Illarion.org

Since no one can seem to articulate exactly what they want, except that they want Stephen ousted, I will formulate one suggestion in the hopes others will be moved to do the same.

It is obvious that Trollsbane needs some form of government - there must be organization, or when the town is threatened many will die uselessly, as we have seen. However, the people that live in Trollsbane do not need to be herded like sheep to do the bidding of their government. We need a system that is fair as well as a decent protectorate.

I have thought about this, and I have drawn some ideas from other places that I have seen outside of this island, and here is what I suggest:

Firstly, to be a citizen of Trollsbane should require more than just adding a name to the list, or else anyone who wants to enjoy the benefits of a guard can sign up without contributing to the town at all. There should be some guidelines set: For example, to become a citizen, one should live in Trollsbane for at least three months prior to requesting citizenship ((1 month RL)), and one should also complete six hours ((2 hours RL)) of community service benefitting the town. This can be in the form of planting seeds, renovating damaged buildings, even taking a full shift (by which I mean, actually doing something besides walking around and looking threateningly at people) on the town guard.

Once citizenship is established, we run into a problem: In order to provide for the people, the town needs funding, but the people need an income in order to provide this funding. I propose that a system of guilds and trades be properly established - I know we have a carpenters guild floating around out there somewhere, and we could incorporate a system where a Guild is established and becomes the sole provider of a given good to the town. By this, I do not mean that citizens can only buy from this trader - I mean that for municipal purposes (example, weapons for the guards, materials to rebuild the shop, etc) all goods would be bought from the guilds, but in turn these guilds would guarantee a set discounted price for these tasks. They would make this up in volume. Also, the guilds would be able to take apprentices only from the existing citizen list, thus ensuring that the jobs in the city were taken only by its people, and employing the citizens.

Any citizen employed in such a guild would owe a tax to the city, which would be collected quarterly ((Every 1 month RL)), and which would be relevant to his level in the guild. For example, since a Master Carpenter would hold more contracts, he would be taxed a higher amount than a Novice in the same guild. For a beginning guideline, I would suggest a range of 50 copper pieces per quarter for a Novice, up to 2 silver pieces per quarter for a Master.

These taxes would pay for equipment, guards' salary, and, yes, the governments' salary.

Citizens who are unemployed or work for private guilds would not be taxed, but also would not be eligible for the same benefits as taxpaying citizens as outlined below:

Taxpaying citizens would receive additional benefits including: Free stay at the Seahorse Inn, The ability to have reimbursements of proveable theft returned to them by the government in the case that the government is unable to apprehend the criminal within a reasonable time period of three weeks ((1 week RL)), up to 500 coppers or items of similar value. Taxpaying citizens would also be provided with one medium-to-good quality weapon for hunting purposes every year ((RL 4 months)). This weapon would be the citizen's choice from a Simple Dagger, Serinjah Sword, or Mace, and would be in decent quality, of course.

This leads to the government - how would laws be decided upon and enforced? I propose a sytem where four officials are elected by the citizens. ONLY citizens may vote in these elections, and I would also suggest that the Citizen list be closed for three months ((RL 1 month)) prior to a scheduled election, to prevent people from becoming citizens only to have a say in the election and then become inactive. The officials would be elected every year ((4 months RL)), being given each time six weeks to campaign ((2 weeks RL)) using only private funding. The officials would be:

1) Record Keeper ~ This person is responsible for keeping the Citizens List updated, and recording town laws as well as recording minutes at town meetings. Any disputed with regards to interpretation of laws, or listings on the citizens list would be brought to this person first.
2) Tax Collector ~ This person would be responsible for collecting taxes and any other incoming funds to the town (For example, if a vendor had a contract to be allowed to compete with the guilds in town for a fee of 100 coppers a month, the Tax Collector wouldcollect it)
3) Treasurer ~ This person would be responsible for any outgoing funds - That is, paying salaries, doling out money to taxpayers who have been robbed and were unable to recover their funds. The reason for a separatin of offices for incoming and outgoing money, is to decrease the chances that corruption would cause the books to be kept incorrectly by one seeking to line their own pockets.
4)Overseer ~ This position would entail keeping an eye on the other three positions, and ensuring the town operates smoothly. This person, while holding the supreme vote, CAN be overruled if the other three officers vote unanimously.

Each of the four positions would be paid a salary of 1 silver piece a quarter to begin, since the town is on rocky footing, but this salary could be increased through a vote later on.

Bringing me to votes: A town meeting should be held once every quarter ((month)). ALL citizens are allowed to vote, but taxpaying citizens would have 1.5 votes each, where a non-taxpaying citizen would receive only 1 vote each. Any issue to be made into law would be voted on in a majority-rules basis, and then enfored by the officers.

And finally, since it raised so much debate before - On the salary of Town Guards: Guards would be paid in what I deem a very fair manner - by the work they do. Each full day a guard patrols ((2 hours RL)) he will receive a pay ranging from 20 coppers to 50 coppers, depending on his rank in the guard. Also, when a town guard apprehends a thief and returns the stolen goods to a citizen, the guard would be paid from the treasury 10% of the value of the reovered goods. When a murderer has been caught, the guard will receive 50 coppers, if the murderer is proved guilty in a fair trial.

----


This is just a basic outline of my idea, meant to inspure outhers to get their asses moving and suggest something instead of just whining.

~Devrah N. Liioness

It looks not bad, it will take some time to realize it but this looks good to me.

T.G.

This sounds liek a very well thought-out system.

I would only add that I think the Captain of the Guard should likewise be an elected position, answerable therefore to the people of the town.

~Maggie Kemoc~

The town guard is there for your protection, as it always has been. And never do we recieve thanks for what we do, but then again, never do we ask. If the town itself would take up the call to defend themselves then a elected Captain of the guard would suit me fine, yet i cannot remember the last time that has happened. And Deverah, we must speak.

Revlen,
captain of the town guard

Revlen, go to hell. As for the Goverance suggestion, I love it. I totally agree with it in every way.

~Dhaeraow Greybone

And where is the justice system amoungst all this financial offices?

How would these officials be put into place?

~Brer Beothach~

Obviously, we will follow the way the justice had been before that tyrant Stephen came. Captain of the Guard, a few jurors, and possibly a judge, such as yourself.

Also, she mentioned that all these will be an elected position, and will hold no point in monarchy, as Stephen claimed his rule was.

Signed,
Scipio.

Incorrect, before i came the Overseer was the judge and executioner as Derek Corydon showed during the trial of Taylor vs William Elderberry. I am the first leader of Trolls Bane, nay even the entire island, to introduce such a modern form of justice.

Stephen Rothman
Governor of Trolls Bane

Garett Gwenour wrote:Incorrect, before i came the Overseer was the judge and executioner as Derek Corydon showed during the trial of Taylor vs William Elderberry. I am the first leader of Trolls Bane, nay even the entire island, to introduce such a modern form of justice.

Stephen Rothman
Governor of Trolls Bane

Wait a second.
You were mentioned in one trial, and after the leader of Troll's Bane left, you announced yourself govenor?
Or did Derek Corydon announce you govenor?

Very Confused,
Scipio.

Stephen stepped in after Bailey left, who made a much more hostile takeover than anything Stephen ever did, yet none of you complained then suprisingly.


F

i is neader for or against yoo stephen but skill wif sword and twisten words is nut a justice system. der wos a storm wile ago and da town still lays in ruins. Villians and bandets run about da town and nub one stops dem. i does wish ter know whot exactly yoo hus dun couse frum whur i stand yoo husnt changed nuffen.


Gabon
Leader of Varshikar Milita

we're sorry that we can't control the weather, but if you happen to get any inventions to do so, we would be glad to use it.

You talk as though we're not going to fix the town. We are, bu these things take time, money, and resources, which can not be pulled out of thin air.

criminals roam the streets with no one stopping them? then who do we put in the Prison? did we not just capture Sebastions little buddy?

~Allen~

dont know who yo is Allen but call meh little again and yoo will beh much shorta and have nub head. I aint nub petty citizen dat will put up wif yoos crap, been arround long before yoo and i seen many leaders come and go in Trollsbane. None worked fast but many worked faster than Stephen there. About da storm, der hus been nub effort ter do nuffen except collet wood, iron, copper, coal, and silver. Whot does any of des have ter does wif cleaning up storm mud? Da town beh covered in mud some paths beh realies bad (( thats Rp not serrious)) and nuffen hus been dun. Resources aint needed fer eberyting. Arms manily all yoo need and arms seems liken sumtin Stephen beh missen, at least ones willin to work for betta of town.

Gabon
Leader of da Varshikar Milita

Dear Gabon Corad, Varshikar Militia leader

I know that you hold Trolls Bane's best interest at heart and you truely want to see that the city is lead by an active and good leader however I feel I must disagree with you and therefore defend myself against your slander. The dirt you see will regrow, however we cannot just summon grass at a whim. The river that flowed through Trolls bane turned over many carts, soaked many shops and left much of the city in chaos. Understandably you were not there and did not know the full extent of the damage the storm dealt to the town, therefore I will go into detail so you may walk away from this knowledgeable on the issue and perhaps not make the same mistake twice. The town was in a far worse shape that night then it is now. The tavern was entirely flooded, as was the library, eliza's shop was blocked by a broken cart and numerous times the Sea Horse was put ablaze by lightning as was much of the front lawn. Fortunately those there, I will not name them because I fear I would forget someone, but I will say members of the Knighthood, the guard, part of Varshikar and most importantly citizens of Trolls Bane were there to help keep the city from burning down.
The town walls will not be mended because in a few weeks time entirely new walls will be built along with another prison. Using resources on them now would be wasteful and would only serve for the moment and not the long run. Which is what this government intends on doing, serving Trolls Bane for the long run.

If you have anymore innocent misinterpretations please feel free to write them.

I thank you for giving me forum to write of the heroes of that night,

Stephen Rothman
Governor of Trolls bane

Maybe I should restate that my intention was to get some other people thinking as well. Or does no one else care if the town goes to the dogs?

And Scipio, I don't want your vote. I don't want to be governor of any town, or was my proposal for a non-monarch government not clear enough?

--DL

People care, they just do not have the same ideals as you.

~Brer Beothach~

They don't have to have my ideals. I asked for them to come forth and present their own damn ideals. I'm going on thee times repeating this now, but they say repetition is the surest way to teach the mentally deficient.

--DL

So, shall others repeat their ideals again?

~Brer Beothach~

Firstly, to be a citizen of Trollsbane should require more than just adding a name to the list, or else anyone who wants to enjoy the benefits of a guard can sign up without contributing to the town at all. There should be some guidelines set: For example, to become a citizen, one should live in Trollsbane for at least three months prior to requesting citizenship ((1 month RL)), and one should also complete six hours ((2 hours RL)) of community service benefitting the town. This can be in the form of planting seeds, renovating damaged buildings, even taking a full shift (by which I mean, actually doing something besides walking around and looking threateningly at people) on the town guard.

This is a fine idea, but there is no reason for someone fresh from the docks to want to live in Trolls bane if they must wait 3 months, fixing parts of the town (That are rarely destroyed) before they can be apart of the city. They would sooner move to Varshikar that already has established housing and is going to expand it’s lands. Also, having them renovate buildings, (assuming you would also want to build houses, shops as we are preparing to do), would make the houses be less personally owned and more town owned. The point of having houses is so that a person can own it and do what they want with it so long as they pay the monthly land owner tax.

Once citizenship is established, we run into a problem: In order to provide for the people, the town needs funding, but the people need an income in order to provide this funding. I propose that a system of guilds and trades be properly established - I know we have a carpenters guild floating around out there somewhere, and we could incorporate a system where a Guild is established and becomes the sole provider of a given good to the town. By this, I do not mean that citizens can only buy from this trader - I mean that for municipal purposes (example, weapons for the guards, materials to rebuild the shop, etc) all goods would be bought from the guilds, but in turn these guilds would guarantee a set discounted price for these tasks. They would make this up in volume. Also, the guilds would be able to take apprentices only from the existing citizen list, thus ensuring that the jobs in the city were taken only by its people, and employing the citizens.


Any citizen employed in such a guild would owe a tax to the city, which would be collected quarterly ((Every 1 month RL)), and which would be relevant to his level in the guild. For example, since a Master Carpenter would hold more contracts, he would be taxed a higher amount than a Novice in the same guild. For a beginning guideline, I would suggest a range of 50 copper pieces per quarter for a Novice, up to 2 silver pieces per quarter for a Master.



These taxes would pay for equipment, guards' salary, and, yes, the governments' salary.

Again this is a good idea, but this would not make sense. Why would a guild want to start paying Trolls Bane? What advantage is there for them to pay Trolls Bane a tax? The current system makes more sense for all parties. If you own land in Trolls bane and its surrounding lands you must pay a tax to maintain ownership of the land. It is fair for everyone and it forces no one, (as this forces craftsmen) to pay the money they worked for to the town.
The rest on this topic does become mute, as you slightly force people who wouldn’t normally have to pay taxes, (as if anyone wants to learn a craft they must join these guilds and these guilds must pay taxes), and as such less people would want to join Trolls Bane when they can either teach themselves or be taught by someone up in Varshikar or another city.
We do agree though at the end, the taxes should go to the guard’s salary and the government’s salary, but somehow you missed construction and expansion of Trolls Bane. I will not assume you don’t want to expand Trolls bane, I think you just forgot to write that.

Citizens who are unemployed or work for private guilds would not be taxed, but also would not be eligible for the same benefits as taxpaying citizens as outlined below:

Taxpaying citizens would receive additional benefits including: Free stay at the Seahorse Inn, The ability to have reimbursements of proveable theft returned to them by the government in the case that the government is unable to apprehend the criminal within a reasonable time period of three weeks ((1 week RL)), up to 500 coppers or items of similar value. Taxpaying citizens would also be provided with one medium-to-good quality weapon for hunting purposes every year ((RL 4 months)). This weapon would be the citizen's choice from a Simple Dagger, Serinjah Sword, or Mace, and would be in decent quality, of course.

This part of your proposal shows some promise but also worries me. Let me address first what worries me, by having tax paying citizens and non tax paying citizens you are establishing a class system. I am fine with allowing free trade and people to be individually wealthy while others must work to earn coin, but I think separating the town like that is dangerous and wrong. What also worries me is that you would force the owner of the Sea Horse, whom is Sir Thomas Teifensee to allow tax paying citizens to stay in his inn for free. Keep in mind he bought and paid for this inn and owns it much like Eliza or Sorgan own their shops. What I do like though is that people whom are stolen from are reimbursed by the government of Trolls Bane if the thief who stole from them is not found. This is a very real possibility in the near future. And concerning giving out weaponry, I do not think every citizen of Trolls Bane wants a weapon, many of our merchants and tradesmen would have no reason to accept a serinjah sword; however currently as always any person interested in a weapon can speak to me and go to Salathe to be trained.

This leads to the government - how would laws be decided upon and enforced? I propose a sytem where four officials are elected by the citizens. ONLY citizens may vote in these elections, and I would also suggest that the Citizen list be closed for three months ((RL 1 month)) prior to a scheduled election, to prevent people from becoming citizens only to have a say in the election and then become inactive. The officials would be elected every year ((4 months RL)), being given each time six weeks to campaign ((2 weeks RL)) using only private funding. The officials would be:

1) Record Keeper ~ This person is responsible for keeping the Citizens List updated, and recording town laws as well as recording minutes at town meetings. Any disputed with regards to interpretation of laws, or listings on the citizens list would be brought to this person first.
2) Tax Collector ~ This person would be responsible for collecting taxes and any other incoming funds to the town (For example, if a vendor had a contract to be allowed to compete with the guilds in town for a fee of 100 coppers a month, the Tax Collector wouldcollect it)
3) Treasurer ~ This person would be responsible for any outgoing funds - That is, paying salaries, doling out money to taxpayers who have been robbed and were unable to recover their funds. The reason for a separatin of offices for incoming and outgoing money, is to decrease the chances that corruption would cause the books to be kept incorrectly by one seeking to line their own pockets.
4)Overseer ~ This position would entail keeping an eye on the other three positions, and ensuring the town operates smoothly. This person, while holding the supreme vote, CAN be overruled if the other three officers vote unanimously.

Each of the four positions would be paid a salary of 1 silver piece a quarter to begin, since the town is on rocky footing, but this salary could be increased through a vote later on.

This has been tried before with the Triumvirate, and it failed with the Triumvirate when only 4 citizens would vote. And Earl of the Rose Lennier has stressed to me how poorly the public will react to a government so bland and stretched. We currently have a Record Keeper though with a different name, Magistrate; as well as Tax Collector whom is Allen; and Overseer/treasure is Governor on account of every coin the Governor makes or gets goes to the town. The Magistrate of Trolls Bane also is apart of the court system, which appears to have no role whatsoever in your government proposal, is the town guard supposed to be play guard, judge and executioner? But I go off topic.
Voting for every position and even finding people interested enough in putting their life into the town will be difficult, I am not saying there will none interested in answer the call, but 4 men or women who would want to work together and would not butt heads over their various issues? And besides everyone would want to overseer and none would want to be the Tax Collector because his job is undercut by the treasurer and all jobs are undercut by the Overseer.
Currently only citizens can vote in the votes which can range from New Governors, to Laws, to Foreign Policy and I think this is far more effective then having a swinging door sort of government. After all, one year per regime is not very long at all; it takes time to feel confident in your position before you begin to do things for the town such as building and expanding it.

Bringing me to votes: A town meeting should be held once every quarter ((month)). ALL citizens are allowed to vote, but taxpaying citizens would have 1.5 votes each, where a non-taxpaying citizen would receive only 1 vote each. Any issue to be made into law would be voted on in a majority-rules basis, and then enfored by the officers.

Again this proposal worries me, that you would want a more powerful class in Trolls Bane. By giving tax paying citizens more power then a citizen of Trolls Bane, you strengthen a class system in our beloved city. You pander to the money owners of Trolls Bane and do not stand for the common people of Trolls Bane, the leather worker, the farmer, the warrior, the people who do not earn a dozen silvers a day from steady trade and must therefore watch where they spend their coin. I strongly oppose your voting proposal.

And finally, since it raised so much debate before - On the salary of Town Guards: Guards would be paid in what I deem a very fair manner - by the work they do. Each full day a guard patrols ((2 hours RL)) he will receive a pay ranging from 20 coppers to 50 coppers, depending on his rank in the guard. Also, when a town guard apprehends a thief and returns the stolen goods to a citizen, the guard would be paid from the treasury 10% of the value of the reovered goods. When a murderer has been caught, the guard will receive 50 coppers, if the murderer is proved guilty in a fair trial.

The amount of money the Town Guard is paid is ample considering that the coin value is on top of free armor, free training, unlimited potions and also free board in the prison house once it is completed; when you count all that in, the Town Guard is paid ample. It is strange that you, Lady Lioness have spoken so ill of the Town Guard, since they began to be paid, they were mercenaries in your eyes; that when they do their job they get bonuses? The members of the Town Guard are not dogs you feed treats when they do good things. You pay them well for the job they do, the job that keeps Trolls bane safe from foreign invaders and murderers. Since the Town Guard has begun to be paid, not a single murder has been committed within the walls of Trolls Bane; that should say a lot to how effective the Town Guard, in conjunction with the Knighthood of Trolls Bane, is.
The Knighthood is paid in similar fashion save for coin, the members of the Knighthood of Trolls Bane, (which strangely you have dismissed entirely I do not know why), are taught a trade of their choice and are helped to master that trade. This is also costly.



I hope I have made this clear, in due time I will show what the current Government of Trolls Bane is. How the Court System works, specific jobs, payments and so on.

With equal intensity to find a fair and balanced government for Trolls Bane,
Stephen Rothman
Governor of Trolls Bane