Illarion.org

Discussion: Racial Languages INGAME

Statement 1: Realism; if a person knows 2 languages (example English and German); he will feel most comfortable speaking the natural (German) if he has been taught that way. He will only speak English when confronted by english-only speakers. That way, IN GAME; a person should always speak his natural (racial) tongue, except when he needs to be understood by others.

Statement 2: Impractical, as there aren't enough of one kind INGAME in order to allow a standard of talking always the racial language; moreover, the common tongue is so called because it is to be the tounge mostly spoke. It will also keep other players away from the action if elves ALWAYS speak to each other in elvish, and no-one can understand.

Which do you agree most upon? Give your opinions below.

In Silverbrand the dwarfs speak dwarvish all the time. It's realism to a point but some fluent speaks of another language say they even think in that language as it's more clear to them.

Could someone move this to general.

And on a second note, I have no idea what you want to accomplish with this.

I was toying around with the idea of posting it in general, however most discussions turn into a flame war; so I'd save the mod some problems

What I want to accomplish is merely a discussion, to see your views on it; I was thinking about Statement 1 on my way home....

Well, I live by statement 1. Misjilah always speaks elven, or atleast ancient. Common she only uses when she really needs too.

Hadrian_Abela wrote: It will also keep other players away from the action if elves ALWAYS speak to each other in elvish, and no-one can understand.

Actually, the elves are a horrible example as for the last week to two weeks everyone and their brother seems to be learning elvish. And I personally never use elvish as a way to hide my meaning anymore, because I know it is pointless as three other people in the shop will know what I am saying.

For characters like Misjilah, they prefer to use their native tongue, and no one should be blamed for that.

I agree that it sucks to have a flurry of another language going on in front of you and maybe you think you've missed out on some of this "action", but most of the time it is just a conversation that doesn't need 10 pairs of ears listening to it.

Edit: As for which I agree with most of those two statement... neither. In terms of realism, I know from experience that I will speak French with those who know it, just for the fun of it. I like new languages. That simple. More comfortable with english, yes, but that doesn't mean I would not speak french 90% of my time, if I were surrounded by people who understood and would converse with me.
As for impractical of us all using our racial languages in game... that makes sense, but I feel your reasoning is off. If Avareniah speaks elvish, it isn't to cut someone out of "action", it is to speak with an elf. In fact, she has spoken maybe 5 words to Misjilah in the common tongue, all other conversation conducted in elvish, for that is the respect she gives her. The rest of the time she speaks common and it is hard to get her to speak elvish, because she thinks it is rude in a room full of humans or dwarves.

Actually, the elves are a horrible example as for the last week to two weeks everyone and their brother seems to be learning elvish.

Yeah, I dislike this too. A lot even.

Meh I leanred Elvish and it doesn't do any damn thing, I can't speak it and I can't listen to what elves say... the guy is supposed to teach the basics but I can't even say Hello ><

than your char is just too stiupid to learn it. why do you try to learn the elven language with a stupid char?

Ghorn wrote:than your char is just too stiupid to learn it. why do you try to learn the elven language with a stupid char?

wth are you talking about, he's not stupid he has 12 int, that's above average

elvish is a tad... hard

and please keep on topic

But i think elvish is a difficult language (im compairing with the human language, for example) and it needs a high intelligenc to learn it, and to use it.

Edit: To come back to topic, i would like to say, that the most people are maybe just to lazy to switch the language, every time, they want to speak with someone else. But of couse it would be more realistic if the characters would speak in there own language. And i think, there are enougth of each race, to use the race languages.

int 12 is still average. int 13 would be abouth average.

even with the most intelligent human char you are not able to learn the elven language at a skill where you can understand elvish without problems.

Ghorn wrote:int 12 is still average. int 13 would be abouth average.

even with the most intelligent human char you are not able to learn the elven language at a skill where you can understand elvish without problems.

still not a reason to call my char stupid


Edit:
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... php?t=9047
says slighly above average

MESSAGE TO MISJ: Like i said, only this time it didnt' turn into a flamewar... the offtopic is best for this.

Misjbar wrote:

Actually, the elves are a horrible example as for the last week to two weeks everyone and their brother seems to be learning elvish.

Yeah, I dislike this too. A lot even.

It pissed me right the smile off. I have no comment on the original post and it's meaning or anything like that but hell, I had some human guy up in Varshikar talk to me in elvish (really poorly I might add) just because I was an elf. It pissed me off and I didn't want to RP with him. I'm not an effing practice dummy.

An unnamed teacher of the magic academy was helping several persons to learn elvish. This is not poor rp at all, in fact the only real rp'd way to do it is to learn it from an elf.

I have two elf characters willing to work with others to improve their elvish, if they are asked properly. My elves are of the opinion that if a friend wishes to learn their language, they will assist if they are asked correctly. It is an ability implemented in game, and for the "reality" aspect, any person can learn another language.

However, as Quinasa says, where it gets to be annoying is when non-elves approach elven characters and begin to speak horribly in elf. If you want help, ask in common, explain why you choose to learn, and maybe then the elf will want to go through the effort to talk to you.
If you were to just walk up and start speaking so that it is hard to understand, it is likely you will be ignored or frowned upon.
If you would not RP with me, except for the fact that I am an elf and may therefore turn into your "practice dummy", then it is likely my elves will see this and be unimpressed, as was Quin. And I believe, as she had every right to be.

Moved to general. This kind of topic is what is needed here more often.

Regarding the "Inteligence Points":

First I would like to make clear, that its long ago since I have written this summary.
Thats why it might be outdated or even utterly wrong at specific parts.
I also have currently now knowledge about the game mechanics regarding the language and learning a language.

12 is indeed "slightly above" averange, but you should still consider your character not overerly clever in this point.
You are just a tad smarter then Averange-Joe next to you and will most likely never encounter big problems concerning your own language when it comes to writing and reading.
Learning a complete new and complex language, like elvish, or a crude and partialy unlogic, like orcish, might still be out of reach for your character.
At least to reach a point where you don't make a fool of yourself (your character) when trying to pronounce:
"Where is the toilet, please?"

Actually...Arent all characters equally good with their own language and common language? If they are equally good at them, why would they mostly speak their own language? It much more reasonable to speak mainly the commong language as you are grandmaster in it and everyone understands it unlike the other ones.

Sancho wrote:Actually...Arent all characters equally good with their own language and common language? If they are equally good at them, why would they mostly speak their own language? It much more reasonable to speak mainly the commong language as you are grandmaster in it and everyone understands it unlike the other ones.

Well, I can speak english and dutch both well enough. (when actually writing them, I am equally good in both). However, I do still prefer dutch. Compare it to that.

I don't speak english at work, although I know that my colleague speak it fluently.

So, although our characters are equaly good in both language skills its just natural to speak thier mother language instead of a forgein.

Edit:
Seems Misjbar said the same in less time.

The difference is, if RL when you want to revert to your mother tongue and then switch back and forth between the languages you simply have to say different words.

In Illarion you have to !l xxxxxx each and everytime you wish to switch between languages, therefore its just easier to stick to common.

Perhaps if the new client has hotkeys for switching language?

It doesn't. However, typing !l elf <enter>, and then someone else comes and you have to type !l common <enter> is quite quick. Maybe get to learn your keyboard a little.

...

Quick yes, but a pain in the ass nevertheless.

Ghorn wrote:int 12 is still average. int 13 would be abouth average.

even with the most intelligent human char you are not able to learn the elven language at a skill where you can understand elvish without problems.

If 12 as two points over the middle point is slightly average then 13 which is one point over that isn't that much brighter if you think about it.

but yes i agree with the fact that elven language got way out of hand, becuase as most people tend to do, once something is able to be learned there are many who will learn it without an rp reason.
Languages like Common and Ancient which have no racial background (unless your a god) are undertsandable i think in the way theyare learned, as would any other language that would be used to bridge the gap between various cultures. butracial languages could at least be made to learn alot slower. without the heavy boosts in skill given by the elven teacher since a racial language hasmore to it then a common type language would.

Common was created by the Salkamaerians.

http://www.moonsilver.de/english/races/humans.htm wrote:Lightfolk (Salkamaerian)They live in towns, villages and castles. The origin of the Salkamaerian way of life is the old city Salkamar. It is also the origin of the common language and writing system.

To be honest, i think common should be the language for human and others, the language of trade. there shouldn't be an own human language. and yes, i play humans too. for me that would be okay.

I agree upon that, and i would... (sorry if it sounds cruel.. really) give orcs impaired common; i mean anyone who speaks in grunts would be ready to speak a complex system.. most POs of orcs corrupt the common as it is; and that is good; but i would give orcs a bit less just the same.