Realism with food

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:57 pm

1) Rotting... food seems to keep forever, which i dont agree upon... i know due to stacking items this seems hard... but i have the solution...

Every X hours, a percentage of food rots, regardless of when it was picked or cooked.... and forms an new section...

So if you had 10 apples, they become 9 apples, 1 rotten apple

As time moves on, they rot more...

This will create a regenerating industry for food... longer during food... salted....ect.

2) Meat... in the old days, meat was expensive and rare.... however in the game there is a sufficeant supply of it.... due to the pigs ....

Solution :: a herdsman defends his pigs, kill him and you may kill the pigs

[this may impair the leather industry so...]

If you get meat depends on your skill... an expert would cut the pig with one strike, and have meat... a newby would literally rip the pig to shred to kill him... therefore there is not much left but scrap....

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:00 pm

2) is a very bad idea. It would basically mean there is no longer a legal way to obtain meat. The only way would be to kill an innocent person and steal his pigs. What are we? A town of robbers?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:02 pm

You think anyone with a right mind would leave his pigs running around??? wild pigs???

Thats why there is 2B

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:09 pm

No. Rotting I can deal with, I've even roleplayed rotten food from time to time. But 2 is horrible. Until players can own their own pigs and let them breed...no. This would also mean that even simple skinners would need combat skills.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:34 pm

Ok maybe 2A wasn't so good... what about 2B?

EDITED__> as it is Even Simple TAILORS need combat skills... y not the tanners

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:47 pm

Because that would unbalance things even more. I think there are plans to make it so tailors don't need to kill mummies for thread, anyway.

Lance · Post by **Lance** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:16 pm

I concur the food industry is a bit "unreal" however the game is still being built to lets not drive them crazy

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:41 pm

You should be careful, its much more likely a hunger system will be implemented, and if it does, we dont want to have forced a change so theres no food for anyone.

I quite living in a prosperous society where I know I wont starve.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:40 pm

I don't recall meat ever being expensive or rare?

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:58 pm

As far as food rotting, if you want your food to rot RP it has gone bad. I am not big on telling people this and that can just be RPed as I think most new features add to the game.
How ever with so much required still needing to be added, do we really need this?

I would rather see a system were by an npc chared you a fee to be admitted to the pig pen if one had to have an npc there. How ever I would rather see TB's pigs which are no out of town so accesable to everyone on the island "an old problem". Left right alone.

I am sure time will see a hunger system added, as currently being a cook/baker one relys mostly on peoples good rp to make a living. How ever I know for my part if Pendar had been eating appels and pork for weeks and saw a soup,stew or sausage he would certainly desire some.
I am sure most of us are decent enough rpers to act accordingly with things like food...with out having the client police us.
for the moment at least

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:54 pm

Fooser wrote:I don't recall meat ever being expensive or rare?

I was refering to real life... unless you happen to have lived in the medeval period i doubt that you recall it...

Paying an NPC for acess isn't a good idea.. what kind of farmer would do that? a buffet? all you can kill?

RE: rping rotten food... my character picks up all the apples he can find... i currently have more than 50... is it usual for food to last THAT long? salted meat perhaps... but not fruit

Alsyth Astha · Post by **Alsyth Astha** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:14 pm

Then RP that it is rotten.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:20 pm

Ok maybe... but its strange for it to last forver...

Healing potions are supposed to turn toxic aren't they.... why not food

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:31 pm

Since when are fish banned? Fish would be the primary source of meat for an ISLAND. Fishing poles are obtainable through several carpenters I know of.

Thalodos Artemetus · Post by **Thalodos Artemetus** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:44 pm

I don't think this idea is that great, remember it's a game, therefore meant to be fun.

Btw come to Thalodos for your fishing rods ;D

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:02 pm

Gro'bul wrote:Since when are fish banned? Fish would be the primary source of meat for an ISLAND. Fishing poles are obtainable through several carpenters I know of.

Fish is NOT meat... fish would be readily avalable in the old days for people living near the sea... meat as in land animal meat is not...

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:11 pm

Paying an NPC for acess isn't a good idea.. what kind of farmer would do that? a buffet? all you can kill?

It's better then open hunting season for farmers.
The only truely realistic possibilities would be to
1) give animal farming into player hands.
2) remove domestic animals altogether and add wild animals.
3) declare animals public property and everyone can take what they need.

1) would be a hell lot of work to implement, especially as the animals had to be safe also when the player is offline (or maybe make it similar to crop farming)
2) would be possible but require several new graphics.
3) is the way it is now.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:30 pm

Its better if the amount of meat extractable be removed... as i suggested in 2b.... would make more RP sense...

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:32 pm

You get one meat per pig. Is that too much?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:45 pm

If a person practices on pigs, he'll get lots of meat...

My idea is to make it expensive... and create an industry for food that lasts...

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:06 pm

Okay, that's a point.
However, don't make meat production dependend on fighting skills. This way another civilian craft would be drawn into the direction of fighting.

An idea I just made up:
Meat is completely removed from pig loot. At the same time, a new skill is introduced: slaughtering. Slaughtering would be a completely fighting independand skill. To slaughter a pig you have to rope it so it can't move and then use a special tool (butcher's axe) with it. The amount of meat recieved would depend on your slaughtering skill.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:36 pm

I like your idea of slaughtering... however would leather production be effected by it? do you have to slaughter the animal to get leather?

Also RE: amount of meat... are you suggesting that they use a sort of weight... 1 lb of meat... or 1kg of raw meat?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:39 am

There is already enough skill dependency included in leather working. That's why I excluded this here. It can stay where it is or be a byproduct of slaughtering as well, or whatever.

Maybe the quality system could be used to distinguish between, tiny, medium, large pieces of meat. Otherwise I speak of plain item quantities.
A good slaughterer could maybe get two, three, or even four pieces of meat from each pig.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:49 am

There's one technical limitation in the old client. You can't add too many skills on one side of the skill tableaus. And there are many different crafting skills for now.

Another point would be, that a skill slaughtering with only one action / item (pigs) is a bit less to learn.

Perhaps there can be made a skill "foodstuffs", where different kinds of getting food are combined, like fishing, slaughtery, peasantry.
And another skill "cooking / baking", where all work with the results of the first skill is combined.
Has the result, that there are more "items", you can do with one skill.

Furthermore, there has to be implemented, that there is a need of food while working. Now, food is only needed, when the health bar is recovered.
It would be better, if the food level also will sink, while "shift-clicking".
This would create more need for food and enforce the economie.

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:10 am

It is but one skill and there is more than one skill in the menu (including one in the crafting menu) that is not and never will be used, such as the mispelled "carpentery," which can merely be removed and replaced.

I don't see how the butchering of pigs would be any different from, say, the sheering of sheep. One can be done with a tool and is quite easy right now, the other takes a millenia and needs to be done through the fighting system.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:13 pm

Whislt we're on the topic... i agree that a rope be used... pigs aren't stupid [that much]... if you are walking to the and stabbing them with a knife i'd immagine they'd run away squeeling...

In-game.. they just walk around normally...

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:56 am

I would just rather there be several butchers tools, that you can use on the dead animal and get meat parts. Like, you shift+butcher knife, a menu pops up showing "dead pig" "dead sheep", and if you shift+click the pig you can possibly get 2 hams, insides, maybe some other meats we have yet to create. But I do agree domestic animals would be easy to kill, maybe a "butchers hammer" that does damage based on your butchery skill rather than fighting skill?

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:08 pm

Gro'bul wrote:I would just rather there be several butchers tools, that you can use on the dead animal and get meat parts. Like, you shift+butcher knife, a menu pops up showing "dead pig" "dead sheep", and if you shift+click the pig you can possibly get 2 hams, insides, maybe some other meats we have yet to create. But I do agree domestic animals would be easy to kill, maybe a "butchers hammer" that does damage based on your butchery skill rather than fighting skill?

Donal and me tossed around those kind of ideas once on MSN.

We came more or less to the conclusion there should be a specific skill for that field of work (Butchery), perhaps it could even go with Peasantry, but with the use we considered it to work for by itself, it would handle the following:
• damage you can inflict to domestic animals
• quality / amount of edible meat you can win off the slain animal
• quality / amount of hides won from the slain animal

It's used two ways:
• "attacking" domestic animals with a cleaver*
• using a skinning knife** (or just generally a bladed item) on the corpse of a domestic animal

*not using a cleaver could massively reduce or null out the resources won from the corpse after the animal is slain - arrows would be the second-best choice
**using other bladed items than a skinning knife would also furthermore reduce/null out resources won

Graphics it would need:
• animal corpses
(• cleaver & skinning knife items)

--
I personally think that's wiser to have a skill like that, which seperately handles killing defenseless critters... I'm sorry, but I can't take anybody seriously who "trains their fighting skills attacking sheep or pigs". Archery, alright. Melee skills - please, just don't. This just shouldn't be happening, just like people who play non-combattant characters shouldn't go up on fighting skills if all they do is kill domestic critters.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:01 pm

Slight offtopic here, I think Donal found some inspiration elsewhere (do I hear WoW in the background?!).

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:05 pm

Donal? What did he propose here?