The 'Wrestling' Skill
Moderator: Developers
The 'Wrestling' Skill
G'day, fellow Illarionites!
My character Sess'sth is a carpenter these days. Therefore, he's been using clubs and some projectile weapons mostly. But recently, he's been using his claws more (unarmed). I see it as more of a lizardman heritage thing, to fight with one's claws to prove one's true strength, agility, and strategy in the battlefield.
But, I don't know how potent one's fists can truly be. Some of you will come and say "Find this out ingame!!!", though I don't think that possible unless I max out my "wrestling" skill and fight all kinds of opponents. My question is, can unarmed combatants ever be a decent match against someone with, say, a battleaxe? I can always roleplay that I'm darting around someone's back and ripping through their armor or finding an unarmored piece of flesh and striking it, but there is only so much you can do if the game itself doesn't support you that much.
So, to those who created this skill, is it really worth training, or will I constantly find myself outmatched? Mind you, I plan to wear armor, just like my opponents.
Thankers for your help,
PO Sess
My character Sess'sth is a carpenter these days. Therefore, he's been using clubs and some projectile weapons mostly. But recently, he's been using his claws more (unarmed). I see it as more of a lizardman heritage thing, to fight with one's claws to prove one's true strength, agility, and strategy in the battlefield.
But, I don't know how potent one's fists can truly be. Some of you will come and say "Find this out ingame!!!", though I don't think that possible unless I max out my "wrestling" skill and fight all kinds of opponents. My question is, can unarmed combatants ever be a decent match against someone with, say, a battleaxe? I can always roleplay that I'm darting around someone's back and ripping through their armor or finding an unarmored piece of flesh and striking it, but there is only so much you can do if the game itself doesn't support you that much.
So, to those who created this skill, is it really worth training, or will I constantly find myself outmatched? Mind you, I plan to wear armor, just like my opponents.
Thankers for your help,
PO Sess
I think wresling can becomne rather strong, you can see it with the wresling mummys (which are like 3x stronger than the dagger ones). At first, wresling is useless agaisnt an armed opponent. But im pretty sure it can become rather good when well trained, I heard learning the skill was making it faster, stronger for sure, and more accurate. It is harder to parry a double axe than to parry a good wresler ig im sure. But, if I would want a wresling character, I would assure that he can learn dodge, because of you are a wresler without dodge, you dont have much to defend yourself..
- Garett Gwenour
- Posts: 2360
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:18 am
- Location: Is Roleplay in YOU ?
I wouldn't exactly expect to be ripping through someone's armor every fight, if ever. That was a mere example. In a normal fight, a wrestler would have to move fast enough to find an unarmored spot or some other weakness to bring down his/her opponent. And they'd need to throw a lot of punches, which could bend the opponent's armor and make them immobile or something. But if you've fine-tuned your skills enough, I would think you could own someone with just your fists. I just don't know if it's like that way technically.
- Cliu Beothach
- Posts: 1932
- Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:07 am
- Location: Leaving, in the oceans of the moon.
- Samantha Meryadeles
- Posts: 1879
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:48 pm
- Contact:
Wrestling is not just hitting with your hand. It is also kicks, and throws. A samurai wasn't just a masterfull swordfighter, they also learned martial arts. And that was not kicks, or punches. The samurai learned throws and grips. They threw heavy armored enemys to the ground. because this way they got hurt amazingly. Someone wearing heavy armor suffers great inner injuries when he gets thrown with his heavy armor to the ground.At the same time, how are fists, even claws going to penetrate thick steel salkamerian armor? Not likely, I am sure wrestling is powerful against leather, but if a Knight is wearing his tank armor and has a shield and sword, your dead meat.. lizard meat.
So yes, martial arts can be very successfull against armored opponents. the heavy armor makes you less agile, you cant defend against the opponents grips. he grips you, throws you to the ground, and you are f***
- Garett Gwenour
- Posts: 2360
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:18 am
- Location: Is Roleplay in YOU ?
Considering Stephen at 6'6" and as muscular as I play him, he would weigh around 220 lbs already, add about another.. 100 to 120 pounds for his steel..
how will you throw around 340 lbs of strength? and at the same time, the warrior isnt standing still, he is either grappling with you are beating you with his shield as you struggle to get a good enough grip and footing to throw him.
please
how will you throw around 340 lbs of strength? and at the same time, the warrior isnt standing still, he is either grappling with you are beating you with his shield as you struggle to get a good enough grip and footing to throw him.
please
- Dónal Mason
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:46 pm
- Location: Don't feed the mogwai. After midnight, at least.
And the wrestler would generally be unhampered by 100 pounds of steel. Hell, if we wanted to he could just WALK AWAY. Besides, rather than a real throw, they'd use the weight of his body and armour to make him fall over. Then they'd tie you down and go get a tin opener.
Last edited by Dónal Mason on Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Thariel Feuersturm
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:50 am
- Samantha Meryadeles
- Posts: 1879
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:48 pm
- Contact:
- Garett Gwenour
- Posts: 2360
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:18 am
- Location: Is Roleplay in YOU ?
i would love to see that. honestly, a knight isnt a turtle in my armors, take lor angur. it is light but it is hard, he can move easily in it. And he has a sword. He isnt some test dummy you fight against in martial arts school, he is fighting back.
But I am just being realistic, make wrestling stronger or don't. In real life there is no chance at all for a master wrestling to be able to beat a master swordsman with protection and parry and dodge skills.
But I am just being realistic, make wrestling stronger or don't. In real life there is no chance at all for a master wrestling to be able to beat a master swordsman with protection and parry and dodge skills.
- Lance Thunnigan
- Posts: 1749
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:02 am
- Location: The 918, OK
- Samantha Meryadeles
- Posts: 1879
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:48 pm
- Contact:
- Dónal Mason
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:46 pm
- Location: Don't feed the mogwai. After midnight, at least.
Knights were trained killers just as Samurai were. They also had a number of unarmed martial skills that they learnt.
Just because he wears some plate does not make him a large dumb and inexperienced hunk of steel.
http://www.thehaca.com/essays/knightvs.htm
Just because he wears some plate does not make him a large dumb and inexperienced hunk of steel.
http://www.thehaca.com/essays/knightvs.htm
- Lance Thunnigan
- Posts: 1749
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:02 am
- Location: The 918, OK
- Garett Gwenour
- Posts: 2360
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:18 am
- Location: Is Roleplay in YOU ?
This has become an interesting subject, and seeing that no GM/Dev account has replied with much of anything, all we can rely on is what we know. I was more asking about the technical side of things, I don't know if I could ever overcome an armored warrior because the game simply might not let me. But on the other hand, the possibilities are endless - just look at David and Goliath, anything can happen. I just don't know if the client will work how I imagine it to, to make wrestling somewhat balanced. After all, the client determines the main limits to our power ingame. There is only so much we can do roleplay-wise to work around the technical difficulties.
So, as I wait for a GM to say anything, let's keep up the debate! It's fun.
So, as I wait for a GM to say anything, let's keep up the debate! It's fun.
- Dónal Mason
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:46 pm
- Location: Don't feed the mogwai. After midnight, at least.
It's the lack of control that can make you lose a fight. (if its hand to hand combat) you're not thinking, they are, block your wild flailing attacks, and kick you square in the nuts.
Martial arts now are not like they were in the Medieval times mind you.
If you're wearing heavy armour, lose balance and fall, chances are you wont be getting up in a hurry, then with a dagger you can stab to a gap in the armour, maybe around the neck. Then again, if you're not wearing armour and you get hit by a sword you're just as screwed.
Martial arts now are not like they were in the Medieval times mind you.
If you're wearing heavy armour, lose balance and fall, chances are you wont be getting up in a hurry, then with a dagger you can stab to a gap in the armour, maybe around the neck. Then again, if you're not wearing armour and you get hit by a sword you're just as screwed.
It is a fact, an armored and armed person as more chances than a wresler in a real fight. Sure, some wreslers could have trained all their lives, and be able to overcome a trained fighter, everything can happen. But it requires MUCH MORE training. And the point aboit weight from garrett isnt bad, try getting down someone being 300 lb, striking at you wit his sword and blunting his shield at your head. An armored fighter in RL does not strike SLOWLY, armors werent made random, they were giving a good mobility to arms, just getting close to someone skilled holding a weapon was insane. We arent in some movies where big fighters are slowass and small ones are mega ninjas that can run around the opponent 4x before he can turn back. Armored opponents WALKS SLOW, but they dont hit slowly. Wresling to me, should only be any good when the skill is very high, and mainly good agaisnt unarmored opponents.
- Samantha Meryadeles
- Posts: 1879
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:48 pm
- Contact:
Thats what you train in jiu-jitsu and Aikido . exactly that. blocking a swordattack, and using the swordswingers strength, weight and power against himselfAnd the point aboit weight from garrett isnt bad, try getting down someone being 300 lb, striking at you wit his sword and blunting his shield at your head.
Last edited by Samantha Meryadeles on Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Garett Gwenour
- Posts: 2360
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 2:18 am
- Location: Is Roleplay in YOU ?
- Thariel Feuersturm
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:50 am
if you want we can talk, whats the best martial arts...
I have praticed Win Tsun, Mordern Arnis, Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing, but i couldnt say, whats the best. Every human has his own ability. And you misunderstand us. If you are a grandmaster in sword and fighting against a grandmaster in martial arts, the grandmaster in sword will have the same chances like the grandmaster of marcial arts.
Do you know, why i was learning so much different arts?
Because, if you cant fight well as aikidoka, you arent able to know, what teh other will do. And if you ever never have had a sword in your hand or observed a swordsman, you dont know, what the other want to do.
Thats it.
I have praticed Win Tsun, Mordern Arnis, Jiu Jitsu, Thai Boxing, but i couldnt say, whats the best. Every human has his own ability. And you misunderstand us. If you are a grandmaster in sword and fighting against a grandmaster in martial arts, the grandmaster in sword will have the same chances like the grandmaster of marcial arts.
Do you know, why i was learning so much different arts?
Because, if you cant fight well as aikidoka, you arent able to know, what teh other will do. And if you ever never have had a sword in your hand or observed a swordsman, you dont know, what the other want to do.
Thats it.
- Mark Strongarm
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:09 pm
I like the idea of how much the skill is mastered being more important than the skill being used... as for what grounds one fighting skill may be considered better than another... that would require a large survey of master knights against master martial artists that I doubt has been done.. I'm thinking it would be harder to train as a martial artist and be effective. Is it outrageous to think it would take at least 5 years to train to be decent in martial arts? Would a giant man with armor and a sword easily destroy anyone without those qualifications, with very minimal training?
-details, details,... first we'll need to be able to learn skills again..
-details, details,... first we'll need to be able to learn skills again..