Illarion.org

After the wipe:

I have to post that to avoid frustration after the wipe. We have implemented many great new features. But some of them are not balanced because we have no time and no testers. So we need all of you. If something is wrong don’t post only. That is bad, bring back the old. Say exactly what is wrong. In which way can we do it better. The most professions are much harder then in the old system. But maybe more interesting than clicking 1000 times into the nothing. You have to make more working steps to produce one item, and other things increases the degree of difficulty more. On the other side we want more realism but fairer prices. This is the problem. We don’t know fair prices after the wipe. So say if something wrong. If you say.... smithing is to hard. Because i need 10 minutes to get 5 pieces of coal and after that i forged in 20 minutes only one dagger and sold it for only 2 gold. Thant ist to hard. In this case we can increase the prices or the mining rate. Dont stop playing frustrated, say exactly what is wrong and what we can change to make it better. We have no clue in which way all the change will effect the economic, fighting, and magic system of the game. We have orientated us on experience values, which can be totally wrong. In my personal opinion we have to increase the most prices in the next weeks dramatically. And also change much other things and maybe in a few weeks we have a stable economic system and playing is again fun for everyone.


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Nach dem Wipe:

Ich möchte das hier schreiben und Frustration nach dem Wipe ein wenig zu dämpfen. Wir haben eine Menge schöner neuer Features eingebaut. Aber einige von denen sind auf Garantie nicht richtig ausbalanciert. Uns fehlen dazu einfach die Tester und vor allem Zeit. So brauchen wir euch. Wenn etwas nicht so läuft wie es sollte, sagt nicht einfach: Das ist schlecht, macht die Änderung rückgängig. Sagt genau was falsch ist und wie wir es besser machen können. Die Meisten Berufe sind zum Beispiel schwieriger als im alten System, aber vielleicht auch interessanter. Man braucht mehr Arbeitsschritte um etwas zu produzieren, und andere dinge machen das ganze noch etwas schwieriger. Auf der anderen Seite wollen wir mehr Realismus und Fairere Preise. Aber hier liegt das Problem. Wir kennen keine wirklich fairen Preise nach dem Wipe, wir werden selbst ins kalte Wasser geworfen. Also sagt wenn etwas nicht stimmt. Wenn ihr sagt: Schmieden ist zu schwer weil... ich brauche 10 Minuten um 5 stücke Kohle zu bekommen. Nachdem ich dann 20 minuten geschmiedet habe habe ich nur einen Dolch den ich für 2 Gold verkaufe, dann ist das wirklich etwas hart. In diesen falle können wir zum Beispiel den Preis erhöhen oder die Mining rate. Hört dann nicht einfach frustriert auf mit Spielen. Sagt genau was falsch ist und was wir besser machen sollten. Wir haben selbst keine Ahnung in welcher Art all die änderungen das Wirtschafts, Kampf und Magiesystem beeinflussen. Wir haben uns nur an Erfahrungswerten orientiert, und diese können ebenso falsch sein. Meiner Meinung nach müssen wir wohl in den nächsten Wochen die Preise enorm steigern. Und auch andere Dinge noch ändern. Aber vielleicht haben wir in ein paar Wochen ein Stabiles Wirtschaftssystem in dem das Spieler wieder den meisten Spaß macht.

Will we be told exactly how to do the crafts in the next announcement or newsletter or whatnot? Or do we have to try figuring it out ourselves?

I don't know. To say it clearly, I don't know how to craft items. Because i have only implemented the lua scripting language, what the scripters have done with it. How crafting works is not my area.

falco1029 wrote:Will we be told exactly how to do the crafts in the next announcement or newsletter or whatnot? Or do we have to try figuring it out ourselves?

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:I don't know. To say it clearly, I don't know how to craft items. Because i have only implemented the lua scripting language, what the scripters have done with it. How crafting works is not my area.

That means no we won't be told.

We damn well better be told! Especially if crafts are going to be so complex. Complexity leads to too many variables which leads to you can't figure it out!

I know what you mean. I don't personally like the idea that skills are getting harder (yet again). Last time that happened, it took four months to master something (with moderate powergaming), now how long is going to take? A few years?

I know, that will be pretty bad. I think that right now they should up how fast certain parts will up the skill

The sound of this worries me a little bit, but I won't speak bad of it until I try it out for a few days after the wipe

I bet no one will own plate mail for at least 6 months if it really is that slow.

I don't think, that the skills will be harder. More that different skills are needed to craft something. This also means perhaps different people to craft one tool. Perhaps for a hammer a smith for the head and a carpenter for the wooden part and a toolmaker for combining these two.

Like I said, unless they up how fast you can learn the skills, I already know it wil ltake too long.

How can you say that it will take too long? Examples:

A sword takes 10 seconds to make and most people have the skill to make it, perhaps it costs around 100g?

Now the same sword takes 30 minutes to make with multiple people combining to create different parts, this same sword is worth perhaps an ingot or two.

the whole economy of illarion will change as a result of the newly implemented crafts. Remember economies will evolve to compensate what is going on around them (in theory). If for some reason the economy does not evolve on it's own then GM input will be needed to sort it out.

Honestly, we don't have enough players to have a smith, a carpenter, and a toolmaker, plus a surplus of customers and guards and others wanting a product. Everyone is going to pick one of a few common trades, and everyone else will be left with naught. It'll take too long, plain and simple. And the economy will be horrible.

Edit:
Just had to add that how many people actually play at one given time? We have 15 on a good day, 24ish on an awesome day? How is that enough to implement such a system of even more tradeskills?

Yes but in an ideal/correct playing environment that is how it should work. If we have this environment or not is up to debate.

ezo wrote:Yes but in an ideal/correct playing environment that is how it should work. If we have this environment or not is up to debate.

See my edit above. We don't have the numbers for it. We don't need theories and conjectures. We need effectiveness, which is the current system we have (barely).

We need mass deflation

Lets giving it a chance first Cain.. if we get on and tell with in a few days that it wont work.. we'll need immedaite action. If we do it for afew weeks and it doesnt work out, then we can find another way. OR this could be a great system that we'll end up loving! Who knows a few years for now you could be fighitng to keep the new system we are geting to stay just like we one we have now

Exactly, with what we have,m we may have to wait days to get the next part we need for something, because so few people would actually do the trade needed.

Kincent Nolatri wrote:OR this could be a great system that we'll end up loving!

Ah... no. Not with our numbers, not with how little a group we are nowadays. Maybe three years ago it would have worked, when you'd see 30-40 people on at a time on average, but not in this current state. Obviously we're going to have to give it a try, so I'll give it a try, but I'm sure I won't like it. Just my way.

Kincent Nolatri wrote:Who knows a few years for now you could be fighitng to keep the new system we are geting to stay just like we one we have now

I don't usually fight to keep things unless they work. And since I don't see this system working efficiently, I won't be changing my mind anytime soon.

Falco1029 wrote:Exactly, with what we have,m we may have to wait days to get the next part we need for something, because so few people would actually do the trade needed.

Exactly. Just reinforcing our views.

Ok ok you win my friend

And again all i say is backfired. Nobody of you knows exactly what is and what not. I only wanted to prevent frustration but all i gave is flint to the powder keg. Sorry for that.

ezo got the point. What do you think is better:

creating 100 swords in 20 minutes while clicking 500 times and sell them for 200 Gold

or

creating 2 swords in 20 minutes with different production steps and sell them for 200 Gold

Kincent Nolatri wrote:Ok ok you win my friend

Its not about winning, its about wanting the best for this game.

Kincent Nolatri wrote:Ok ok you win my friend

Its not about winning, its about wanting the best for this game.

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:And again all i say is backfired. Nobody of you knows exactly what is and what not. I only wanted to prevent frustration but all i gave is flint to the powder keg. Sorry for that.

ezo got the point. What do you think is better:

creating 100 swords in 20 minutes while clicking 500 times and sell them for 200 Gold

or

creating 2 swords in 20 minutes with different production steps and sell them for 200 Gold

I'm not saying the idea is bad, Cassandra. I'm saying the idea won't work. Like I said before, if we had more people, I think it would work, but right now, that doesn't seem possible.

It's true that exactly what Cassandra said that they didn't want to happen is happening already (And we haven't even seen what it's like yet! We only have a brief description). Perhaps we shouldn't condemn the new system before it's even out? Wait and see what it's like, then post constructive criticism to help improve on it's foundations.

im more scared of the larger map, our population is to small to support a major map enlargement. I fear having to wander around the map tofind anyone i cna to roleplay with.

No one is condemning anything (we've had this discussion about Nilo, haven't we? XD). We're just voicing what strong doubts we have, based on what facts we see. I'm not going to restrain myself from voicing my preliminary predictions, when someone else is making predictions about the actions of others. Condemning it would mean I am refusing to try it. Obviously I'm going to try it.

People... just sit on your mouths and wait, damnit.

im more scared of the larger map, our population is to small to support a major map enlargement. I fear having to wander around the map tofind anyone i cna to roleplay with.

Nay dont worrie I'm sure hot spots will form, and you know just were to find people.. The rest of the map will open up new rp! like rogue incampments or for once A PLACE DERINOAR CAN HIDE OUT WITH OUR BEING FOUND WITH IN A 5 MINS SEARCH OF THE ISLE

Moirear Sian wrote:People... just sit on your mouths and wait, damnit.

Bah! So forceful. Strength is good in situations like this, so maybe I'll quiet myself a little bit. Maybe not, but we'll see.

Condemning it would mean I am refusing to try it

Actually condemning something means "To express strong disapproval" which is what many people are doing. I agree somewhat with your views though Cain and as always value other peoples opinions.


Edit: Damn started to post this before I was told to shut up