A real-live Bye-Illarion post.

Devrah Windslasher ~ · Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:29 am

Yeah. This one's for real.

I'm entirely fed up with some things. As most people already know, I've felt for a long time that the roleplay is stale and repetitive lately, so I haven't been active on any regular characters, but rather have put my free Illarion-time into questing.

The reason that I'm leaving Illarion, and its forums entirely, will be outlined in plain detail -- the truth -- here.

As most of you know by now, the "Varshikar's Pimp Daddy Quest" on the Quest Management tool was posted by me. I posted it because I was bored, and because, frankly, I had very rarely seen the tool used as anything but a medium for the exact same type of post. When Keikan came after me, hounding me for some writhingly apologetic response as to why I had done it, I told him the truth. Lo, when I logged into my account later, I saw that characters of mine had been banned without viable reason.

Since I have never once received a complaint about my RP, and since none of the other countless players (new and old alike) who had posted garbage on the quest page had ever received anything beyond a few well-chosen words, this seemed, frankly, a little like abused GM powers to me, so I spoke to Martin, who unbanned the characters after I explained to him the situation (I did show him the exact PMs exchanged between Keikan and I, before Keikan tries to say I lied about exactly what I said).

I told Martin that I knew I had done something that was frowned upon; that it had been immature and stupid, and most importantly -- and truthfully -- that I would not do it again. At this, it seemed to me that the situation was solved, and everyone was happy.

Then today, when I get home from work planning to finally finish up the Wedding Quest I began a month ago that was a large success among non-fighting characters, I receive a curt PM from Loralyn that I've been removed from ESQS on the request of "a few players", partly because I don't have as much time as some other people to dedicate to the project, but mainly because of the quest I posted.

For a minute, I thought about discussing this with Loralyn and with the players in question; after all, there was no discussion about it. Even though there are at least three dozen quest ideas on that board that were devised by myself, and even though I have always been, until the last two months or so, one of the more active members of the questing society, and. yes - even though I have been trying to still fit questing in on my off-hours between work and class-- EVEN THOUGH, when i discussed the character banniings with at least five ESQS members last night, they all seemed outraged that I might not be able to play certain quest characters -- I was cut out from the project without anyone so much as talking to me about it.

Aside from the fact that there remain members in ESQS that have done next to nothing for the entire time they've been there, and aside from the fact that these players have been complained about by other members of ESQS and yet none of them have been removed - and even aside from the fact that I had a chance to possibly become the overseer of ESQS before I passed the job away to Loralyn because I knew I didn't have the time for it (This was back during the changeover from ESQS to SBS) -- the thing that bothers me the most about this is that I truly feel that I have been one of ESQS's top contributors, as well as an active member of the similarly-goaled SBS before that, and this comes as a huge "Eff-You" to me.

In short: Yes, I did something stupid, yes I spoke to an admin about it and promised not to do anything similar again... and yes all my hard work and creativeity, all the energy I've poured into this game in the last year and a half is being tossed aside because of something so trivial that no one else has even gotten more than a harsh word over it.

I'm saying all this partly because I need to vent -- but partly because I really do believe that this will be my last post in this community, and that i will never log into this game again, and I feel I might as well at least explain why.

You can all think and say whatever you want about me, and about this situation: I know a lot of you don't like me, some of you do, and I know there will be a few people with something to say to what I've written: I might check this topic for replies if I've got an idle moment on the internet, I might not... so if what you have to say is important, you can e-mail me or talk to me on MSN, because I'm not pulling a Drama-Queen move and deleting all my contacts. i'm just tired of this game, and all the fake-politics that it is immersed in.

I say with complete sincerity that I hope my quests are continued in my absense; I really hope that some of the plans I've laid out will be carried out by the remainder of the ESQS team -- and I really hope that Illarion continues to enchant new players for years to come -- but it's done its magic on me, and it's all wore off now. I have poured a lot of my life into this game, but it's dwindled some as of late and I think all this came at the right time - I've got too much on my plate in the real world, and it's time to say it:

Good-Bye. It was nice while it lasted.

--Devrah (Christina)

Farel Leonsepth · Post by **Farel Leonsepth** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:34 am

woah woah.. ill write a repsonse tommorow i need sleep now. but woah woah.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:36 am

It has to be said: Not only one of the few active members of ESQS, but the one who put Loralyn in the leadership position in the first place, without which she would never be a GM in the first.

Lately the staff has been able to suprise even the battle-hardened like me. =)

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:38 am

Yeah, it seems most of Illarion's institutions are completely disfunctional, and they have been for a long time, and I don't understand why because it hurts testers, and developers, who work hard improving things just to have it wasted by the prementioned disfunctional things, and I'm talking about almost everything, not just one area. Getting banned for that is weird, since people do much worse on a daily basis (wait you arent in the temple doing dumb things IG, so yeah banning sounds right), and nothing really happens.

In all the time here I didn't interact much, if at all, with the char Devrah, and I'm not sure about other chars, so..

Best of luck in whatever you do (college, employment, etc)

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:40 am

It's not just getting banned for that that is weird. It's getting banned by that person. I was guaranteed by Nitram only days ago that Keikan is *not* a GM and that they have a tight leash on him, considering, of course, that he was kicked out of the GM's in the past.

Something does not add up.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:47 am

Honestly Chrissy, yes you have lied to me ooc, yes you have been a blatent bitch to myself and the entire community but at the same time you were a useful person in this community. At the same time, I have learned from personal experience that when you do dumb immature shit it isn't as funny as you think it would be and even then you cannot be trusted with a responsible position if you act like those who joke constantly or constantly are asses to the rest of the community. That is simply a fact.

Loralyn in my eyes did the right thing, the ESQS needs a reformation if it will ever become anything more then a sad joke anymore. Yes it is sad to see you were removed for this reason, you could have been removed for a lot of other things, but it had to come. And at the same time we need to remember that when you were leader of it, it was not a grand thing, there was way to many people wandering around with pushed characters with no determinable quest being thrusted forward with them.

Yet at the same time it is sad to see someone as clever and witty as you to leave this community over this. You can still play your characters and even more to the point you still can finish your wedding quest which I think involved 0 quest characters and just regular characters made from an account? But that is something you need to decide.

Not to drag out my post any longer. It was a difficult decision by Loralyn without doubt but one that needed to be done. No I was not one of the players that complained about you, infact I never formally complain about anyone, I keep it all public so you don't ever feel I am stabbing you in the back. Your probably always be welcomed in this community by the vast majority anyways and likely will wander back in a year or two like I did.

truly
Sam

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:48 am

sucky.

what you did was stupid and I can think of a million other things to do when bored, but I also think you should get some kind of a warning at least.

why don't you sleep on it?

Devrah Liioness · Post by **Devrah Liioness** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:50 am

Garett Gwenour wrote:And at the same time we need to remember that when you were leader of it, it was not a grand thing, there was way to many people wandering around with pushed characters with no determinable quest being thrusted forward with them.

Disregarding any comment to the rest of the post, maybe you should learn your facts. I never was actually the leader.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:52 am

It's true. Before she knew that the SBS was going to be remade into the ESQS, I came to her informing her that Jennifer wanted to give leadership to her. She said that she was too much of a noob and gave it to Loralyn. Loralyn wouldn't have the power to kick her out of ESQS, ironically, if it weren't for Devrah.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:53 am

You dont entirely need to be the official overseer to be leader of it Chrissy. To say anyone else held more weight in it then you after Aegohl went AWOL is to deny that the sky is blue.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:55 am

However, to say that she had the leadership role would be to say that others failed in their oversight of ESQS--something I'm still worried about.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:22 am

Garett Gwenour wrote: Loralyn in my eyes did the right thing, the ESQS needs a reformation if it will ever become anything more then a sad joke anymore. Yes it is sad to see you were removed for this reason, you could have been removed for a lot of other things, but it had to come. And at the same time we need to remember that when you were leader of it, it was not a grand thing, there was way to many people wandering around with pushed characters with no determinable quest being thrusted forward with them.

A two-step guide to not being a total ignoramous:

I. Remove head from ass.
II. Realize you're a total dick and reform yourself.

I've seen far more activity and leadership from Devrah than I have ever seen from "Loralyn."

This shit right here. This entire situation. This is the shit that keeps tearing the community apart.

Aegohl wrote:It's not just getting banned for that that is weird. It's getting banned by that person. I was guaranteed by Nitram only days ago that Keikan is *not* a GM and that they have a tight leash on him, considering, of course, that he was kicked out of the GM's in the past.

Something does not add up.

Funny... this is one of the few things of Illarion Past that I do remember - Keikan being removed from the GM list. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:31 am

What is ESQS?
And also you did do something wrong. Maybe it was wrong for you getting kicked out of the team but... You should not have done something like that.
That was not polite. You mean them abusing powers. You abused it. And for the whole part of the thing about other players going with words and you getting banned. The other players are new!!! You know well enough.
And what your saying is like this:

You and someone new to a game gets hit with a ball. Lets say soccer.
You say:

Oh come on he only left with some scratches but I got a broken leg!

See what I am saying.

Please consider this over.
But any way if you want to leave. I cant stop you.

Bye.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:34 am

It is sad to see Christina go like this. So in light of this I shall bring some things into light for those of you in the dark. I'll say some things, that more than likely will have Loralyn kick me out of the ESQS for, because she will find it a direct attack upon herself, But it is not, It is the entire disfunction of her leadership abilities, not her.

Loralyn has been quite inactive in the last month or two, Not to mention that the leaders behind the ESQS have been ignorant, or down right objective to most of the Teams legitimate requests. It has also come to my attention, though Loralyn does not personally use Her status to further her Characters, she has told me in the past to STOP my roleplay wiothout explaination. When I asked her about it later, she had said she had made a mistake and that she had gotten carried away. She has always, as leader of the ESQS, wanted everything that has been made, to be to her standards, which is understandable, However, her standards are by far flexible when it comes to "messing" with her normal characters.

She has told me outright that I needed to stop something, in which I did not step over the rules that were put in play. Also, We were scorned for the DA quest, in which a certain character was not banned because he is "No longer affiliated with the DA quest" I'm sorry, I thought that specific quest character was made directly for the DA quest, and nothing else, But once again, she bends the rules to her whim.

It is also apparant that she has mood swings. One day she will be here and helpfull, the next she will completely ignore you and not even truely listen to what you have to say. The other leader of the ESQS(You know who you are) Is equally as non-responsive as Loralyn. Both will, most of the time, Ignore you for atleast an hour or two before even relpying back, if even that.

I'd also like to bring into light that there are peeople in the ESQS, as Christina has said, that have not done a single thing, and Yet Christina gets kicked out with a "You are not as active as most players" Bullshit. Most of the ESQS have a problem with a Certain player(Gm's, Pm me if you want the name.) that has done nothing but weigh us down. He takes up a spot that could be filled with a viable asset to the team. Infact, I could name a few people who we should bring in right now.

This Player has yet to propose a quest or Help with a quest. The Player has only posted that he would help on the ESQS boards, in which he never appeared for, even if he was online at that time.

At this point, Christina or Athian is more a leader than Loralyn, Well, I have more respect for them than I do Loralyn. There are about 6 active ESQS members that try our best to bring quests that will facinate the player base(You.) and create a fun enviorment.

I was the Male elf in the Wedding quest, that I believe many had fun in setting up the wedding. I also believe that most players involved in the Ranger and Mage School taught by jak and Sedian are having alot of fun, even if it is just the basics as of now. But we plan to have alot more RP involved in the near future, if they would all complete their tasks

.

Loralyn has allowed the ESQS to become understaffed without a care in the world, By my count we are atleast two players down than the normal ammount, and not once since the last person was brough in (About a month ago) Have I seen her make an active effort to get new players into the ESQS.

As Mitch has said, I am also worried about the ESQS. We are highly understaffed and can hardly do anything with a GM who denies about 70% of requests to do Quests for the Player base. So here is a conclusion that is to this synopsis.

It is in my opinon, I do not speak for the rest of the ESQS unless they wish to voice their opinon aswell, That Loralyn is an ineffective leader of the ESQS. Also, the Player in question has no viable reason to be in the ESQS other than the fact that Loralyn placed him there without the consent of all the other ESQS members, and has not removed him for his lack of participation. So the comment in which she was removed for the fact that she is more innactive than the other ESQS members is complete bullocks, a fabricated lie. She is more active than Athian or I.

Broc.

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:39 am

Guys, come on. Loralyn is a great GM. She's active and helpful and you're all being dickheads. It isn't her fault that Christina is leaving so stop taking all your anger out on her. You're going to lose not only one good RPer, but another and a GM if you don't quit yer bitching. Try to remember that these are real people with real feelings behind the avatars, and they give more than all their free time to the game. Both Devrah and Loralyn are invaluable members of the staff you were so profusely thanking for their help and hard work.

I don't understand any of you. Ungrateful and fickle. Loralyn has been doing things in her real life that none of you know about and don't deserve to know about. But she's still active and she's still an active player. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean she isn't doing something for Illarion. I'm sad to see Christina go as well, but its no reason to go off like this.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:42 am

I'll say some things, that more than likely will have Loralyn kick me out of the ESQS for, because she will find it a direct attack upon herself, But it is not, It is the entire disfunction of her leadership abilities, not her.

Um?

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:47 am

Ungrateful? Yeah. About a lot. But not about the work Devrah has done. I tend to place my gratitude where I can actually see appreciable things manifest.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:48 am

I wasn't going to post, but seeing as everyone is pushing their opinion around, I suppose I will too.

The fact is, in the illarion community, groups hardly ever work and remain active. Its not because of bad leadership, but other factors. Smaller groups have a greater chance to survive. Groups have been created and mostly become inactive (essentially) in a few weeks to a few months. I don't see why we have taken the hint yet, they just don't seem to work.

I don't mean this as an insult to anyone, but they just seem to fall apart. The reasons go much deeper than just "bad leadership".

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:54 am

I agree. Now everyone say goodbye to Christina before I lock this thread. She didn't make it to be hurtful, she made it to say goodbye.

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:57 am

swish1 wrote:What is ESQS?

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:58 am

swish1 wrote:
swish1 wrote:What is ESQS?

A reincarnation of the SBS questing team.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:59 am

The ESQS Is a player based Questing group ran by players who have been found trustable, and have the time to spare on such things.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:01 am

Quinasa wrote:I agree. Now everyone say goodbye to Christina before I lock this thread. She didn't make it to be hurtful, she made it to say goodbye.

Yes, that sounds pretty much like a staff member. Lock something when a discussion is needed. It stops the fight, but accomplishes nothing.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:02 am

Cain Freemont wrote:
Quinasa wrote:I agree. Now everyone say goodbye to Christina before I lock this thread. She didn't make it to be hurtful, she made it to say goodbye.

Yes, that sounds pretty much like a staff member. Lock something when a discussion is needed. It stops the fight, but accomplishes nothing.

I believe I solved the argument already

Grant · Post by **Grant** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:03 am

Bye even though I don't think I have ever roleplayed with you. Just read some stories. And hurtful to who Quin?

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:05 am

I have to admit, that is very annoying, but then again I guess it's needed for SOME people to stop acting like babies( that may or may not apply to this scenario)

EDIT: this was supposed to go with the locking thing.

Hu'greu · Post by **Hu'greu** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:06 am

well good bye then , now i cant chase around your fairy

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:12 am

Cain Freemont wrote:
Quinasa wrote:I agree. Now everyone say goodbye to Christina before I lock this thread. She didn't make it to be hurtful, she made it to say goodbye.

Yes, that sounds pretty much like a staff member. Lock something when a discussion is needed. It stops the fight, but accomplishes nothing.

It isn't a discussion. Christina's leaving isn't up for discussion. She's left, goodbye, she made up her mind. This isn't up for discussion. This went from a goodbye thread to an everybody bash Loralyn thread. Discussions dont take place with pointing fingers and dirty accusations, they happen with sincere care for the subject and in a diplomatic fashion. You're right, Cain. Just like a staff member. And oh, look. I'm a staff member. I'm looking out for not only my sister but for the welfare of the game. When you people can solve your issues in a civilized manner then and only then will I let you have your discussion.

Avareniah · Post by **Avareniah** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:12 am

Christina,

Truly, I am very, very sorry to see you go. Politics and the rest aside, I always enjoyed your roleplay. You brought stability and generally entertaining rp to Illarion and I am really thankful that you were around and active in the days when I was just getting started.
You've been really helpful and a truly dedicated member of this community, even while on bitch-fests (

). I'll miss you around here, but I hope that whatever you choose to do is best for you and you can be happy.

Cassy.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:12 am

Taylor wrote:It is sad to see Christina go like this. So in light of this I shall bring some things into light for those of you in the dark. I'll say some things, that more than likely will have Loralyn kick me out of the ESQS for, because she will find it a direct attack upon herself, But it is not, It is the entire disfunction of her leadership abilities, not her.

Loralyn has been quite inactive in the last month or two, Not to mention that the leaders behind the ESQS have been ignorant, or down right objective to most of the Teams legitimate requests. It has also come to my attention, though Loralyn does not personally use Her status to further her Characters, she has told me in the past to STOP my roleplay wiothout explaination. When I asked her about it later, she had said she had made a mistake and that she had gotten carried away. She has always, as leader of the ESQS, wanted everything that has been made, to be to her standards, which is understandable, However, her standards are by far flexible when it comes to "messing" with her normal characters.

She has told me outright that I needed to stop something, in which I did not step over the rules that were put in play. Also, We were scorned for the DA quest, in which a certain character was not banned because he is "No longer affiliated with the DA quest" I'm sorry, I thought that specific quest character was made directly for the DA quest, and nothing else, But once again, she bends the rules to her whim.

It is also apparant that she has mood swings. One day she will be here and helpfull, the next she will completely ignore you and not even truely listen to what you have to say. The other leader of the ESQS(You know who you are) Is equally as non-responsive as Loralyn. Both will, most of the time, Ignore you for atleast an hour or two before even relpying back, if even that.

I'd also like to bring into light that there are peeople in the ESQS, as Christina has said, that have not done a single thing, and Yet Christina gets kicked out with a "You are not as active as most players" Bullshit. Most of the ESQS have a problem with a Certain player(Gm's, Pm me if you want the name.) that has done nothing but weigh us down. He takes up a spot that could be filled with a viable asset to the team. Infact, I could name a few people who we should bring in right now.

This Player has yet to propose a quest or Help with a quest. The Player has only posted that he would help on the ESQS boards, in which he never appeared for, even if he was online at that time.

At this point, Christina or Athian is more a leader than Loralyn, Well, I have more respect for them than I do Loralyn. There are about 6 active ESQS members that try our best to bring quests that will facinate the player base(You.) and create a fun enviorment.

I was the Male elf in the Wedding quest, that I believe many had fun in setting up the wedding. I also believe that most players involved in the Ranger and Mage School taught by jak and Sedian are having alot of fun, even if it is just the basics as of now. But we plan to have alot more RP involved in the near future, if they would all complete their tasks .

Loralyn has allowed the ESQS to become understaffed without a care in the world, By my count we are atleast two players down than the normal ammount, and not once since the last person was brough in (About a month ago) Have I seen her make an active effort to get new players into the ESQS.

As Mitch has said, I am also worried about the ESQS. We are highly understaffed and can hardly do anything with a GM who denies about 70% of requests to do Quests for the Player base. So here is a conclusion that is to this synopsis.

It is in my opinon, I do not speak for the rest of the ESQS unless they wish to voice their opinon aswell, That Loralyn is an ineffective leader of the ESQS. Also, the Player in question has no viable reason to be in the ESQS other than the fact that Loralyn placed him there without the consent of all the other ESQS members, and has not removed him for his lack of participation. So the comment in which she was removed for the fact that she is more innactive than the other ESQS members is complete bullocks, a fabricated lie. She is more active than Athian or I.

Broc.

I believe you are talking about me here, the 'ESQS member which did not do anything yet'. First on, I did not do NOTHING at all, I have helped in a few quests which you were probably not aware of. I have to admit, that I am not doing enought into ESQS, but it is not because I do not want to. I have asked if I could help in a great amount of quests in preparation, for some reasons, I have been ignored in ALL of them, even though I was avaible to make those. As well, it seems that some members of the team refused my msn request, how am I supposed to communicate with them about questing and such? It seems that since a good part of the team dislikes me none would ask for my help for anything while knowing I am greatly avaible.

For the part about Loralyn, I find it rather harsh. First on, you should not blame her about adding me to the team, it was not her idea. Also, even though she has not always been very active, I would not go as far as saying she did a 'bad job' and give her all the blames, as far as I know, she has made a few quests and did the GM support needed when she was required.

For Devrah's leaving, I find it sad that such a good roleplayer and who has been so helpful in the game leave, I hope you will come back one day. I doubt you care about me saying this but anyway, goodbye.