thing has alot of wieghs alot. Now try and get them to open the bag without you noticing, it doesn't matter they do you notice so much more then the belt. As for buying more stuff, either way we need to do something about that, new tools, new armor, new clothes. There is just not enough market. yes the rich by the best stuff, but right now everyone will only buy the best stuff.

edit:again bell rang, i got to find more time to get on but i think i am done, i tried to finsih quick hope i didn't confuse anyone

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:05 pm

No need to introduce more clumsy text commands that no newbie will know in thier first week.
There is a much better way in my eyes:

Characters can be subject to Long Time Effects, these stay on your character for X amout of time and can cause any sort of imaginable and scriptable effect.
So, why not introcude an effect called "Wary"?
This effect will be placed on your character whenever he was victim of a theft or a failed attempt of theft (and other logical circumstances).
Having "Wary" on your character will render it impossible to steal any object from the affected character.

New players will automactily have this effect placed on thier created characters, thus giving them protection from someone trying to steal thier meager starter kit.

However, I can only see a thief-system in a very distant future, there are enough other pressing and present issues that simply have to be taken care for before one could think of introducing new bugs to the game.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:09 am

I'm still completely against the skill, but:

1.no selection from the menu. (I think I don't need to explain)

2. It must be a hard skill. I know plenty of tough skills, and this one could be so useful and popular, it better have some kind of downside.

3. what if someone left there bags open? the second something leaves your belt or sack, I'm sure you (as a player) would notice. and then all you do is spin around to the man standing behind you and shout, " THIEF!!11!1"

4. This also ruins rp. I assure you, when they get bright green skill, they will walk up, take, and walk away. This would be especially common near the depot. Is he rearranging (sp, I know) his things? Or is he swiping your pants?

5. Nothing big. no stealing anything you're wearing, or huge armors. I would also hate to have my 10 silver I was holding onto for a trade by the depot, swiped away by some guy walking out the door.

6. There has to be some kind of consequence. When I looked at that dark Age two game, the drawback to the skill was if you failed at any point, a rumor went on the board (or something like that) saying you were suspected of thieving. In Illarion, there are people who don't mind going to jail. they have a reputation that is as bad as it can get.

7.very easily pged by two thives. You may relate this to knights, which is true, BUT they lose health, their armor breaks, weapons break and they must buy potions or food. There isn't anything like that for thieves. I suggest some kind of time limit if nothing else.

I might state a few more, but I'm tired of typing for now. my two cents.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:50 am

Adano Eles wrote:Two thieves powergaming on each other and then emptiing the pockets of everyone else. I fear that such a system would cause too much trouble.
And saying that as someone who has a char that would benefit from a more active underworld means something.

I KNOW how about you lose lots of food bar when you thieve. One more thing make it so you can only steal 10 times in a amount of period. So powergaming would be stopped. Or make it really hard to learn.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:05 am

And you think food is really that hard to get? my lizard can fish for enough food in a matter of 30 seconds or so...

And what Rp reason would there be for the 10 items?
Plus, that would just diminish the growth, not stop powergaming

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:22 pm

Items stolen items should also be "branded" as such for a while, and should drop at 100% certainty if the thief was killed.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:54 pm

Nah, why would anyone know it was stolen unless it was a special item?
Stop copying Oblivion. ;_;

Rumil Togrin · Post by **Rumil Togrin** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:02 pm

I'm not sure what he meant, but I would think that the item being 'branded' would just be a mechanical feature to tell the game that it has 100% chance to drop, not something that is visible by the players.

If it is what I just said, I think it is a good idea...if it is what Kevin just said, I think it is a bad idea for the same reason he does.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:05 pm

Kevin Lightdot wrote:Nah, why would anyone know it was stolen unless it was a special item?
Stop copying Oblivion. ;_;

I have never played oblivion.

Stop and think:
If a thief steals something from me and I spot him and kick his ass, wouldn't it be reasonable that I actually get that stolen item back? After all, otherwise the thief can force items from my character without my character having a similiar chance of taking them back.

I am not optimistic enough to rely on the fairness of the PO who plays the thief.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:06 pm

Rumil Togrin wrote:I'm not sure what he meant, but I would think that the item being 'branded' would just be a mechanical feature to tell the game that it has 100% chance to drop, not something that is visible by the players.

If it is what I just said, I think it is a good idea...if it is what Kevin just said, I think it is a bad idea for the same reason he does.

We have a winner here!

EDIT: It would wear off in time (like X server cycles online or something)

Rumil Togrin · Post by **Rumil Togrin** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:16 pm

Ooh! I'm a winner!.........What did I win? I hope it's something good. I don't win things very often...except for strategy games of all types...I always win those...hardly ever lose.

Oh, sorry for the spam...

Edit -

That was my first spam post...ever. On any forum as far as I can remember. I must be losing my mind...

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:18 pm

You win 15 mins with meriel

-

I agree with the marking, but i don't agree on the 10 items, the amazing food drop, and the concept in general.

Rumil Togrin · Post by **Rumil Togrin** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:43 pm

I don't agree with the food bar drop. It makes no sense at all and wouldn't help with our problem. Nor do I like the 10 item limit as that also isn't very realistic.

I do, however, like the idea that was either earlier or in a different thread about a character becoming 'wary' of the thief, but in an altered state to what was mentioned before.

When a thief attempts to steal an item (whether or not he is succesful), it increases the 'wariness' of the thieved player and by increasing the 'wariness', it decreases the chance to succesfully steal an item and greatly decreases the chance to steal it without being detected. Every time the thief attempts to steal an item, it would increase the 'wariness' factor. The increasing values of the wariness (ok, that word is getting annoying...) ..... of the 'Alertness' factor of the character decreases the chance to steal exponentially. That would get to a point where it would be impossible to steal anything from a player. More skilled thieves would reduce the amount they increase a character's 'Alertness' with every attempt due to being more skilled.

Say for example...if the 'Alertness' value was a scale from 0 to 100 (to make it easy assuming a % chance to succeed or fail, though would obviously need work. I am simply using this as an example.), the first attempt by an unskilled thief would increase a character's alertness by (bear with me here, I'm only giving example numbers and not numbers that I am proposing to be realistic.) 10. The second would increase it by 15, then 20, then 25, etc. That would place a realistic limit on the number of attempts made by thieves. A character should also become less alert with time. Based on the example above, every minute could reduce the 'Alertness' by 1 point. (This could also be adjusted for cycles if that is how the game runs. I know very little about it.)

Furthermore, the higher the 'Alertness' of a character, the less experience (or chance of gaining skill if that is how it works) the thief recieves for that attempt of theft. That would prevent powergaming by removing the experience gain through constant attempts of theft against a fellow thief that does not care if you succeed or not.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:59 pm

The problem with a fully automated system, is the fact that its either true or false.

if a person sees me, and gets a message having seen me, and so do the others; I'm as good as dead.

If i roleplay it, i can always talk my way out of it, because not everyone would have gotten the message seeing me or so.

Plus, there are too many powergaming capabilities here, and since you can't steal from anyone else... (since no monster is friendly enough to allow you to get close to him without ripping you to shreds)

Rumil Togrin · Post by **Rumil Togrin** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:12 pm

Who ever said that it should give a message to everyone? It shouldn't. It should be a message that only the player that was being stolen from can see. (Another option is anyone within whisper range of the character.)

And to fix the problem of True and False, have a variable based on the 'Alertness' of the character and the thieving skill of the thief. It gives various messages after taking those set variables, and adds a random variable, then decides which message to give you.

The message could say things as simple as..."You think you feel a small tug at your waist." It could also say..."You see ******'s hand reach for your belt and take an item from it." Now, granted, you as the player would know a person tried to steal from you, but your character may not, and if you are a player that roleplays (and any player that doesn't should leave the game immediately, so...everybody), you will act according to the message that you recieve.

Any other problems to the thieving system that I can solve for you?