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The Government of Trolls Bane is interested in what the citizens of Trolls Bane feel about key issues. So here on this scroll we wish for every citizen of Trolls Bane to exercise their right to express their feelings through the power of the vote. All save the Governor and the Vice-Governor may vote.

Issue 1: Taxing Property Owners - Do you feel Property Owners of Trolls Bane should be taxed so the government may fund the town guard and further building Trolls Bane new shops, houses and long walls ?


Issue 2: The Tavern - If the owner of the Tavern does not show up, or refuses to pay taxes for the building, should the Government of Trolls Bane put the building up to auction for citizens of Trolls Bane alone ?

Issue 3: New Property Laws - Should more laws be enstated concerning property, such as required active owners, building size regulations, and so on ?


Please vote yes or no on these three issues. Your feelings on the issues will greatly effect the way the Government shapes the future of Trolls Bane.



Stephen Rothman
Governor of Trolls Bane

Personally, I believe there should be reforms to the way property is handled. It has never been done in a decent manner, and it leads to many complications, like the seahorse inn, and such. If things could be written down, it would make it a lot easier.

F

1.Yes. Merchants of town make alot in reselling items sold for almost nothing.

2.Yes. Should they not pay they likely would not notice it was auctioned off anyway, last time I saw a dwarf in there was years ago aside from Borgate.

3.Mainly concerning owners, I think other issues have not a point in discussion right now, maybe later they will.

Georgius

Don't ye be touching our tavern! We payed for tha an ye aint taking it fa ya personal benifit.

Belgram

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hp?t=18570

signed by: Fluffy Sheep Taverne

Issue 1: Yes because i am a town guard and i deserve a little for my work. I could not care if i didn't ethier. I'm just trying to protect da town.

Issue 2: Yes because it is on the lands ob Trolls Bane.

Issue 3: Yes just like above.

Karguk Inkathurg

Recruit of the Trolls Bane Town Guard

Until now i do not see any list about what the "owners of property" have to pay in matter of your tax. But in the same moment you plan to find new owners for the tavern because you think the current owners do not pay your tax?

This way of thinking and acting is wrong!

Present us your system of taxes before you think about punishments!

--------------
Lennier
Earl of the Grey Rose

Well, Its not a debating topic Lennier, its a voting one.


1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Yes

1. No, the current trollsbane government had absolutely no hand in the construction of these buildings, so i see no right that this self proclaimed government has to ask these owners for tax.
2. No, Same as a above
3. Yes, for all properties that are to built in the future, and that this government plays a hand in the construction of

~Salathe Kankas

Issue 1
Yes, for merchants and shops. Reguardless of who built it, it is one city property.

Issue 2
If what I've heard about the owner is correct then yes the tavern should be aution, but the owner must be given notification before the aution, and the reasons why it was autioned.

Issue 3
Yes.

Leto Mahn

1. No

2. No

3. Yes

Sir G.

1. No. To tax other's property, is a raid. Offer a service which makes the tax a benefit for both parties, then it will be rightful. Make this tax as a form of treaty between government and every building owner, since every building has another purpose.
So to such forms of taxes : yes.

For example : The order of the Grey Light has built the library to be a public place with an open private part, and so it shall stay. It is, so to say, a free and usually permanent loan from the order to the public. To tax it would be illogical, and doing so would somewhat force the order to change its free use, since the order has no income to counter a tax.

2. No, the tavern was thought not to be on troll's banes ground until this ground was extended. An auction would 1. be unrightful and 2. likely to cause a war between the dwarves and the government of Troll's Bane. Another solution is needed.

3. Yes, that is a useful thing for all new buildings the government is involved with.

I suggest the government builds new buildings, and rents or auctions and taxes these.

-Damien

1: Taxes are needed. - Yes.

2: The Tavern is property of Silverbrand. - No.

3: I have no opinion regarding this.

Brother Markous

Issue 1: Taxing Property Owners - Yes, I feel taxes are a neccesary source of income in order to allow the town to prosper, and as such I believe building owners should be taxed of their land accordingly, else forfiet those buildings to the ownership of the government itself.

Issue 2: The Tavern - Yes, the Tavern lies on the land of Trollsbane, and is therefore subject to its laws, if the Dwarves are unable to comply with the rules of ownership that apply to all property owners in Trollsbane the tavern should be once again considered property of the government and dealt with accordingly.

Issue 3: New Property Laws - Yes, it is important due to the limited space within Trollsbane that all new buildings are regulated and built according to those regulations. Active owners are essential, as otherwise taxes will lapse, and once again the property should be considered under ownership of the government of Trollsbane.

Balamos

If the building is private or it charges fees to use then yes, it should be taxed. If it is public and free for everyone to use all their services, then no.

Not the moment they neglect taxes. They seem to be ready to pay a small fee. We should be reasonable, wait a while for them to neglect a few taxes and such.

These are not votes since I am an official, but merely thoughts on the issues.


Brer Beothach

Issue one: Yes
Issue two: Yes. For the building does now indeed reside on trollsbane soil, and as such must pay taxes, else the town can claim the building as its own.

Issue three: yes.

As for the tavern, again, it resides on trollsbane soil and is owned by another kingdom, this kingdom has Merchants and a building on trollsbane soil. A tax is the most logicall option, for the kingdom is gaining profit from the building, but again without the Merchants and building the kingdom of Silverbrand would be without. So again, a tax is only logical, for allowing them to own a trade facility on our soil.

Revlen,
Captain of the guard

Well, ofcoure the government should be able to tax people in order to keep us safe.

I think that issue three should go forward first and then if the owners of buildings don't come forward and pay their taxes and speak up, then the building should be assumed abandoned.

If a building is abandoned the goverment should find a better person to run it I think.

How about voting on the legitimacy of Troll's Bane current "government"?

unsigned

A small note is attatched

I hearby state my answers regarding the current vote:

Issue 1: My answer to this question is immediately yes, I believe it is vital that the town guard, especially, have more funding.

Issue 2: This was a hard question to answer, but I would have to say yes. This would simply be because if the barman does not attend work as he should then it may lead to stressful times for Borgate.

Issue 3: I believe yet again my answer must be yes. The reason has already been stated by other citizens.

Signed,

Boremier

yes, one of the few ways the goverment gets money for developing our town.

yes, I don't want any locked up vacant buildings in troll's Bane.


~Allen~

I do not feel I will agree with how much taxation will be allocated to the town guard, so I am inclined to say no to the first proposition. I also must highlight Sir Kankas' point - The current government has had absolutely no hand in the construction of any of the standing buildings today, therefore they should not be allowed to dictate taxation on them. Those who have owned these buildings longer than the current existing government should be respected as the rightful owners and their property lines be exempt from taxation under this current rule. Taxes (if this law is passed) should be spent on agricultural improvements and other such things, not protection from entities which remain unknown to this day.


In regards to the tavern within Troll's Bane's walls... the tavern has existed and been in the possession of Silverbrand since long before there were even walls surrounding our diverse city. It has forever been the property of Silverbrand and should remain as such. Never before has its ownership outside the walls been questioned until the day money is brought into the equation. Quite a greedy idea, it would seem. I think that the tavern should remain untaxed until such a time that the Fluffy Sheep Tavern can be either relocated stone by stone, or negotiations can be set up between the king of Silverbrand and the governor of Troll's Bane. A personal meeting should be arranged before such a drastic decision is made. Silverbrand and Troll's Bane once had very friendly standings with each other. Now, it is like two like-aged brothers who want nothing to do with each other. It is disheartening and uncouth. So, in regards to the second proposition, no.

For law three, I would say that the only way I would say yes to it is if it did not apply to buildings that have been owned by the same person for years. New construction, feel free to enstate new laws. Old work, let it alone. Respect those who have been here long, long before you, Governor Rothman. Do that, and you may actually gain my trust.

Sincerely,
Cain S. Freemont

You speak as though this all depends on who has been on the island longer. A king shouldn't bow down to a peasent just because the king is younger, Nor should Stephen let owners go untaxed because they have been around longer.

The tavern is inside City walls and should be taxed like everyone else.

~Allen~

You speak as though this all depends on who has been on the island longer. A king shouldn't bow down to a peasent just because the king is younger, Nor should Stephen let owners go untaxed because they have been around longer.

The tavern is inside City walls and should be taxed like everyone else.

~Allen~

The tavern was originally off of trollsbane land, but trollsbane extended its land around the tavern and put its walls around it.

~Salathe Kankas

No
No
Yes

~GyB

It is like Salathe wrote it. Tha Tavern got build on land not belongin' to Trolls Bane. One day they started to build a wall around tha Tavern, an' immediately it was on Trolls Bane land.
That day, it hasn't disturbed us, since we had good relationships with Trolls Bane, an' noone tried to rip us of. Now, a self proclaimed Governor who never cam' to us to hav' any diplomatic relationships, an' even once tried to overthrow tha dwarven king, taxes us for our tavern.
for somethin' that got sourrounded by walls without askin' us. An' with tha same breath, he says tha tavern will be sold if we don't pay taxes.

That is in our eyes an criminal act. We never will allow anyone to sell our property, nor do we accept that taxes. He has not tha right to tax tha tavern. Especially after he never com' to us an' talked with us about it. Never he mentioned to us what he plans, or asked us for our opinion.

No, one day he just writes at his townwall that we hav' to pay taxes to him, or he steals our property! He don't even told us how much we hav' to pay!

Silverbrand won't allow an' accept that!

An' it seems Stephen forgot that it was we dwarves who helped to build up tha Trolls bane ya hav' today! We build tha tavern ya hav' an' use for ya peoples, we helped to build tha library ya call now ya property! An' after all we did someone who made himself governor com's an' wants US to pay money for OUR property that we offer ya citizens of Trolls Bane to use? We payed alot of money for it. We made it possible that ya town has a tavern, a place of merry gatherin's an' times. an' now ya want to rip off money from us!

Never Silverbrand will accept that! We see no right of Stephen to do that!

King Ghorn

Ghorn,

I can sympathize with your anger to a point, but it seems that legacy is passed on to dwarves but not in trollsbane. It has been argued that since we did not construct these buildings, we hold no right to tax them. Yet, you obtain former glories from predecessors, this seems a bit unfair.

Admist this hectic time of indecisiveness, I extend a formal invitation for you to have a small meeting with me. I can be found in town by the shop if you accept. I hope to see you soon, maybe we can fix these hasty indiscretions.

~Brer Beothach~
Magistrate of Trollsbane

Poots wrote:You speak as though this all depends on who has been on the island longer. A king shouldn't bow down to a peasent just because the king is younger, Nor should Stephen let owners go untaxed because they have been around longer.

The tavern is inside City walls and should be taxed like everyone else.

~Allen~

Troll's Bane controls the land around the tavern, not the tavern itself.
I believe that landowners should be taxed, but the tavern should not. How may you see to tax something that isn't even yours? I do still see how taxing landowners could help grow funds for the town guard etc.
Also, yes to changing regulations.

Signed,
Raphael Fortescue.

A fine idea Raphael. Maybe if they refuse the tax Troll's Bane shall meerly not proceed with the Tavern's upkeep.

Artian