Illarion.org

hello. Just wanted to ask if you don't think that it is a bit useless that a beginner smith can smith just nails and sickleheads without help (means carpenter who sells him handles)) and a beginner carpenter can make just staffhandles and wooden plates without help?

noone buys that stuff, no npc, no player. And to find someone who seels for example handles for tools will be damn hard, and a carpenter can't even have that little chance. he CAN make just plates and staffhandles...you can't start an earning or living with that. you need something you may sell to a npc or to players. Or make a npc who buys nails and plates, or so.
perhaps this can be balanced?

thank you very much

Nails? What are they for?

NPCs are in work.
However, I think in the very first beginning, no one should get rich with the stuff he / she crafts. But some basic gold here and there, well, why not.

I don't speak of rich, but at least he should be able to come along with his craft without the need to start other crafts or to go and hunt monsters.

i don't know if tools like hammers, carving tools, planes or so get used up. but when, than the craftmen will have a serious problem in the near future when he isn't able to earn money.

oh, and we won't forget. the items who can be crafted can't be stacked, except nails...so soon the chest of the carpenters will be full, and they HAVE to throw the crafted items away, because they can't store them anymore...that don't fit really with some rp of the characters. Galim for example would never throw something crafted away. but he has the possibility to "offer" them to irmorom, that haven't everyone.

that means the characters can't earn money, and will flood their chest with nearly useless items.

Can your depot get full actually? And, on the side, nails are very very very lucrative on today's market. I would offer you 10 copper per nail . Carpenters are in dire need of them.

Okay. now I am really confused.

Today I thought "Lets buy some sicklehandles so that I may build sickles with my sickleheads and that bought sicklehandles". So I invested my last money into sicklehandles. just to find out that I CAN'T set them together to complete sickles yet! GREAT. But!. I CAN set throwaxes together. With the resources in my belt. But I CAN'T make axeheads!

That means I can do sickleheads, but can't set the heads and handles together to sickles, but i can't make axeheads, but set axeheads and handles together when they are in my belt..


WHERE is there the logic and sense? I don't seem to understand it. this way the smith is forcd to buy everything to set sometghing together. And he can't smith anything to earm money with. he can just pay money, and can't earn..hooray...that don't sounds very smart, sorry
i think i am going to be crazy *sighs*

Could you please rephrase your story. At some point along the second line, I got lost, and could not follow.

Just because you can make the metal part of the tool does not mean you know how to fit it together with a handle.

yes, but i DO know how to fit a handle and a metal part of a tool together of which i dont know how to make either the handle, nor the metal part. and i think an throwaxe is more difficult than a sickle

Where was the point that we mentioned the knowledgable sentence "Illarion is perfect"?
I forgot, but I guess there's some hidden place on the website where it can be found.

We are in the state of doing the technical things. Please send complaints to nowhere@nirvana.hv

Martin

martin the e-mail doesnt work...

A way to stop all the complaints, post a non-working link...

But why not try posting it on the technical boards instead, because i see more complaining than proposing

martin, i wrote this because the smithing system WAS already overworked. and because the overworked system don't see very logical nor good working. you see what i mean?

Your right, its not logical. It should require a few logs of wood and about 50 coal to start a funace, you should have someone constantly blowing bellows on it while someone else adds the iron ore, let it melt into pool of slag and wait for the perfect time to take out the bloom or you get soft iron or cast iron. Then you must spend hours shaping the bloom into something useful, constantly reheating the metal in the furnace. For weapons, you would have to anneal several times, and temper it. This could take 150+ coal. Raising a helmet is especially time consuming, a 50 hour job for an experienced armorsmith, granted much of the time is used for heating spots on the metal.
I think changing the items is a good idea, but as for not being logical, that would be rediculous for the programmers and the players to have a truly logical smithing system.

Galim wrote:you see what i mean?

I already saw what you meant before, however you didn't see what I mean, which is a common happening.

It was overworked *TECHNICALLY*. I said we are doing the TECHNICAL things, and to be honest, I don't give a damn shit about needed skills for items. I don't even want to waste a second of my time thinking about it. I am responsible for the technical part, this is non-technical. We are doing technical things currently (yeah, I know myself that I am repeating myself, but I found that saying things once won't be heard).

Illarion is still not perfect nor bugfree.

Martin

What Martin wants to say: Make a proposal! Write down which items should be craftable at which skill level for the different skills. For the skilllevels you don't have to use exact numbers, just make a rating from 1-100 or such.

Game balance is a very hard task. Of course one could make it like everyone can do everything at once. But this would be a lame game, eh?

I hope I understood you right, Martin. If not, sorry!

well, the problem is not that such a system of crafting would be a problem in the future, but it is one yet. in the future a starting smith cans earch hismelf a master for whom he smithes the head, and the master set them together, or for whom the starting smith set the axeheads and handles together and sells them for the master.

but at the moment such "matser/schoolar" rp isn't possible much.

a simple solve would it be to have a npc who buys one of the beginners items of each craftmenship. it don't have to be paid well. or give the beginners an item to smith which can be crafted from the beginning. like needles for smiths, or a simple bow for carpenters. a simple bow is just some wood with a yarn between the ends...shouldn't be too hard

So, you propose that needles / bows can be crafted by newbies? We are getting closer to a proposal martin will like. How about an ordinary staff for carpenters and a simple helmet for smithes? But, hey, isn't it true that a newbie can smith / carpenter such things? So, the game lacks NPCs that buy the stuff, right?

In work. Takes some time, though.

needles are not so hart to make. and simple bows ( i dont speak of elven bows) aren't either. i could make one. i hast have to search some good piece of wood and need same yarn. of course that would be more a toy than a weapon, but i never said it should be a great bow

Perhaps a simple staff as it was before?

Plates are the only thing you can create with the plane for the beginning... what can you do with plates??? my depot is swarming with them...

Its better if everyone is allowed to create all the items, but they have different properties;;;

ie-> a sword created by a newbie will be slower, while that by an expert will be much faster... and the game will balance out eventually, as the expert's would inevitably be more expensive.

hmmm...
You sort of missed the whole leveling up period. I have never thought it to be much fun to be able to make tons of items, when you have no idea which is the better one... And thats what RPGs are about going up levels being able to do NEW things not the same things but a bit better.

i didn't really understand the point...

However my character can only create plates and bowls... and this is boring...

Instead of ALL the items, why not a few and then increase ::

Like-> Dagger Handle> Short sword Handle > Long sword Handle > Broadsword Handle ect...

That way everyone can create all types of items... but they are all slightly different...

Like -> Short Bow > Long Bow > Elven Bow ect...