Illarion.org

Hello, fellow Illarians!

I´m starting this thread, because I´ve read enough about MISUSE and UNNESSECARY VIOLENCE. Some people here seem more concerned with being GOOD then playing a ROLE!
A BALANCED world is one, that holds good AND evil. At the moment, Illarion consists of mostly good people, that fight against some minor monsters. People like Wanderer are called PlayerKillers, and are hated by the so-called Good Guys.
I would consider Illarion at this point a bit DISBALANCED. There are no major powers of evil, but a lot of good. If someone wants to play an evil role, he/she is attacked not only in game, but also on the board. People bring 20th century ethics into a fantasy environment - and that´s not what it is about.
Fantasy means creating something that´s different from your own surroundings. Being something you are normally not. It doesn´t mean playing a druid with the moral thinkings of a salesman!
Almost everybody here seems to think, that the christian belief of good is the only way of correct thinking. Remember: This is a RPG without the GM, who plays the evil enemies for you!
I think, that for some people it means a lot of fun to play evil roles, while some prefer the good side or even something between. There are more shades of colour between black and white!

Well I guess I should reply to that.
Am I concerned about being good? Well, I don't want to discuss now what good or evil is and how our thinking is influenced by christian ethics. Things are far more simple. I (the char Echnaton) simply don't like people who kill others (especially weaker ones) for  no reasons. I'm not saying this is good or bad, I just do it. I help people as far as possible and characters who want to destroy other people/my friends, will be fighted by me. I (Echnaton) believe this is justice and as long as I live I will fight for it, even die for it.
My last posting wasn't intended to say something like "hey kill wanderer - he is a pk", though I have to admit that I as Echnaton am disappointed of how few people really tried to stop wanderer.
It was intended to show some weakness in gameplay. (balanced refers to the gameplay) RPG is not only fighting but it is no chatworld either. Above all RPG means adventure and excitement. Where is the fun if the so-called evil cannot hurt me? Where is the fun for the evil if they know they can't be killed? Where is the fun when I can kill demons alone?
It would be fun if a group of eg 3 people decides to hunt the evil knowing it will be a close fight. It would be fun if you fight the demon in a group because you couldn't kill it alone.

Echnaton (and sometimes the player behind)

Echnaton i have been killed more times than i can count. I am not the strongest player, but i am one of the smartest. With my old character i would never back down from a fight, even surrounded by a dozen people because i didn't have to. With this new character i use hit and run tactics and usually hide.

Most of the killings i have been doing resently have been provoked. I admit that some were uncalled for but not too many. Some people provoke me then call me a player killer when i kill them. Some examples are a guy walked up to me and a friend and said HE was wanderer, he didn't introduce so i took it out on all the human looking characters on the game. Another example is somebody( I'm sure it was Guardian of Illarion) Thought it funny to trap me in boxs when i was killed while training in the caves, and proceeded to hit me as a ghost, i'm not sure if you keep losing stats.

I also play with other people. I have many times gone down into the caves with others and killed the worms, demons, spiders and beholders with my bow so they wouldn't die. If you don't believe me ask garyth, antarion, mikey or even just random people. I have many many times helped out players that just started, just to have them be called pks because they interact with me, and usually end up quitting there new character.

Echnaton, how long have you been playing. I am not a long veteran of this game, but i have put my time in. So you think its unfair that this character and my fighting style is too good and cheating!!! Well wake up little boy/girl and let me put some real life facts into play, there is always going to be someone better, smarter, and in my case much better looking then you. So quit your crying and go train so you can match some stronger players.

The Shadowen Empire is the evil you are talking about you just wait and see how the world of Illarion Rots under your little Good Guy feet. You are in for the surprise of your life.

ooc:
I have nothing against you personally wanderer. It is good that there are some evil players - this means action and fun. I'm even thinking about making my own little chaotic guy for taking part in the great evil attack that one can already feel.
I just don't like the combat system as it is now. You know what I'm talking of. I was attacking you together with another guy and you were standing in the middle and probably were digging for some ressources :)
There is no real ways of fighting clever besides these fields.
And as for the time you have invested in the char. I don't have any idea about magic but I know about the skills. We both know that i doesn't take more than hour to train a char which is able to kill demons and which is able to block your or my hits.
It would be far more interesting (for you too I think) if fighting would be a real challenge where you have to take care of your hitpoints.....

Personally,

I think everything IS balancing out.

I am not sure but I think Bror changed the demon alittle. he is alittle harder to his, and has a shit load of life. If you don't have someone to heal you can not so good parry you will not survive long.

Secondly as far as gameplay.. You can't expect everyone to play by your point of view. Some players are simply better roleplayers than others. Except it, set and example and hope they will learn. That is all you can do. These pointless posting lead to nothing actually. If you so iunterested in game play try and do it IN game without going OOC and if you do go OOC whisper.

Lastly Wander I respect you, especially since the psot of yours is perfectly true.

I still stand for all players of Illarion, I will assist or protect those that I feel deserve it.

Do not take my kindness as weakness. If I find out you try and trick me or simply lie, I will not protect you can may even hunt you down.

The fighting balance.. well some players will fight, some will not others will have to.
Be patient friends, the Gods are still working thier best to insure a great world for us and many things are still being tested and such. Remeber this is Alpha version.

That is all for now.

First of all, this thread was NOT meant to discuss the balance of the game SYSTEM. As every other RPG it has to undergo the changes that develop from play-testing. I understand that, and I didn´t criticise it.
But, and this goes especially to you, Dax, it´s about the ATTITUDE towards ROLEPLAYING. I don´t care about how experienced sombody is in RPGs. I don´t give a damn about his char. I just want to give some thoughts here that COULD lead to better roleplaying.
I respect Wanderer for his courage to play somebody, that doesn´t fit in any cliché. He´s neither totally evil and in no way good. He´s living his own life, and nothing more. His char´s got contours, something that can´t be said of more than a handful of chars in Illarion. Dax, if you think this postings don´t get us anywhere, why do you bother with reading them? I believe that DISCUSSIONS always lead somewhere. But IF you read them, read them carefully.
I WILL play my chosen role IN game, but that´s just me. In which place other than the board could I discuss these things with others? While playing, I act as my char, not as the player behind it.
Echnaton, you´re right about the importance of the game system for roleplaying. But why not going beyond it? Even if you could kill the demon alone, where´s the hurt in taking others with you? As a knight of the Grey Rose you should learn to act WITH others in battle, and what better place could there possibly be?
I like Illarion because of the opportunities you have in playing a role. Most other MUDs don´t give you these. But this forum´s for IMPROVING it, and that means reading different peoples opinions. I think that even you, Dax, should grant me this possibility.

Antarion,

Don't blow a fuse man.

I post my own opinions and my own views. Almost always I say this. If you don't agree that is fine. I don't have to agree with you. Anyhow I think Illarion is still young and just needs time to grow. As I said, play your part, set an example and try to teach others without making them feel like they aren't doing something wrong. Then they will follow.

The easy going and sometimes ruefull..

Don't get me wrong Antarion. I never said that I don't hunt in parties. It is something different if you have healers and magicians around you and it's simply fun. But I would like it alot more if I would need to attack the demon together with others in order to kill it. It is the tension I miss because I know that the demon is no real threat. And you are totally right if you say that a knight of the grey rose should be able to act with others in battle, I even think this is one of the most important points of RPG-playing.
Finally I'm fully aware that this game is still being developed and it is a good game with already a lot of possibilities. I just posted these things because I think that it is first of all important for the developers to have some feedback and secondly because some of the things I proposed are easy to realize. And lastly I was dissapointed that I couldn't do anything, couldn't stop wanderer from doing things that I dislike.

Teacher,

You can stop Wanderer. He is not very strong though he is very smart. Out wit him and suprise him.. or simply be strong enough to where he knows better than to start something unless he takes a risk of dying quickly.

These things aren't for sure to get him, but it helps. I have found ways to grow very strong. Come walk with me one day and we can chat.

I look forward too seeing you soon Mein freund.

Bro

I dont see why theres any discussion about wanderer ...

the more you talk about him, the more important you make him...and he aint important at all

I dont mind about anything that got to do with jocas characters...he doesnt play evil he doesnt play good...HE DOESNT PLAY

thats the point...he insults...he never talks ingame with me (the only things I hear from him is that he is  the smartest coolest player...hottest killer...his words are modern words like f*** and so on)...so whos interested in it...NOT ME

So leave me alone Jocas, Taun

Its okay Taun!! I didn't know you were so left out about me not talking to you!!!!
I'll make you the center of the world if you want!!!!
Don't be jealous, its okay.

Wanderer can play... and he can do great rpg insults too. If he leaves the modern languague out it would get much better yeah.

i didn't read the whole thread (i'm a bit busy at the moment...), but i'd like to state, that being evil does NOT only consist of killing others.

playing an evil role is mostly much more difficult than just being good or "neutral". let you fantasy do it for you, be creative, try new things. of course, killing could be *part* of it, but it shouldn't be the main part of the whole thing. ask yourself what real "evil" ppl do etc.

martin

"Wanderer" plays a person who loves fights, and who loves to provoke.  He plays a Thug (Raufbold). If there was a pissibility to fight someone unconscious and then manage to steal a small amount of gold from him, i guess we all would miss some coins hehehe...
Wanderer is getting much better with roleplay in the last time.

Ok...sorry JOCAS...

maybe i misjudged you...the whole powerplaying thing just gets on my nerves...in fact its not you fault...was a little bit furious about it...

SORRY, Taun