Characters with texture

[Faladron]

The client has exactly one avatar for every race and gender to be displayed to other players.

Do you think that's enough for others to guess what your character is like?

Personally I dislike the situations with 5 human people in-game and basically the only thing that seperates them from each other is their name they will gladly tell you, even if you have not asked for it, regardless what type of character you play.

The thing I like best about Illarion is the #me command and its endless possibilities to help describe your character, emphasize his actions and give away your characters full personality by describing how he's reacting in certain situations.

I noticed that a big part (not all) of players seem to forget about all the possibilities the #me has to offer and I'm fed up with being the only one adding texture to the game, typing lines and lines of character description and descriptions of gesture and mimics in talks with receiving none or next to no response.

Furthermore I'm fed up with describing my character and what he's doing when greater groups of people are around.

I believe the other PO's would enjoy receiving some descriptions of what is happening around their character, at least I would but the response from others is meager and I'm certainly not playing Illarion for other people's entertainment and typing #me's like a madman for others.

If we all refrain from using descriptive #me's the game will grow dull and boring (as it is now already at times) and I will stop even bothering to write #me's myself.

[Llama]

The best way to get people to #me is to force them to do so; by #me ing an action they will have to reply to

For example don't just drag an item and give it to them, for they can easily drag it into the depot and forget the #me; instead

#me tosses it to the X
#me holds it out to him

Personally, I never found problems with other's #meing...

[Errian Abêth]

I think this problem will be solved with the new Java Client coming, but not quite sure..

[Faladron]

I'm not talking about those lame

#me eats an apple.
#me takes the XYZ

I'm talking about something like

#me frowns lightly and his eyes flicker, but he tries to stay calm.

while in a talk about something unpleasant

about a..

#me is a man/woman/elf/w.e. and appears to be [in his mid twenties/late 40ies/of untellable age yet his features are stern and cold]. He wears [regular clothes/expensive wardrobe/a breastplate with a strange symbol on it]. His eyes are [grey blue and stinging cold/ of a warm brown and seem friendly and honest, just as the rest of his features/ red and wicked, one would start to shiver when being stared at with].

to describe who that other guy there actually is!

Some details about clothings, scars, small things that make that character unique, things that will make the other PO's think "If I saw that guy would I REALLY just come up and talk to him like I am just deciding whether my character would?".

Thanks for completely misunderstanding my point Hadrian,
I don't think stuff like #me opens the chest, then closes it and
walks outside. #me picks an apple and eats it. are signs of roleplay.

[Faladron]

I think this problem will be solved with the new Java Client coming, but not quite sure..

If some players are too lazy to write and actually think a little about their characters (and yes I'm deliberately provoking here) a new client won't change anything unless it'd play for you automatically.

There's a change of attitude needed in the whole playerbase IMHO.

[Errian Abêth]

I agree, it is quite annoying to write the same description for 30 times until everyone ingame knows what you are looking like...but as I said, I think there will be a function to ease that (one already has to give a description of the character when creating it) and I think hot keys or at least copy and paste (someone already used that after all) will be possible.

What we should not forget is imagination...sometimes it is nice to not know everything about the one next to you...everyone sees the people different if there is given a description of letters and no picture shown.
Sometimes it's even better to not know what the other ones look like.

edit:

If some players are too lazy to write and actually think a little about their characters (and yes I'm deliberately provoking here) a new client won't change anything unless it'd play for you automatically.

Many aren't. Yesterday 5 of 5 whom I played with gave descriptions and if one starts to tell what he looks like many other always like to join.

[Keikan Hiru]

The Java Client will allow you to store some #me's.
This could be helpful if you dont want to type like mad and you have always some #me's ready for some general situation.

Especialy a "Discribe Self" can be done with just a few clicks or by pushing the correct button.

Will that be helpful for you?

[Irania]

Ecspecially for those such as "the elf clad in blue"

[Llama]

Ecspecially for those such as "the elf clad in blue"

(*Innocent Whistle*)

[Sancho]

I'm really looking forward to that new feature. Its a real pain writing long #me's, especially because I am not too fast at writing and english isnt my native language.

I am working hard to get all my 10-fingers working. Writing long #me with 2 fingers, just doent work.

[Zach Bora]

I am working hard to get all my 10-fingers working. Writing long #me with 2 fingers, just doent work.

Or just go faster with those 2. I do not use all my 10 fingers but I try to type very fast.

[Arameh]

Yeah i always type with only 2 fingers and when i want i can type really fast.

[Korwin]

#me is a man/woman/elf/w.e. and appears to be [in his mid twenties/late 40ies/of untellable age yet his features are stern and cold]. He wears [regular clothes/expensive wardrobe/a breastplate with a strange symbol on it]. His eyes are [grey blue and stinging cold/ of a warm brown and seem friendly and honest, just as the rest of his features/ red and wicked, one would start to shiver when being stared at with].

I hate this. I hate it even more when this is expected of a player. More and more I find that players are unwilling to wait for a subtle description, and badger you for a giant, ugly, lump summation of your character.

Honestly, I could care less if you're seven feet tall with vicious grey eyes. I don't care if I'm just buying a bundle of grain from you. Save it for when there's some significance, like when we're about to fight, or you're intimidating me.

I much prefer gradual hints throughout a conversation, something with tact. Things like; Jill Smith figets with her threadbare sleeve, Joe Everyman scratches his ragged beard, Blat Antnecromancer purses his fetid lips. I don't want to have someone spew their entire character description on me, then expect me to do the same when we may just have a passing encounter.

If I see that sort of 'one shot' description in a book, I know I'm in for a rough ride. Considering the story-telling nature of roleplaying, I don't like to see word lumps here either.

[Zhauvalea]

Don't think you're the only one, though. Imagine playing a lady with a shaven head and an eyepatch. Those sorts of things are immediately noticeable, so I have to make sure every last person notices it as much as they would in real life.

It sometimes gets to be a hassle. Like when Zhaffie was wanted by the law I had to keep my description written up in order to hit enter if anyone got anywhere near me in order to be fair so that people could catch me.

I do see a lot more people using descriptive #mes, though. What urks me on the other hand is this:

Player: Greetings
Player: You there?
Player: Hello?
Player: Hm
Me pulls off her helmet to reveal a shaven head. Her left eye is adorned with an eyepatch and her face is full of determination. Underneath her dark, feathered cloak hides makeshift armor. She snaps out of her ponderings to say "Greetings."

Give me some time to #me, folks. This isn't a race! =)

[Arameh]

Yeah sometime peoples ask us when we are wroting soemthing and leave after 20 seconds...from whjat i have seen very few peoples are staying ig inactives until they are n00bs, so give us a minute . And yeah...it depend a lot for the description, Zhauvalea character has to say it often cause its really noticeable, but its true im not describing my char to every uncknown characters i see, only to characters i just meet or for RP reasons.

[Nalzaxx]

I used to get the same thing with Nalzaxx, him having at the best of times an unpleasant and outstanding figure. Personally though I leave the large discriptive me's to special encounters, such as when some random elf needs intimidating, or I want to stir up some religious zealot. Even then I tend to do the long me's in several short ones.

For general use though, I must be honest, it is a hasle that hardly anyone pays attention to, so I just don't bother.

[Nop]

With the Java client, you will get 10 different texts assigned to keys.

If that still isn't enough, it also has the ability to paste text from the clipboard.

That's your whole HD. I guess that should suffice.

[Dyluck]

#me is a man/woman/elf/w.e. and appears to be [in his mid twenties/late 40ies/of untellable age yet his features are stern and cold]. He wears [regular clothes/expensive wardrobe/a breastplate with a strange symbol on it]. His eyes are [grey blue and stinging cold/ of a warm brown and seem friendly and honest, just as the rest of his features/ red and wicked, one would start to shiver when being stared at with].

I hate this. I hate it even more when this is expected of a player. More and more I find that players are unwilling to wait for a subtle description, and badger you for a giant, ugly, lump summation of your character.

Honestly, I could care less if you're seven feet tall with vicious grey eyes. I don't care if I'm just buying a bundle of grain from you. Save it for when there's some significance, like when we're about to fight, or you're intimidating me.

I much prefer gradual hints throughout a conversation, something with tact. Things like; Jill Smith figets with her threadbare sleeve, Joe Everyman scratches his ragged beard, Blat Antnecromancer purses his fetid lips. I don't want to have someone spew their entire character description on me, then expect me to do the same when we may just have a passing encounter.

If I see that sort of 'one shot' description in a book, I know I'm in for a rough ride. Considering the story-telling nature of roleplaying, I don't like to see word lumps here either.

Agreed, somewhat. And as a sidenote, althought I haven't played in ages, I've been under the impression that the general trend was #me's being overused rather than underused. I guess there are two extremes, where on one hand some players have been conditioned to believe that the #me is the heart, soul, meat, and driving force of roleplay, while on the other hand some newbies just plain don't care or use them at all.

[Cliu Beothach]

Thanks for completely misunderstanding my point Hadrian,
I don't think stuff like #me opens the chest, then closes it and
walks outside. #me picks an apple and eats it. are signs of roleplay.

And just understanding how to elaborate is roleplay?

This game isn't competition or who is "better" at description. It is about roleplay and minimalism is an art as well.

[Gro'bul]

Unless someone gets my attention, most of the time I can't even tell you what I'm wearing unless I look at myself in real life. To be honest, its just annoying unless someone "#me looks the man over carefully" then I'm happy to ablige and type a long complicated indulgent description of my char and everything he's wearing down to what condition each item is in. Otherwise, I don't care!

[Sidney Varguea]

Personally I dislike the situations with 5 human people in-game and basically the only thing that seperates them from each other is their name they will gladly tell you, even if you have not asked for it, regardless what type of character you play.

Believe me: you are not alone.

I noticed that a big part (not all) of players seem to forget about all the possibilities the #me has to offer and I'm fed up with being the only one adding texture to the game, typing lines and lines of character description and descriptions of gesture and mimics in talks with receiving none or next to no response.

The majority of players nowadays are a bunch of "#me smiles" and "#me nods" and that's all. Some doesn't even rp throwing things or handing them, they simply click and drag an item into the ground; obviously, the person with which he is roleplaying knows what action he did, but in illarion you're never playing alove with your friend, there is a whole world playing together and people always, always tend to forget this matter.
I am not a hardcore rper, but I'm a great fan of well elaborated "#me"s and I try to picture my character through them the best way. Now, if this is a roleplaying enforeced game, why others don't? My theory is that they don't even know how to do that, how to make their characters solid and visible; and I've noticed that this illness is usually acompanied by a constant-change-of-char-personality-disorder and powergaming-syndrome. You see: where there is a lack of charm to make a character interesting to a world, it seems to be replaced by good skills to show some guild friends that think alike.
Sometimes you can see more of the POs in game than the characters.

Just my humble thoughts.

[Dyluck]

I noticed that a big part (not all) of players seem to forget about all the possibilities the #me has to offer and I'm fed up with being the only one adding texture to the game, typing lines and lines of character description and descriptions of gesture and mimics in talks with receiving none or next to no response.

The majority of players nowadays are a bunch of "#me smiles" and "#me nods" and that's all. Some doesn't even rp throwing things or handing them, they simply click and drag an item into the ground; obviously, the person with which he is roleplaying knows what action he did, but in illarion you're never playing alove with your friend, there is a whole world playing together and people always, always tend to forget this matter.
I am not a hardcore rper, but I'm a great fan of well elaborated "#me"s and I try to picture my character through them the best way. Now, if this is a roleplaying enforeced game, why others don't? My theory is that they don't even know how to do that, how to make their characters solid and visible; and I've noticed that this illness is usually acompanied by a constant-change-of-char-personality-disorder and powergaming-syndrome. You see: where there is a lack of charm to make a character interesting to a world, it seems to be replaced by good skills to show some guild friends that think alike.
Sometimes you can see more of the POs in game than the characters.

Just my humble thoughts.

I understand where you're coming from, but I have to disagree. To answer your question about this being a roleplaying game, I'd have to say that it's because roleplaying means "acting and thinking like a character", not "elaborating descriptions and all actions". If you ask me, the excessive descriptions trend is partly just a byproduct of pen/paper rpg culture where almost nothing is provided by game technics so you'd have to describe everything. But this is now a graphical rpg, and I'm not a big fan of using #me in most mundane situations where something is already understood or provided for by game technics, such as handing items or fighting. I'd rather focus on the "big picture", trying to set up plotlines or situations of interest. There are some situations or activities in Illarion that simply ARE mudane, like trading and smithing, and using too many elaborate descriptions in order to make them a SMIDGE more interesting is a waste of effort to me. Conversations usually work better in these instances, and #me smiles and #me nods progress the interaction more here.

I think of it this way. On one hand you can elabroate on super detailed and infinitely complex descriptions of an equally infinitely boring action such as making bread. Alright, so I see you know all a lot about bread making and I applaud your efforts, but bread making is still boring.

On the other hand, you can have an adventure where the plot intrigues and is allowed to progress at ample speed even though #me descriptions and few and not too detailed. Well I'd rather take the latter. To me, the "big picture" puts more depth into Illarion than any #me description ever will.

This again ties in with how I say Illarion fails to draw peoples' interests, despite supposed "better roleplaying" over time as a general trend, because there is too much focus on minor details of individual interactions which will never translate into a lasting impression of interest to those outside of its participants' circle. It seems there is little to no focus on the bigger picture, or a portrayal of ingame happenings into something tangible that would appeal to the outside world, although it is somewhat of a tricky thing to accomplish that anyways.

Also, the enduring belief that good roleplaying entails using #me on everything is one of the things I don't want to deal with, and one of the reasons I likely won't come back to the game. Not that I blame anyone for that aspect, but I just think somewhere along the way people confused roleplaying and using #me's as being almost synonomous and the idea got developed and conditioned into the culture and minds of Illarion's players, and GMs too.

But of course, I don't know the actual situation, so maybe the #me is a lot more underused than I have estimated, at least in the case of newer players.

[Sidney Varguea]

So, Dyluck, what you're saying to me is that it doesn't matter if someone places a sword four squares away near another char without a #me? Cool. How can I guess if he threw the sword AT the char or if he threw the sword TO the char?
It makes a lot of difference on a simple scene as this.
And you should think while using the word "excessive", because when you do, you're speaking your mind. What may be excessive to you, may not be to me.
And, yes, this is a graphical roleplaying game, I got my chance to notice that. I know you don't play anymore, however, I'd like to ask you to do a simple task:
1. create a new account;
2. create a char;
3. log in with this char;
4. make him graphically draw a sword from his back and practice some moves in the air.
If you can do all these steps, then two things may have happened: the first, we are not playing the same game; the second, the new java client may have arrived and is surely something neat.
Yes, this is a graphical rpg. But not everything is shown on the graphics, actually, almost all the interaction happens in #mes and dialogues when you're not doing anything that requires skills. To play this game without #mes is impossible. To play this game with few #mes is as boring as "making bread".
You can't separate things like this. If you prefer fast adventures with quick #mes... fine. It can happen. But try to imagine the whole game this way: impossible; everyone would look the same, everyone would act similar. However, it is possible to imagine the game with great and better #me's description than the actual ones; to me, it would enrich many aspects of many people roleplaying, not to mention it would be better to visualize the characters as if they weren't all of the same graphic tiles. People are different, they act different. If you aren't able to notice this simple fact, then you can't possibly be able to roleplay someone different than yourself, different than other character. The insterest part of the game interaction is in the differences.
And, well, I just want to call your attention to the fact of how it is easy to turn a light on or off. To my preference, elaborated #mes, you gave the boring example of making bread. Lights off. To your preference, quick #mes, you gave the example of an adventure where the plot intrigues. Lights on.
What were you trying to do here? Prove your point or convice others of it?
If you really think that the #mes and the roleplaying OF Illarion aren't almost synonomous, then, please, do tell me what is it and what it's for?
They are almost synonomous. The roleplaying is made of #mes and dialogues, there is no escape from that. If you don't describe your actions in #mes and if you don't speak IG, then you're playing Tibia.

And I am still wondering since when roleplaying in pen & paper rpg and graphical rpgs got separated. It would be the same as saying that the "roleplaying" in the theater is different from the movies. In both cases of roleplaying, pen & paper / graphical, theater / movies, the idea of roleplaying is the same: you pick the role of a character and you speak like him, act like him; you become him.

But of course, I don't know the actual situation, so maybe the #me is a lot more underused than I have estimated

This was probably the only usefull thing you wrote in your whole text, mate. Even then, only part of it.

[Dyluck]

So, Dyluck, what you're saying to me is that it doesn't matter if someone places a sword four squares away near another char without a #me? Cool. How can I guess if he threw the sword AT the char or if he threw the sword TO the char?
It makes a lot of difference on a simple scene as this.
And you should think while using the word "excessive", because when you do, you're speaking your mind. What may be excessive to you, may not be to me.
And, yes, this is a graphical roleplaying game, I got my chance to notice that. I know you don't play anymore, however, I'd like to ask you to do a simple task:
1. create a new account;
2. create a char;
3. log in with this char;
4. make him graphically draw a sword from his back and practice some moves in the air.
If you can do all these steps, then two things may have happened: the first, we are not playing the same game; the second, the new java client may have arrived and is surely something neat.
Yes, this is a graphical rpg. But not everything is shown on the graphics, actually, almost all the interaction happens in #mes and dialogues when you're not doing anything that requires skills. To play this game without #mes is impossible. To play this game with few #mes is as boring as "making bread".
You can't separate things like this. If you prefer fast adventures with quick #mes... fine. It can happen. But try to imagine the whole game this way: impossible; everyone would look the same, everyone would act similar. However, it is possible to imagine the game with great and better #me's description than the actual ones; to me, it would enrich many aspects of many people roleplaying, not to mention it would be better to visualize the characters as if they weren't all of the same graphic tiles. People are different, they act different. If you aren't able to notice this simple fact, then you can't possibly be able to roleplay someone different than yourself, different than other character. The insterest part of the game interaction is in the differences.
And, well, I just want to call your attention to the fact of how it is easy to turn a light on or off. To my preference, elaborated #mes, you gave the boring example of making bread. Lights off. To your preference, quick #mes, you gave the example of an adventure where the plot intrigues. Lights on.
What were you trying to do here? Prove your point or convice others of it?
If you really think that the #mes and the roleplaying OF Illarion aren't almost synonomous, then, please, do tell me what is it and what it's for?
They are almost synonomous. The roleplaying is made of #mes and dialogues, there is no escape from that. If you don't describe your actions in #mes and if you don't speak IG, then you're playing Tibia.

And I am still wondering since when roleplaying in pen & paper rpg and graphical rpgs got separated. It would be the same as saying that the "roleplaying" in the theater is different from the movies. In both cases of roleplaying, pen & paper / graphical, theater / movies, the idea of roleplaying is the same: you pick the role of a character and you speak like him, act like him; you become him.

But of course, I don't know the actual situation, so maybe the #me is a lot more underused than I have estimated

This was probably the only usefull thing you wrote in your whole text, mate. Even then, only part of it.

What's with the hostility? Did you detect any in my post? I thought you said your thoughts were supposedly "humble".

And you should think while using the word "excessive", because when you do, you're speaking your mind. What may be excessive to you, may not be to me.

What were you trying to do here? Prove your point or convice others of it?

Yes I'm speaking my mind and my opinon. Aren't you? I was under the impression that this was supposed to be an exchange of opinions. I don't know what your problem is, but I guess some people just take quoting them and forming opinions against their own as a sign of hostility?


In any case, to your question (and I guess I should somehow stress that this is just my opinion and not my way of kicking yours in the shin?) about the 4 square sword toss, my answer is Context. Also using my understanding of the game, I would assume "pass" by default, and expect a #me hurls etc for an attack, but that's just me for that particular situation. There are of course many situations where #me works more importantly as a clarifier, if that is your point.

To your request of the sword drawing and practicing moves task, I regretfully cannot comply, as it is neither graphically nor fully technically supported. In this case, I agree using a #me function is fully appropriate and I have not denied that in my argument. I did however mention fighting, which is supported by the client, and was just a general comment I didn't really get into. There are of course specific situations where #me is quite useful and descriptive.

I think you misunderstand what I view as an excessive degree of #me use. I was infact one of the most ardent users of the #me functions during my time, where I would use them quite descriptively if the situation called for it. What I did say was considered excessive however, was the overuse of #me during mundane tasks and/or the AMOUNT of elaboration used in a given #me. This again is just a general statement, and I highly doubt we will ever be able to accurately express to each other what conditions and the amount of elaboration we each deem appropriate for #me. We won't solve anything by throwing specific examples at each other to try and prove each other wrong.

Why do I consider #me and roleplaying as not synonymous? Well let's take the example of the theatre and say the best actor in the world was going to do a 2 hour scene where they just bake bread. Not very interesting is it? Acting is a key aspect of the movie, but then so is the directing, the storyline, the lighting, the music which all each compliment each other to make an interesting movie. I guess you can say #me is the same as roleplaying, but then I'd have to say the game isn't really all just about the idea commonly referred to here as "roleplaying" then. It's just one aspect of presentation that needs to be balanced with other aspects to make the overall product appealing. It may be an important aspect, but it's not the only aspect, and you can't depend on it to be the single driving force of your product. Take the idea of "overacting", and we all know what that means in acting. I find it to be quite parallel in roleplaying in Illarion, in that if a player tries to do too much with a #me, it makes him seem a bit over dramatic or over eager to draw attention, which can also break character too and can give an adverse perception of him.

Edit: Why did I compare pen/paper to graphical rpg? Well, if the client fully supported a unique graphical represntation for every aspect of your character's appearance, would you still constantly #me a description of your appearance that can already be plainly seen? Well the point of my comparison was just to illustrate that describing actions were much more necessary in pen/paper because no task no matter how big or small was represented in any other way at all, whereas as graphical support has made a lot of actions (especially mundane ones) much more apparent in comparison, althought not completely which is another issue of degree. What I was just saying was that I felt some habits in Illarion were simply descended from pen/paper rpg, rather than being looked at for their intrinsic value to the current graphical rpg. /Edit

Well for the sake of my health, I guess I better disclaim to you once again that this is just my opinion, abeit specifically opposed to your own, is still just an exchange of opinions and ideas. I would have thought that this would be understood by default in any discussion here, but I guess I should have used a"#me forms my own opinion and perceptions" first to clarify eh? (Just a lame joke, no throwing bottles ok?)

[Sidney Varguea]

My problem is, and I'll tell you, the players that doesn't play anymore, that haven't played for years, and that have no idea of what's happening IG and still insist on giving old fashioned opinions based on a time that will never come back.
But I guess you can, yet. Your point of views are good and you know how to write a decent post, different from many, what may be a pity that you're not IG anymore as I hear many saying. But your point of view, Dyluck, has no base since you don't know what's going on lately.

#me isn't a clarifier, if that is your point. #me is one of the original tools that separate this game from the rest. As you said, you would assume "pass" by default. The fact here is that you don't have to assume when the right #me was placed in the right time and position. You can't, as an old player from the time the roleplaying was enchanting, tell me the #me function is a mere clarifier. I'll quote the last experience I had IG here and maybe you'll understand what I'm saying:

(this is from a conversation in the tavern between two characters when mine entered, after overhearing a it from outside)

Sidney Varguea is a bonewhite skinny man, he wears colorfully decorated light clothes, almost extravagant, his light hazel eyes hold a bored gaze, his blond hair is shaved short - several belts around his waist and a moon shaped earring on his left ear balancing.
Someone (531715934): Perhaps I'll think on it, and maybe come up with some better ideas..
Sidney Varguea pulls the chair and takes a seat calmly.
Derek Corydon: a representative would be good, but they would have to be of like mind with me, very loyal, and someone who i have absolute trust
Derek Corydon converses with the man beside him, and takes no notice of anyhthing else.
! Idea-man: I think you're taking that a bit unrealistically. You want people to speak on your behalf, not to run the city.
Derek Corydon: but they'd have to speak my mind
! Idea-man: They would, but they'll speak their mind anyway.
Derek Corydon: that's why i say they have to be like minded with me
Sidney Varguea takes a small wooden box from his bag and places it on his lap.
! Idea-man: The total trust, however? Why is that neccesary?
Derek Corydon: as such it would require that they be someone i could influece often
Derek Corydon: if you allow someone to represent you, and how people view you, you need to trust them
Derek Corydon: trust is needed for any two people to work smoothely together
Sidney Varguea takes a piece of paper from a side pocket of his leather bag, the paper was cut similar to a rectangular.
Derek Corydon: trust and loyalty are the basics to any good working relationship
! Idea-man: I'm not strictly talking of someone who would, essentially, be your embodiment, but just some group who could go out and speak favourably of you.
Derek Corydon: hmm, i see what you mean
! Idea-man: As you have very few resources, the only thing you can do is give people who already support you a little nudge, tell them to be more vocal.
Sidney Varguea folds the paper in the middle and opens the wooden box.
Derek Corydon: i hope those who support me feel that they can already do that
! Idea-man: They may not, however, be focused on the other citizens.
Sidney Varguea takes small dark green herb pieces from within the box and places them carefully on the middle of the paper.
! Idea-man glances briefly over his shoulder, and grins before returning his eyes to Derek.
Derek Corydon: and i'll have to get on making actions that warrent praise
! Idea-man: As it goes, people tend to ignore those they don't already know.
Sidney Varguea stops a moment and raises his head to the wall, as if he could, somehow, feel watched, then looks down at the paper again and continues.
! Idea-man: They're not going to mention why you should support Derek Corydon in ordinary conversation.
! Idea-man: Tell them to do so, and they may start spreading the word.
Derek Corydon: i feel like the oposite comes up more often
Sidney Varguea fills the paper middle with the herb pieces and starts to roll a cigarette.
! Idea-man: I suppose you can't really gain any real supporters from the town guard...
Derek Corydon: i'm afraid those are our real supporters, and unfortunately for me, i have yet to meet most of the new recruits
! Idea-man: It seems to me as if their loyalty lies with Bailey.
! Idea-man leans back in the corner of his chair, lifting three of the legs from the floor.
! Idea-man carefully turns the chair to face the man by the fireplace.
Derek Corydon: firstly, i'd say yes, but they should naturaly be to me also
! Idea-man: You there, sir! What would encourage you to become an official citizen of Trollsbane? Paper and all?
Derek Corydon: i'm glad you had to the time to come a chat with me
Derek Corydon: but i must be going now
! Idea-man: I see. I hope I'll run into you again, Derek.
Sidney Varguea rolls the cigarette and calmly closes the wooden box before turning his head towards the men.
Derek Corydon: i hope so too, look for your name on the wall soon
Derek Corydon: farewell Orren
Sidney Varguea: Citizen?
Sidney Varguea smirks before returning to what he was doing.
! Idea-man: Citizen, used in the formal term.
Sidney Varguea: You've got a strange way to it, Orren. Your ideas are rather funny. Funny ideas.
Sidney Varguea stands swiftly and walks to the chimney.
! Idea-man: Right then...
Sidney Varguea: Care for a smoke?
! Idea-man settles an arm on the bar.
! Idea-man: After I'm done using my jaws.
Sidney Varguea lowers his body and lights the cigarette on the fire - automatically the tavern fills with a charactestic smell of sibanac.
Sidney Varguea: Up to you, I guess.
Sidney Varguea stands.
! Idea-man: Although, it would seem to me you have a lack of intrest in responding to my question.
Sidney Varguea turns to face the man, the moon shaped earring balancing as he does "And it seems to "me", that you have a lot of interested in my answer.".
! Idea-man: Why yes, you're exactly right. I do have alot of interest in your answer.
Sidney Varguea 's voice tone is ironicly, sarcasticly all the time, although he sounds somewhat noble.
Sidney Varguea: Such is the way of the world... it makes me wonder.
Sidney Varguea interrupts himself to stare at the chair.
Sidney Varguea: May I?
! Idea-man: Oh, you may.
! Idea-man turns his chair back to face forward.
Sidney Varguea nods a few times and smokes his cigarette while he sits down.
Sidney Varguea: Hm. It makes me wonder, Orren of the Funny Ideas...
! Idea-man: 'It' being?
Sidney Varguea: That interest of yours.
Sidney Varguea smokes again, breathes the smoke up, the smell of sibanac now very near.
! Idea-man: I felt the reason for it is perfectly plain. I'm interested in convincing people to join the town. Formally.
Sidney Varguea looks at him, directly, his light hazel eyes holding a strange spark "Why?".
! Idea-man leans forward, resting his chin on a fist, and the elbow on the bar.
! Idea-man: Fundamentally, because I'm interested in becoming active in it, and with more citizens, the town would have far more access to resources.
! Idea-man: I like being a member of things with resources. Though, I suppose it could be a personal thing.
Sidney Varguea grins and smokes again, this time, after, he offers the cigarette to the man.
! Idea-man takes the cigarette, pondering it a moment, holding it between his index finger and thumb.
Sidney Varguea nods slightly and turns to the counter again "Go ahead, nice stuff.".
! Orren Funny-ideas inhales briefly, passing the cigarette back to the man.
! Orren Funny-ideas purses his lips, and exhales slowly.
Sidney Varguea takes it and looks at it a while, thoughtfully.
Sidney Varguea: Resources. Sibanac doesn't grow in this lands.
! Orren Funny-ideas: I'm gaining the impression there are things you'd prefer to speak about.
Sidney Varguea: Precisely.
! Orren Funny-ideas runs a finger slowly along his lips.
Sidney Varguea smokes and hits some ashes over the counter.
! Orren Funny-ideas: Well, go on, lead me down the trail.
Sidney Varguea: Very well.
Sidney Varguea looks down at the ashes momentarily, his bored gaze never changing.
! Orren Funny-ideas returns his finger to the table, tracing the edge of the wood grain.
Sidney Varguea: I couldn't avoid hearing your conversation with the overseer from outside before I showed myself. Sorry.
Sidney Varguea: It caught my attention.
! Orren Funny-ideas: If I don't want something heard, I don't say it so it can be.
Sidney Varguea: I mean, one thing did.
Sidney Varguea smokes again, rather quickly this time, as if he had forgotten about the cigarette in his hand.
! Orren Funny-ideas: Please don't tell me it was the fully unreasonable idea that I did not wish to propose, or be taken seriously.
Sidney Varguea: Heh.
! Orren Funny-ideas: I trust you know which one that was.
Sidney Varguea: No, no. It wasn't. Although that was the idea of another, before.
Sidney Varguea breathes the smoke out, finnaly.
Sidney Varguea: What caught my attention, Orren of the Funny Ideas...
! Orren Funny-ideas moves his hand in a lazy circle.
Sidney Varguea: ...was that you seemed to want to be the trusted person the overseer seems to be looking for in order to perform your own idea.
Sidney Varguea hits the ashes over the counter again, completelly carelessly to the bartender possible stare.
! Orren Funny-ideas: Be the advisor? Why wouldn't I fancy that sort of position? I don't expect it, but I would certainly have an interest.
Sidney Varguea: Indeed.
! Orren Funny-ideas: I, by far, also prefer my ideas to those of others. Unless, of course, I adopt those of others.
Sidney Varguea offers the cigarette again.
! Orren Funny-ideas: However, I think you need to elaborate further. Why call out my obvious motivation?
! Orren Funny-ideas raises a hand, "I'll pass on a second.".
Sidney Varguea nods and retreats it.
Sidney Varguea: We all have interests.
! Orren Funny-ideas: We do... Go on.
Sidney Varguea: But to speak openly of true intention, motivations, or whatever you call it... well... hmm, I'd like to know how active you'd see yourself as the number of citizens increase.
Sidney Varguea: What is your activity, to say so.
! Orren Funny-ideas: I don't believe I quite follow your question, but I'd like to have a receptive ear for my ideas.
Sidney Varguea smokes the cigarette a last time, almost burning his long thin bonewhite fingers and then he presses it against the counter "Oh, too bad, the smoke is over".
Sidney Varguea takes a deep breath and exhales soundly.


And unfortunatelly we couldn't go on due to a server crash. But you see, by this example, that what I meant with elaborated #mes wasn't enormous #mes, I just meant something different from the usual "#me smiles", "#me nods" - these two might serve the purpose a time or another, but for me, a nod is never only a nod, a smile is never only a smile, people are different. Perhaps, we could say that more descriptive #mes is what we need IG in the nowadays.

Fighting. I tend to use #mes during fights as well. The ones watchin it can't see the weapon, armor, moves you are using without any #me at all. By the actions during the battle, they can even see who they'll defend or help. People sometimes doesn't even move around while fighting. I don't mean the commonly known spar trainning sessions. But the real fights, the ones in which who is the winner will change the history, those ones, in my opinions, can always be an epic duel with the right #mes and moviments. I doubt two warriors armored to the teeth would just stand in front of each other attacking with swords until one fall down.

What about it? Rolling a cigarete is a mundane act, lighting it so as well. Do you think my char should have just taken the rolled cigarette from the bag and light it? Like #me takes a rolled cigarette and lights it"? No. The whole action IS who my character is. This is what defines the boundaries between a char and another: the way they act; you can't simply ignore this fact. Even the example of the making bread char... Try to imagine a halfling making her bread. Now try to imagine after she #med it with the passion she has for the deed, the persistant look in her eyes while doing her job. For me, it changes everything. Besides, I agree making bread is boring, that is why someone would really need to like it while choosing it as a profession: to me, this is reason enough for one or two elaborated #mes while doing so.

The best actor in the world would know how to make it interesting. If he tried and wanted to, that is. And I must disagree, the game is about the acting: your #mes and dialogues, while the #me been all your character actions: working, walking, staring, making bread. And who's depending on it to be the single driving force of the product? The problem is this. When everyone is afraid of doing more elaborated #mes because his char could look like an attention-whore or seem too dramatic more topics like this will pop up on the forum. However, I have to say that none of the reasons above seem to be the actual problem IG. The problem about people's rp is a total lack of will to make their chars interesting. Laziness. And also, I must add that not all characters are this way, we have wonderfull rp partners ig nowdays. It would just be more appealing if everyone ig were wonderfull rp partners. But I guess this is impossible.

Well, no. But the facing real facts is knowing them and right now the client DOESN'T. We don't have a choice. Ah, I found here a good oportunity to show my view. The client doesn't.

Someone (A): Greetings.
Someone (B): hi
Someone (A) is a tall man around his thirties, wearing full plate armor and carrying a two handed sword on his back; around his neck is a necklace with the sigil of the Town Guard, his whole posture is of a serious man, perhaps because of the responsability of his job - his eyes are of dark brown color and his short hair is black. He extends a gloved hand to greet the man.
Someone (B): are you a guard?

The sad part is that this kin of thing happens IG all the time. I had to illustrate it, because since you don't play anymore, now you have a better view of what's happening. It's all a matter of presentation. The Someone (B) could have described himself, the Someone (B) could have replied to the extended hand with a simple "#me shakes his hand". But he didn't. And why? Well, I, too, would like to know. Such things happens all the time in the current state of the game. Now, is a hand shaking too mundane for you? What you forgot is that, until now, all we have IG as graphical interface is a walking character. So, to you whatever can't be seen on the screen has to be described? Following your words, since I can't roleplay graphically the action of making bread so everyone could see it, then it's not that mundane to #me it.

Right. I'm doing nothing but stating my opinions and ideas as well. You're not expecting that I state them like you, right? Real philosophers doesn't search for an answer, they search for more questions.
And, no, forget about the "#me forms my own opinion and perceptions". I guess it would be too mundane for you, mate.

[Faladron]

Nothing more to add to that, Mr. Varguea.

Those "Are you a guard?" moments can realy spoil the fun for you.

Roleplay is something like improvisional virtual theatre.

There's no script, no fixed boundaries (well some, but they're rather unimportant for all the ways your character could work out) and so there's no "big picture" one could follow with his character at all times.

We don't have to save the world every day or plot a plan to ambush a politician, we don't have to do big things every day to contribute to this "big picture" of a character you've mentioned Dyluck. We can play regular characters with regular stories aswell if we want to.

We're playing for the fun of it!

My character Faladron is a craftsman. He's working with wood and I have (and still do to some extend) described how he's carving something with a lot of details. I'm the guy #me - ing his bread bake actions, you refered to and I like it, and others like it aswell because it adds something to the game. People seeing me work know that he's a dedicated craftsman and that creates some atmosphere in game imho.

But why I refered to theatre is this:

One big tip for good improvisional theatre is:

"Get yourself into trouble, and help your partner get out of his trouble"

That will create stories, conflicts, people helping each other and it can be used 1:1 on roleplay in Illarion.

What fun is it if you see someone go into the shop like:

#me steps inside, scanning the room.
#me walks over to the chest and opens it.
#me takes some bottles out and closes it again.
#me turns and walks outside again.

There's no point where someone else could join in there, or atleast it's very hard.. however if he would get himself into trouble a little like:

#me steps inside, scanning the room.
#me walks over to the chest and opens it.
#me takes some bottles out of it but doesn't have a good grip on them, he tries hard but some of them fall to the ground breaking and their content spilling over the floor.
#me frowns and looks at the mess placing one hand on his side and shakes his head.

Now if you'd see that scene you could:

-) Go over and help cleaning it up, start a chat and get to know the char better. That'd be a reasonable way to get to know someone instead of the "Hey I'm XYZ, who are you?" people.

-) Laugh at his clumsiness. He might get angry at you and start a quarrel (a pretty good rp situation aswell and fun).

-) Your own choice here, as long as you react on it somehow!

To ere is human (orcish/elfish/lizardish/dwarvish/halflingish) and it's a good way to start some small roleplay by yourself.
Drop something every once in a while, mess up your cloak or set something on fire.. the posibilities are endless and aslong as you leave room for others to join in you'll find people roleplaying with you in no time.

This will also help to make your character more credible for other players.
Don't overdo but show that he's just a human/elf/dwarf/lizard/ w/e and not a perfectly planned entitity with no errors whatsover every once in a while.

[Misjbar]

Oh, and another small side-note. I absolutely dislike the chars that demand to know your charname, just because they gave you theirs. It is like, is everyone SUPPOSED to know eachother or something? Or do you always give out your name to random people IRL?

That bugs me greatly. Why would you even want to know the name of a random person you meet?

[Llama]

It depends on the characters however.

For example, my Lizard char sees lizards as a minority, and wants to know who all of them are.

The other chars just ask for a name when they've sold 999 items and want to get more sales next time.
-

So its more of how outgoing that char is...

[Zach Bora]

Oh, and another small side-note. I absolutely dislike the chars that demand to know your charname, just because they gave you theirs. It is like, is everyone SUPPOSED to know eachother or something? Or do you always give out your name to random people IRL?

That bugs me greatly. Why would you even want to know the name of a random person you meet?

Every once and then, I hear people calling others or doing emotes about other people and I !name them. I personnaly only ask the name of people I am doing stuff with, I don't randomly go to people I don't know and ask their name. There has to be a reason.

[Misjbar]

Doing emotes with someone? You mean #me looks at XYZ ? Because that would be quite wrong (using OOC-info only the player can see and all).