Illarion.org

I realize that some of these are in other threads, however I feel that since they are in multiple threads, it would be considerably easier and better-read if they were all placed in one thread. Since no such topic truly exists yet, here it is. Feel free to add on, if it is in tune with the thread.

Concerns for Monsters:

Wolves: They move fast. Too fast. Too, too fast. I realize that wolves are quite fast on their feet in real life, however I find it painstakingly annoying to have to run away from them whenever I want to go somewhere, ultimately having to log out with characters that do not have the skills to fight them off. I have one character who would be able to fight a wolf, but he died and lacks funds to replace the lost armour. I realize I could take the several weeks it would take to acquire the necessary skills to kill wolves easily, but with all of my characters? My characters range from decent, to total noob. I think that I have a fair understanding of how newer players would feel, along with others who have (or have lost) a mediocre amount of possessions.

Goblin archers: Only real concerns are that they seem unaffected by the mountains they walk and that their arrows are quite powerful. I understand that if they live in the mountains, they should be unaffected by the terrain, or much less affected, but generally elves have a tendency to live in forested areas, or at least are more knowledgeable of them and yet elven characters do not walk faster in forests, nor do orcs or dwarves in mountains.

Bandits: They can steal literally while attacking you? At least, that's how it seems. I would like to know how you can be evading blows, stabbing someone, and reaching into your coinpurse all at the same time. This seems like it needs some rethinking.



Concerns with skills and related:

Grapes: It now requires a harvesting skill to acquire grapes from vines? This seems silly, as it is very easy to identify a grape from another berry. Various herbs and needing herb lore to understand which plants are which? Certainly! However, when I pluck an apple from a tree, I know it is an apple. When I pull cherries off a tree, I know I'm going to get cherries. If I pluck a grape, I know its a grape.

Simple daggers: They are piercing weapons now? For a while I have been using them and gaining slashing from them (this is going off my considerably higher slashing weapons skill, versus my very recently acquired piercing weapon skill). If they looked they had a more needle-like appearance, maybe I would be understanding of this change.

Skillgain in general in relation to increased combat difficulty: In light of the recent changes to the fighting system, I am finding it considerably more costly (breaking items, dying, etc.) to even defeat simple enemies. It does not seem like the skill gained from fighting is up to par with this new standard for taking on opponents.

Tactics: No idea what it does. Doesn't seem to affect anything. An explanation on this would be incredibly appreciated.


Suggestions for monsters:

Wolves: Slow them down a bit. I think that by doing so, it would be far less annoying when you need to make a quick escape from such a creature.

Goblins: Using the same method for allowing the goblins to move quickly on their terrain, provide specific races with that distinction. Allow elves to move more quickly in forests, dwarves and orcs to move more quickly through mountainous regions and halflings to move faster through plains. Humans generally don't excel in these regions (by definition) and lizards, well, we don't quite have swimming as a skill yet, so we needn't worry about them right now. If not allowing this suggestion, then perhaps remove the ability for goblins to move swiftly through mountains. This will at least offer a means of potential escape for those who are unable to just charge in and bash the shit out of the beasts.

Bandits: Offer a delay for everytime they attempt at theft. Put in a decent failure rate for bandit theft. I think a combination of those two would prove more sensible. If neither of those, perhaps only allowing them to 'loot a corpse' would do the trick. Just some food for thought and I would appreciate some consideration in this matter.


Suggestions for skills and related:

Grapes: Make them once again and no longer a part of herb lore. It seems incredibly redundant to have grapes a harvesting item, when cherries and apples are not.

Simple daggers: Change the graphic to at least look more like the skill it is associated with (since we can't actually choose to have our characters slash or stab with any weapon really) or change the daggers back to a slashing weapon.

Skillgain in general in relation to increased combat difficulty: Reduce combat difficulty, make items more durable/effective, or increase skillgain related directly to fighting at least a small portion to even out the somewhat frustrating gap by a little bit.

Tactics: Explain!!!

Cain Freemont wrote:Simple daggers: Change the graphic to at least look more like the skill it is associated with (since we can't actually choose to have our characters slash or stab with any weapon really) or change the daggers back to a slashing weapon.

If you can get a simple dagger, you can probobly get a serinjah sword. Daggers are not slashing weapons, its as simple as that really. How can you look more associated with stabbing than being very short and tapered to a point?

As it stands, the simple dagger looks like it could be geared towards either slashing or stabbing with. Since we don't have the choice as to what it is, I suggested that it be a slashing weapon, since it has been in the past. The regular dagger looks absolutely nothing like something you would stab with, rather more like a shortsword.

Thanks for contributing, even if it was plucking out one thing you disagree with and commenting on that specifically.

"Goblins: Using the same method for allowing the goblins to move quickly on their terrain, provide specific races with that distinction. Allow elves to move more quickly in forests, dwarves and orcs to move more quickly through mountainous regions and halflings to move faster through plains. Humans generally don't excel in these regions (by definition) and lizards, well, we don't quite have swimming as a skill yet, so we needn't worry about them right now. If not allowing this suggestion, then perhaps remove the ability for goblins to move swiftly through mountains. This will at least offer a means of potential escape for those who are unable to just charge in and bash the shit out of the beasts."


I would say I have to agree here and i've been trying to get this done before, although it was my idea to put halflings super quick on farmland and fertille land as they have big feet so don't sink and maybe humans quicker on paths.

There is no way to have a race behave different than another race when it comes to moving speed.

Martin

Then why do Goblins move freely through mountains while we are restricted to considerably slowed movement?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/ ... s/dags.jpg

We are looking at different daggers. Simple dagger is the 3rd from the left, ornate dagger is furthest on the right. Yes I agree it is rather large, but its blade is about as wide as a butter knife's.
I was going for something like a stiletto which as you can tell is fairly long but very thin:
http://netlinkenterprises.com/proddetai ... rod=SH1217
http://www.darksword-armory.com/images/1805.jpg

Cain Freemont wrote:Then why do Goblins move freely through mountains while we are restricted to considerably slowed movement?

No idea.
I believe that this is a missperception of yours.

Martin

I vouch that it definitely is not. ...A misconception, that is. :S

From left to right, the third one, yes. That's the simple dagger. At least, that's what it said last I checked it. It looks like it could be interpretted as a slashing weapon. That was my perception of it anyway. The stiletto (ornate dagger) I completely understand as being a piercing weapon.

I timed them now.
Goblin for 6 tiles of
rock: ~5,50 s
forrest: ~5,30 s
grass: ~2,50 s

So who's going to tell me now that they "don't slow down" on rocks?

Martin

I will maintain that as I walked along the grass, one chased me in the mountains and stayed even with me the whole time. And I was not encumbered, nor slowed by anything in my path.
This is where my statement came from. Perhaps they slow, but comparatively it seems very little to any other race I have encountered on that terrain.

Avareniah wrote:I will maintain that as I walked along the grass, one chased me in the mountains and stayed even with me the whole time.

But that's relative speed. Noone said that relative speed may change, that's rather obvious.

Martin

Grapes:
The reason for this is pretty simple.
Its Irmas, first month of the fall. In this time there are lesser fruits everywhere, so they are harder to find.

The values for the seasons are placed in a pretty...standart way. For every plant the same, more or less.

If someone wants to develop a better system there, (no scripting knowledge needed) should send me a pm.


Simple Daggers: They were slashing weapons only by misstake. I think this more logical if all daggers are puncture.

Tactics: Everything in a fight is affected by this skill. Yes.

Nitram

Daggers can easily be slashed with. They have a blade that is charp down the edges. Unlike a Rapier, which the only useable part is the very tip, hence its only useable to pierce.

I have a dagger at home, and if I sharpen it, I am sure that I could then go out into the world and walk up to people and slash at them, and do damage. (I wouldn't actually do this.)

IN RL most swords which can be used for slashing, you can stab with as well....

So its not realistic to have weapons which use two types... daggers are stabing... the end..

Quinasa wrote:Right. But you're missing the point. They said daggers are now piercing weapons. End of story. I really don't understand the problem here.

And you can stop being a b*tch. I actually did not see Nitram's post before I made mine.

Pocal wrote:And you can stop being a b*tch. I actually did not see Nitram's post before I made mine.

Hey I know this is off the topic at hand, but dont you think thats a tad harsh?

Pocal? Shut up. Daggers are piercing weapons. This was said by devs. It makes sense. Stop disputing it.

Pocal wrote:

Quinasa wrote:Right. But you're missing the point. They said daggers are now piercing weapons. End of story. I really don't understand the problem here.

And you can stop being a b*tch. I actually did not see Nitram's post before I made mine.

Sure buddy, but seeing as how he made his post 6 hours before you made your's its still your own fault for not reading before posting and one reading your post (seeing as how it came after Nitram's) might figure that you actually read what you were posting to. I wasn't being a bitch, but I'll be a bitch when I want to be. My post was directed at everyone, not JUST you. ;] To continue arguing over the issue is just ridiculous.

You can call it ridiculous if you want, but at least it was being presented in a manner that showed genuine concern. Before this topic turned to shit (thanks guys), I had hopes that my concerns and suggestions would actually be addressed. I guess now that I have finally experienced just how much of assholes some of you can be in regard to when someone genuinely wants to offer ideas, well, smile it. I can go back to being a grouch without desire to help, because I know just how horrible many of you act. Most of you just go around kissing the asses of everyone who work for the game. You act all high and mighty, like your ass-kissing grants you some better status than everyone else. And maybe it does. But frankly, I'd rather not have my face stained just so I can act like the rest of the hoity-toity, asshole crowd that seems to be rapidly growing.

Cain Freemont wrote:Goblin archers: that their arrows are quite powerful

We found just a day ago that constitution was not factored in when using bows, I hope these goblins don't do so much damage anymore. I recall from my own experience wearing average-quite good armor they did alot when they did hit.

your all takeing this a bit too seriously.

Cain Freemont wrote:You can call it ridiculous if you want, but at least it was being presented in a manner that showed genuine concern. Before this topic turned to shit (thanks guys), I had hopes that my concerns and suggestions would actually be addressed. I guess now that I have finally experienced just how much of assholes some of you can be in regard to when someone genuinely wants to offer ideas, well, smile it. I can go back to being a grouch without desire to help, because I know just how horrible many of you act. Most of you just go around kissing the asses of everyone who work for the game. You act all high and mighty, like your ass-kissing grants you some better status than everyone else. And maybe it does. But frankly, I'd rather not have my face stained just so I can act like the rest of the hoity-toity, asshole crowd that seems to be rapidly growing.

I actually liked the first post and thought it was well thought out and helpful.

Nitram wrote:Grapes:
The reason for this is pretty simple.
Its Irmas, first month of the fall. In this time there are lesser fruits everywhere, so they are harder to find.

Forgive me, but this is the same old story for me: Something is ment to become more rare and precious, so, what do we do? Increase the number of clicks one needs to get it. Nothing against your or anyone else's work on Illarion, but maybe you can think about something more sophisticated? I mean, just have a look at mining. While the two actions (herb gathering and mining) are quite similar in terms of gameplay, they are totally different in terms of scripting. Unifying such actions could save work and increase the overall look and feel of Illarion. It is the same with crafting, some actions require to use a tool, others require to use a raw material and some others require to use a tool with a raw material.

Seasons are a fine thing, I'd suggest to implement "regrowth" - just like it was done for rocks. Unify those two scripts in terms of action point loss, rates of success, gatherable goods and so on. Since it is possible to add new graphics to the client, custom graphics are eligible.

At plants where you see the fruits...yes. There this would be needed. Everything else is fine with the current script, i think.

Noob wanting to add something here [don't flame please].

All sharpened blades have the capiablity to slash and stab, what type of blade, shape and size determines how good they are at slahing and stabbing.

For example you could slash someone with a longsword but you can also impale them into your foe. And with daggers you can either stab someone with them and also be able to slit their throat with the same weapon.

This whole Slashing and Pircing Weapons is very confusing and slightly illogial. The combat skills should be like other RPGs: Swords, Maces/Staffs, Axes and Bows.

GURPS damage system:
Weapons that are pushed forward to attack (e.g. spears) can inflict crushing or impaling damage (depends on weapon), swung weapons can inflict crushing or impaling/stabbing or cutting/slashing damage.

The problem is this

If you're good at delivering quick stabs, it doesn't mean that you can slash with it as well.

Its bascially the same motion.

Also, its a tad too late to change everything