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Okay, this will put me at the mercy of many, but who cares. Now I train and train, against monsters and players both weak and strong. I sometimes have up to 5 players attacking me at once but my parry never rises!! I fight with every weapon but my Fighting skills and parry never increase past a certain point. I do not have this problem with magic or regular skills like mining, carpentry, etc.

I set out to test if their was something wrong. I did some peasantry so the word peasantry just appeared. Then i proceeded to commit suicide. I killed my self 6 times and then checked my skills. I know that skill loss is less, but i didn't lose any skills at all!!! My peasantry was still there and none of my skills dropped that i can tell.

If you don't believe me, screw you, but i need to know if its a problem or just i suck.( people are probably gonna say i suck they can kiss my halfling ass). I know this is alot to ask but Bror could you look in to it, I know I'm your favorite player so think of it as me doing you a service of getting to look into a master player,  Just don't cut my stats like you did before.

Hey, who needs a parry when he always runs away?
Wanderer, skill rise depends on your attributes. And skills don't sink byond a certain level. If you have created a charakter with some very low attributes and some very high attributes the skills that depend on the low attributes will not or only very slowly grow.

Hallo

bror what have i to do to become ur most favorite player ?? *g* ;-)

Bye
Read ya
MfG

Capt. Kirk

1. If you die, there is a random loss of skills. It is possible, that no skill drops, but not very likely. Skills never drop below a certain amount (some of your skills are exactly at this amount).
2. To rise your parry, there must be the following situation:
- An enemy must attack you and inflict damage
- Your parry skill should not be significantly higher than his attack skill (i.e. an insect with 10 attack can't teach you parry, if your parry is at 90)
If this both happens, a die roll is made, that MAY rise your skill at random.
3. To rise your attack skills, your skill should not be much higher than the parry skill of your opponent.

As you can see, a strong character can't train with monsters like insects or mummies. He must engage stronger opponents and take the risk of dieing. Training in a group of monsters that don't hurt, while away from keyboard shouldn't be possible any more this way.

I looked at your character and would say that the strong monsters should still be able to teach you much. If the players, that attacked you are weak, it doesn't matter if there are five of them - they won't teach you fighting.

For more detailed view on fighting and connected skill gain, look in the thread "combat system" on this board.

Ah! So your saying I'm just being a complainer about having to do more work. I do train against really strong characters. I get killed by aries alot and fight him but my skills never increase. I also fight ogres, which are all i can handle because like i said my skills are really low. I fight skeletons alot, but they usually kill me without having on two shields. Whether the players are weak or not does not seem to matter. The other day i pissed off 5 girls and they started to attack me. Without having on both shields i would have died instantly, as it was they still almost killed me with them both on.( they didn't kill me once although i killed them each several times)

Now that whole master gamer thing was a joke, but i do know how to increase my skills. I've trained for hours with players that could kill me in one or two hits with me having a sword and shield on with out any increase in skills. I am pretty sure that I'm doing everything according to what works.

If you happen to have the time maybe you could use my character in a test like you did when comparing darkwalker and damien. Again your welcome for giving you the opportunity to work with a Truly great being like myself.( I am king of arrogance!!)

hehehe...
Hmmm, perhaps the learning chance can be changed so that you only learn from hits of monsters you attack too - ( perhaps even when they make no damage ? ) Sounds a bit logical. Powergaming would be reduced, because the monsters die from the attacks, and one has to stay at the computer.
I have the problem (not only with this char, but with the fighter too) that, when i train with strong monsters without two shields, they inflict great damage. I have to drink a healing potion after each hit. That drinking seems to stop my attacks, and short while after i cannot drink a potion - lag perhaps, or action points ? no idea  -  and die. Without learning something. Perhaps, when in fights the live power(of players and stronger monsters) would be changed to 10 times the actual one (livepower * 10) or something like that, it would be possible to do longer fights, without being killed too quick to learn. Perhaps you can play such situations through on the test server ?
When a strong monster regenerates faster than ONE player causes damage, it is necessary to kill it with more players (doing more damage in the time). Perhaps a monster can change its target after every hit, too (only targets in reach, if not, stick to the nearest one).
That would ensure more team hunt than now. And all participants would learn from the monster, instead of only the attacked one

(Edited by Damien at 6:12 pm on April 25, 2001)

Hallo

u pissed off 5 girls ?? lol
what did u ?? *g*

Bye
Read ya
MfG

Capt. Kirk

To Damien: This is a post about my problems!!! If you have ideas put it on the proposal board until i understand what is wrong, if anything.

To Kirk: Heh, i kept stealing their shovels and making them buy them back. Then i would surround them with fields, but i never set the fields on them until then attacked me first (well i did hit a orc 1 time, but i didn't try and kill her like they tried with me). The killing was self-defense!!! Honest.

Hello,

Wander, Damien I feel the same.

I have trained and the ONLY way for me to get hurt by demon or rottworm is to take off my shield and use only a sword. two swords works too.. but thewn the rott worm hits so fast that I can not heal intime and I died

And so I took more precations and trained for a very long time "I knew it was long because I have over 100 gems each" But My Parry AND Slashing skill only went down.

I admit my skills were very near maxxed, but if My skill's were higher than the Hardest creature how can I possibly train to get better? That means I am doomed to get worse no matter what I try.

Is there some other way? From what I read in combat system If I am the highest in skills in Illarion than I am the only one who will not gain skill.  =(

Now My skills have gone down dramatically and I am no where near what i used to be. Get on and take a look bror. I died once yes, but otherwise I was maxxed.

Wanderer you think you got it bad? My Fighting skills are bout halfed and have been that way for so long.I've trained like hell and died like and so on adn they droped when I died but I trained them to where they were and they stoped agian.Which is why I gave up on training.Doesn't help me so BLAH

MD

See bror!! I'm not the only one. Not to put your system down, but it sucks!! I'm not the only one who thinks so. If you were to start a post where you vote whether the majority of the players like the new system, i can almost guarantee very few will. I think that you should be able to train your skills to a certain level, but after that you would have to pay or solve a quest for some kinda master who will put up your stats more, different skills like distance and concussion, different masters.

If you also didn't relize this, characters from the old game are insanely strong, which i proved with darkwalker. They will soon become weak though. Like aries said his skills drop, and when the strongest players skills get low there will be nobody to train on to increase them higher. Pretty soon everyone will be so weak it would be useless to fight strong monsters, they get ko'ed in one hit.

I don't know if i'm the only one who thinks this, but the fighting system is in the crapper. I still use more magic then weapons, but i like to get in the fray sometimes and bash some skulls in too.

Naah, it don't suck - it is a test system. And test systems need to be worked on, and has its weaknesses. Hey, this system was changed to this because most of the players wanted it to be changed. It may be another extreme compared to the old thing. But to know if a system is good, and what does not work, you must test it a while. There are many things that can be changed, and all must be adjusted. And Bror always reacts to the player's feedback. Sometime they will have put up this system to a great working thing. But until then we need to test it *g* and THATS fun too!

(Edited by Damien at 12:29 am on April 26, 2001)

The fighting itself is not bad its just the skills.Bror look at my skills.A demon whoop me for good sakes lol. and a rot. even a sopider can kick me around.And just alittle ago I died from boxing.My parry is over half yet I only can kill zombies bats orges and scorps.Well and players but you can read how thay going to react and counter them.But anyways all I'm saying is I don't want to spend like 5 hours trying to move my skills and they don't.I know bout the parry = slash thing and it still didn't work good for me.in another 3 or 4 weeks I'll have to give up fighter or the newbies will kill me for fun

MD

I might have said what i wanted to wrong. I like the fact that everyone takes damage ( or is supposed too) and the monsters are more of a challenge which is a plus, but the skill loss decay thing is crappy. Losing skills when you die is a good idea, but losing skills just because you aren't training them is kinda dumb. Its like telling all the players everytime they get on they have to retrain all their skills or they get worse ( if i understand the system right).

I like the way things are kinda, but i think some kind of experience meter is better. Maybe you could assign monsters a certain exp value for different skills as you kill them. I know that this game is in the testing phase but why must you make it harder and harder to play. everytime people find a good way to do something and get better someone crys and you go off and change it, which is sometimes good, but i think more bad. A game is supposed to be enjoyable, and i admit this one usually is, if nobody is complaining about something.

I know that you value the opionion of your players, but you shouldn't over do it. This is your game after all, and you shouldn't change every little thing people complain about. You should Use some imagination, like seeing how people would react to pigs and sheep that were stronger than worms and killed on sight! You said it yourself that this game is not about popularity, so go wild and see what you get, and stop worrying about what players think for awhile. (especially me and damien, we talk to much, him more).

Hands very tired... to much typing.....

I can't see a problem, if you can't max your skills. Is there an advertisment like "come to Illarion, the game to max your skills"? This game is about having fun with player interaction.
What most players are doing, is powergaming, i.e. drivinig your skills to the maximum, without any reason. It has nothing to do with roleplaying (imagine two friends meet in a bar, sit on two chairs, talk for five hours, while they hit each other with their swords...). I am tolerating this behaviour, but strongly dislike it. One goal of the changed system was to reduce this possibility.

@Dax: You were fighting for a so long time, that you got 100 gems? I am not quite sure, what you mean, but I suppose you were digging for ore, while you were fighting. If so, this was very nice RPG (thats what I meant with powergaming in the above section).
If your skills are the highest in Illarion, you can still learn, because you can learn from people slightly below your skill, as stated in the combat system description.
@Aries: The daemon is supposed to be the strongest monster. There is no need, that you can kill it alone. This game is about player interaction. Get a bunch of people and attack together.

Changes to be made:
- Next time I restart the server, I will remove the skill loss due to time. Skils will still be lost, when dieing or when you are a ghost. I think most mages can't ressurrect since the last change, so you will stay a ghost for a longer time and get your skill loss that way.
- You could only learn fighting skills from enemies that aren't much weaker than you. Next restart the server will concider more monsters to be in this range, where they can teach you something.

Hallo

more monsters ??? yeah

u mean low skilled mages cant ressurect than anymore ?? if so it is ok
i think mages can make money with it coz a mage yet is doomed to be poor

but we need than a new skill for talkin with ghosts

when will u restart the server ???

Bye
Read ya
MfG

Capt. Kirk

the server already restarted

Quote: from Wanderer on 8:19 pm on April 25, 2001

To Kirk: Heh, i kept stealing their shovels and making them buy them back. Then i would surround them with fields, but i never set the fields on them until then attacked me first (well i did hit a orc 1 time, but i didn't try and kill her like they tried with me). The killing was self-defense!!! Honest.

5 girls? I only saw 4 at the same time. And we only tried to kill you because you didn't introduce, because you have stolen some potions and because you didn't leave us alone. And the only reason why you killed Rigby was because she has nearly no magic resistance, my chars are not powergamed.
You wouldn't have survived a swordfight against her, but you ran away.

@you didn't atack first: We told you: Leave us alone or we'll attack you!

But I'm not angry on you in rl, you only made 2 of my chars very, very angry.

(Edited by Eleanor Rigby at 1:37 pm on April 26, 2001)

Woohooo! So we can talk now for hours and must not worry about a single PK killing us in walking by because we talked too much and trained not enough
Uhm, right Wanderer, we talk much both... but thats better because the masters see more ideas and may find something useful. *g*
cya

Hallo

lol wow wandi is now a merchant *g* how much cost a shovel ?

lol  2 angry chars ?? wow

lol yes u both talk too much *g*

Bye
Read ya
MfG

Capt. Kirk

Well, I think i know what has gon wrong!!! When your magical skill get very High your parry Can not get above the 'Y' in the word Parry. I've had this problem to. This meens you must choose to be a Warrior or a mage!

lol.  Onyx where dooo you get your information....

Onyx,

That is absolutely ridiculous.

It is obvious to me that not only do you talk loudly, but you are not experimental.

I have tried several things and nearly all of them have worked.

My advice, is to gain your parry quickly. There are some in Illarion that do not forgive so easily and even more who share no pity for people like you.

Bro

Okay bror, me and a friend have done some intense training, and i'm proud to say my parry and fighting has increased substantially. I think its because there is no skill loss, if thats not it, then I'm just plain good!!!!!

Do lizards have some kind of special fighting, because they are extremely stong fighters. New lizzards are even a high threat to people with high parry.

Oh and aries, now that i've finally gotten my skills up, me and you need to have a little chat.

Currently the only distinction between the races is the different starting attributes and the graphics

As I said, we are the dominate race.

Secondly, the Lizard Wanderer may be speaking of is me.

I simply train very hard.

And set my "stats" well