Illarion.org

You can do it all here. Created for your convenience by PO Misjbar.

Keep it neat and tidy, this is NOT the off-topic board.

The debate topic is ambiguous to begin with. With no standard of just how much background we are talking about (I will assume absolutely zero) and what is meant exactly by a "meaningful character", both sides would ultimately be making their own interpretation of what the topic really means and each advancing points that are not mutually exclusive, therefore leaving both sides to be right in their own argument.

Is a background necessary for an "interesting" character in ITSELF? I'd say it's a no brainer that having qualities and history brings the character to life much more, especially if it was to be focused on as a main character. Just think of the majority of main characters in any story and they'll probalby have history and qualities. If you met a random character in Illarion, this is probaby the type you'd want to have a conversation with and would give more interesting and consistent reactions according to their background.

But is a background necessary for a "meaningful" character who can make a contribution to the story or other characters as a WHOLE? That is infact a very different question. How much do you know about Legolas or Gimli other than some basic sterotypical characteristics? Probably not much, but that doesn't stop them from making a meaningful contribution to the overall story concept or its enjoyment as a whole. I might also use Dyluck in my earlier years as an example, but I'll attest that the world worked a bit differently back then. Anyhow, In Illarion, background then, isn't necessarily a pre-requisite for a character to meaningfully contribute a part to Illarion's image as a whole.

I consider this a difference between interpersonal and marco-level aspects of the Illarion world.

It's almost strange that I would say this point in a place like this, but a significant reason that Illarion in my eyes has been held back from advancing further to its full potential in recent years, despite improvements in the interpersonal aspects of the game, is rooted from not realizing a difference between the interpersonal aspects and the marco-level aspects of the game, and the lack of attention given for the latter, in the wake of over-shifting focus for the former. The interpersonal aspect may be what makes interactions enjoyable in "itself" for its participants, but the marcro-level aspect is the impression of Illarion as a "whole" that is created for the outsiders looking in, which is needed to sustain future inflow of participants. There's still much more to be said but I'll stop here, unless there are some people who understands thus far and wants to hear more.

It seems we have a debater here.

Well when I started Moathia, I didn't have a backround history for her, and then someone asked "Where do you come from?" I thought oh shit. Then in a panic I used the base of the elfess in the forest story that I had to do for the account, and built around that, so she ended up hating humans for awhile untill the island folk showed her that they were not all bad, she also hated the goddess Elara, but again with help she overcame that and then began to serve her. Now I have a vauge backround created in my mind when I make the character, and then build off that when I get a new idea while playing.

Im siding with neither.

It all depends on the person, and the entire debate has no level of story.
For instance, Capus has a very simple history. He was bought as a toddler and raised as a slave.

Nothing fancy, but the character himself attracts alot of meaningfull RP and attention. I mean, he is the first Child Brewer in Gobaith ^-^

-J

A background, needed or not needed.

No in my opinion. When i first started the game with Aristeaus he had no back ground, and his background was developed over time through the people he interacted with to the character he became. For new players to the game, not many will realise what they wish from the game and shall stumble along till they find thier niche. You may say that a char like this has no depth, but you would be wrong, a back ground does not mean a character has not got emotion, emotion is what is needed for a char in my opinion no more. How does he act, etc etc.

Developing a background over time, how can it work. Quite easily.. If someone came to me in rl and asked about my past, i would tell them to mind thier business. A character can give his back ground when he is ready. For example Aristeaus in all the years a gaming has shared his background with only a handfull of people, and even fewer know his second name. I think this in itself adds depth to a character, and the back ground which is formed through long amounts of time of roleplay will be far more indepth than one created from the void.

Emotion, why needed more than a background... In my opinion a background does not make a character, a characters attitude makes a characters roleplay. Be he a happy go lucky rogue, or a strict minded bore. For a simple example of a characters character you can look into D&D and choose an alignment to play to... it would be a very brief guideline, but it would be something to play to.

Edit 1 : I would like to add i dont know the character Pendars background, and i roleplay with him in various situations.

May I remind you that it is more for personal reference, and so you can RP better, and more believable? No one knows Misjbar's background, well, some people who left by now, but it gives me so much inspiration and it allows me to RP to my full ability.

Oh wait, this is not the debate thread

None of my chars were made with a background, i think they have been succesfull. All my characters have a set emotion, with a background built over time. Why restrict your roleplay

Edit 1 : You say Misjbar never shared his back ground so how did his back ground aid him? You could have just as easily created the char with an emotion of dislike for other races. If he was asked why he disliked the other races, i doubt he would have answered thier question. And this would give the PO the disliker the chance to create a good reason over time from seeing other races roleplay IG.

As I am the writer of 'how to create a char/how to give it depth' I should give my statement too.

The reason why I wrote this thread was because I recognized more and more newbies without any concept for their char.
I do not say, that everyone has to write a perfect, complete CV for their chars; my intention was it to just point out for the new players that they should do some thoughts before. (or else I would have post it into the general and not into the 'newbie' forum, wouldn't I? )
And give some tips if they wish to do more.

The most of us have a natural understanding how to roleplay, how to make a char interesting, but not all of us or it wouldn't have occured to me ingame.

I started the same like Aristeaus and Moathia. I created my char and thought: "I want to play a warrior" but in the same moment I thought about how to play her. Serious? Feminine? Boyishly?
The first time someone asked her ingame about her past I got the same panic as Moathia but just answered with: I don't want to talk about that.
And also today I mostly create a concept for the chars behavior and then after I'm already ingame I'm thinking about the details.
To play a char without spending any thought about its background would be impossible for me, simply because I try to animate my chars as good as I can. I give them a life.

Here's a provocative statement: Without a good knowledge of the game world, it is not even possible to have a believable background. So newbie characters are better off developing their background as they go along than with an ill fitting background.

Just look at my start with Illarion: I had a pretty good idea of a character that I actually wanted to play, with a background story and family. Unfortunately, he was some sort of mage. When I had found out that magic was still missing from the game, I put him on ice and I'm playing him in a regular roleplaying campaign instead.
So I though of another character. Less background, no family ties but still a certain idea of what he would be like and what he should do. Unfortunately he was some sort of ranger. When I had found out that there is not huntable game in the woods of Illarion and that archery is hideously expensive to learn, I just let him roll and he developed into a fighter. I still play him but there's not much left of his background as it did not fit the world well.

By a far reach, not everything you know from RL or fantasy role playing is actually working in Illarion. So you can't excpect anybody to bring the perfect background along.

Aristeaus wrote:None of my chars were made with a background, i think they have been succesfull. All my characters have a set emotion, with a background built over time. Why restrict your roleplay

Edit 1 : You say Misjbar never shared his back ground so how did his back ground aid him? You could have just as easily created the char with an emotion of dislike for other races. If he was asked why he disliked the other races, i doubt he would have answered thier question. And this would give the PO the disliker the chance to create a good reason over time from seeing other races roleplay IG.

May I remind you that this dislike came over time? You have obviously spend too little time with me. In the beginning, I was tending more to the german side of the roleplay, I even had days that I completely RPed in German, which was fun, because I sucked at it, and therefor, some of the players who have now left knew Misjbar totally...Inside and out.

And, your background will always aid you. Wether you have a fear for spiders (Helloooooo Hermie (I believe)) which might have come from an earlier trauma. But I should not discuss this here I suppose. I might give away all my arguments .

I am only going to add one thing this debate to was started in the spirit of toast master's, that simply is debate and public presentation for the fun of friendly debate and concept exchange.
Not all ideas i put forward will be my view entirely at the same time non I place up will be utter crap or something I feel could be counter productive to healthy roleplay.
The concept behind the debate was for me at least not reach the truth of the matter or put down other peoples ways or concepts. Simply to take one aspect of roleplaying in illarion put it under the spot light and play with points of view.
Brian

Nop is right,
they dont even know everything about the gameworld.

The best way in my opinion: make some kind of very vague background, then spice it up as you go.