better starting choices

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:24 pm

I swear, ifa nyoen gives me "There's more important things to do right now"..... I know, it's for future reference.

Basically, I've been thinking about better starting packages. The current ones aren't great and leave you with little choice, and you wonder why everyone has the same black robe. I'm thinking of goign through something like this:

Skills: The craftsman choice gives you some skills (last i saw). I think that eveyrone should be able to novice 4 non-magic skills. This would allow people to not come onto the island unable to do anything, and would be more realistic.

Items: Basically, you should have a bunch of basic items in a menu, clothes, a few eapons, tools, ect, that you can buy, with about 300 copper starting money. Anything you dont spend you come onto the island with.

This would allow for further customization and allow people to get started with what they wish to do faster. If I didnt explain something well enough, just ask a question and I'll elaborate.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:27 pm

Craftsman gives skills -> [languages] smithin, carpentry.

However i agree that there should be more items...

Also i agree that there should be more choices... if you want to become a carpenter...what use is smithing for you??

I like the idea of having the same amount of money... however no use if the items break down at once [in case of fighter] or seem to remain forever [my hatchet has no property.. just hatchet]

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:30 pm

I would personally like to see this taken one further. As all our characters start with no skill at all I have always had to look at things as
My character was a soldier,
: Warriors on this island due to its nature are some of the finest in all the lands due to the islands dangerouse nature.
: The fact I cant kill a mummie is to be expected as really the fact we soon learn to cut them down in there 100's does not make the walking dead less fiercesome enemys.
etc
My character was a farmer/crafter
:His field was different although he may have been a carpentar or smith, perhaps he has mostly worked with shoeing horses or fitting wagon wheels.
: was a pig farmer or cotton/flax or anything not farmed on the island.

So yes having no skill can be rped around,
How ever why not let people pick a basic class and start with some decent skills. Now i do not use the book of self knowledge I find it silly and it use to be a pain in the... To actually click 20 times looking for the skill you might have advanced.
I do how ever know at one time skills went up to 250 on the color scale..i also know a warrior with 80-100 on the color scale could be useful against monsters but wouldnt beat any/many PVP warriors.

Why dont we let new characters start some what useful ?...I have just created variouse characters to add variety to my game play and hopefully other peoples

. Now I have to find time to just skill them up to a point were they can kill basic monsters or make a basic living...what one "needs" to rp a confident character in illarion.

I dont know lets talk about it
Brian

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:11 pm

Exactly, and I must say, If i got some starting skills, I'd spend less time training and more time rping sicne I already would be of some use.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:42 pm

As a merchant you start with about 170 coins (?) and some built in blacksmithing, mining and carpentry skills. As a mage you start with 250 coins (?) and some library research. The only class that does not give you starting skill at all is warrior, you get the least amount of money and no skill. Instead you get a mace and chain helm and wooden shield. None of it is useful since most people would prefer to specialize in swordplay.

I do like Ules' proposal however, but to much skill to start with I think will undermine people who spent such a long time to get good at their specific skill. On account of, say you want something simple, like a soup bowl made, with your new proposal Ules, a new comer could make a soup bowl without the assistance of anyone else. This will cause problems as most people agree that this game must survive on interaction.
Keep in mind that the next character wipe won't come around for a long time if at all. So you have plenty of time to build your character's skills and personal habits. You do not need to hit the ground running in this game at all.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:59 pm

i dodnt mean much skill, i mean maybe getting to select 3 or 4 and putting them at low amounts (novice according to that one book). Also the money thing but no one seems to disagree with that.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:18 am

Novice level is still far to high, you can make arrows and to many staffs at novice. It is best to leave the skill level at very low, basic, understanding of any skill. It is tough, but giving your character experience in things off the bat is really just the lazy way to do this. Like I said, it would undermine all player interaction the GMs have worked for. If a brand new character can survive with no help whatsoever, which is what you propose, then that is the problem.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:34 am

novice only allowed arrows in the old system, i'm past that and cant make them. and besides, people wil lchoose different things, so there will still be people who need those goods.

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook · Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:12 am

The best way I can think of to make skills more useful economically is to seperate them into like groups. For example carpentry/lumberjacking/peasantry, Smithing/mining/gem cutting. At some time upon creation or starting of the character you assign an order to the groups. The top selection is your 'chosen' craft/profession and has maximum progression. The second and subsequent groups get progressively harder to learn and/or cannot progress to the maximum. For example a smith would learn at the 'normal rate' for smithing, etc. For carpentry group he would learn, say 10% slower and would be limited to one (or possibly two) level less than maximum skill. So the third chosen group would be 20% slower and minus 2 or 3 levels, fourth choice 30% slower and minus 3 or 4 levels.
The things which can be produced at each level would have to be sorted out so that the best most effective/desireable items would only be available at the top levels. (Which I think is intended anyway.)
This wont make a lot of difference at lower levels because everyone will still be able to learn a bit of all skills, just a little slower in some cases. But the top items will only be produced by masters in the field. Forcing people to trade with those masters for the items. In this way nobody could ever do everything for and by themselves.
I have no idea how difficult this would be to code or implement. It is just an idea to improve the 'economy' and trade.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:08 pm

falco1029 wrote:novice only allowed arrows in the old system, i'm past that and cant make them. and besides, people wil lchoose different things, so there will still be people who need those goods.

Arrows--> using a PLANE [surprise surprise].... and they are the 3rd set of things you learn...

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:16 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
falco1029 wrote:novice only allowed arrows in the old system, i'm past that and cant make them. and besides, people wil lchoose different things, so there will still be people who need those goods.
Arrows--> using a PLANE [surprise surprise].... and they are the 3rd set of things you learn...

i'm pretty sure i'm on third set by now, but i could be wrong.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:38 pm

Longbow
White staff [skull staff]
axe handles
ect....

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:38 pm

ok then im not

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:43 pm

Dont lose heart.... y;ll arrive soon....

Belegi · Post by **Belegi** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:27 pm

How about some details? Like this:

Keyword:
Items:
Money:
Skills:

Example:

Keyword: fighter
Items: Mace, wooden shield, cap helmet, trousers, cape
Money: 150 cp
Skills: slashing weapons, concussion weapons, parry

I suggest to keep the list short. You can also think about alternatives; like this:

Keyword: Money
Items: Nothing
Money: 500 cp
Skills: whatever

Keyword: Weapons
Items: Sword, round shield, dagger, bow
Money: Nothing
Skills: slashing weapons, concussion weapons

Keyword: Armor
Items: chain mail, round helmet, boots,gloves
Money: parry, dodge

Keyword: Tools
Items: Hammer, saw, pick, axe, plane, shovel, needle, scissors
Money: lumberjacking, carpentry, smithing, tailoring

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 10:31 pm

Or even better

Keyword: Carpenter
Items: Plane, Carving tools, saw and axe
Money: none

Keyword: Blacksmith
Items: Pincers, cruicible, mould
Money: none

Keyword: Beginner
Items: Daggers, shovel, axe
Money: 200 coins

I think this would be better.

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:54 pm

i like full customization rather than more starting packages, though it'd be harder.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:54 pm

Maybe... but think of the Rp consiquences..

"I want to become a beginner...."

Also carpenters .. the only thing they can sell to NPCS at first is the axehandle.. that takes some time to rach that level.. they would go bankrupt

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:58 pm

There are no roleplay consequences, the little spect of an island you start on isn't really ingame.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:02 pm

I like those lists, we can implement this quite easily. However, race depending starting points are something that has also many benefits. We maybe should improve the salutation, this is all in work.

I tend to give all starting chars some bucks and that's it. Soon, there will be traders in every town that can provide basic tools and goods. Maybe we will also change the teleportes in a way that you can travel from town to town without too much hassle.

Galdwore Darkmoore · Post by **Galdwore Darkmoore** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:45 pm

Garett Gwenour wrote: Keyword: Beginner
Items: Daggers, shovel, axe
Money: 200 coins

This could be changed to:

Keyword: Miner
Items: dagger, shovel, pickaxe
Money: 100 coins.