Illarion.org

ATTENTION ILLARION
here are some ROUGH ideas that I have thought up. I hope you all like them, and if you dont please do not overly express you anger towards me.

Server Shutdown, reconfigure.

When the "new" server comes, it is a god idea to start a doomsday, or cleansing time roleplay. doing an evac into an underground city, contructed by the people of illarion is a good way to do this. The incorperate TWO things listed below.


Email Account (full version)
This is the idea I wished to express to bror. Each story should have the following, Name of Character,Country of birth of character (explained later) Proposed skills (in an Role Play way, explained later)

Map maker contest.
I know, I know "we're programmers, maps are our business we can do it" However, sending out free copies of the map editor, and there HAS to be one at least in beta2. No rewards, the people have one week to download, make and submit thier maps, the one with the most maginative fantasy/medievil countries/cities following the guidelines expressed at moonsilver.de

Server Revisions
During a TWO WEEK peroid, or longer illarion should/will be offline for the swich and testing, this is the time to incorperate all of the above. A good idea is also a Char wipe, if you want your char back, make a good story for him.

Player stories
Each character has to be born somewhere, and have a certain amount of skills when he comes to this island of other places. For instance, manneligs proposed birthplace is Arcana.

Player Skills:
This is a great way for roleplaying, have the player pick the skills his/her skills that the character will develop faster and more fluidly. To get good amounts of skills, the request has to be reasonable for instance, "so and so was so strong he could kill anyone and he was really cool and he was really big and he had all the weapons" is NOT a good thing.

Grammer:
The story has to make sense, be written in proper roleplay fashion, using middle english, or avoiding modern slang/cuss words. it SHOULD be 5 standard pages long, this is to insure that the story is long enough with enough information for the character.

(if someone would translate this into german, it would be appriecated.)

Heres a list of questions

-Is it 5 pages for each charecter?
-If so, wouldnt that be a little Tediouse if you a Experemental kind of person;Well, Experemental as in a person who likes to Experement with these kind of things, and power mixtures .
-Why does it nessisarily have to be 5 Pages? wouldnt a Creative written story at the users own pace?
-Should it be at least 5 pages? or can you do 2? or as many as you like?

point one- Yes
point two- People usualy dont "experiment" with thier acutal lives.
point three- 5pages should be a minimum, but if you feel that you can produce a suffiencent story with two, be my guest.
point four- can be more, or less if the story is good enough.

Alright, my ideas on the original post:

I strongly disagree with the char wipe. But as compensation, perhaps a char wipe of chars that have been inactive for a month or somthing.

Five pages is very long for a char background. Especially if the person is a bad writer, dislikes writing, young, so he/she has limited vocabulary and patience/skill to write something of that length, or if the person is learning disabled or has some other schooling disability preventing he/she from writing anything long and complex.

I'm not sure i understand the part about the Roleplaying Skills very well, perhaps furthur explanation?

Map Maker contest isn't a bad idea, but i think a week is a bit short to plan and make a good world.

5 Pages are way to long! I mean, there can be ghostwriters, or people who can write the best stories and have no idea of roleplaying. better think about that. And I also have seen people from other countries who don't know english that well and neither german, what shall they do if their roleplaying is good? These ideas aren't very well explained and you should think about everything again.

Maybe the character whipe and all that aren't per se neccesary. A roleplaying etiquette oughta be set up, which doesn't contain any difficult rules. It's to prevent PK'ing, and make use of the common tongue, with as little OOC as possible. Anyway, there then will have to be new mods who will make sure that these rules are followed. Not following these rules for an extended period of time will lead to a warning, three warnings and a character whipe. After a month or so the moderator checks would slowly ease, to give some liberty to the community after they gotten used to the rules.

Oh yes you are the Right one to Propolsal this.


First  Email Account

You have ever tell the your char Names when you Order an account. Then that you declare a birthtown... is this realy important?


Map maker

Bad Idea, i think the programming staff have already a idea how illarion should look in the future.


Server Revisions

This is a beta Version, you testing the whole time


Playerstorys

Sure Everyone have to born somewhere, but this is not realy improtant for the story its only on detail of much other.

Grammer:

??? are you crazy???

Sure there are somplayers who can wirte a 5 page long Story. Annyway this is a rpg an not a Story Contest. What should player do that cant write so good and long storys or that have only a boring childhood on a farm? Should They wirte 5 pages long how they feat the Pigs?

Do you think everybody has to be a Hero, Superstar, or one with a cruel childhood?


Player Skills:
....This is a great way for roleplaying, have the player pick the skills his/her skills that the character will develop faster and more fluidly....

is this the only thin you are intrested in?


Char wipe
Oh yes you can say how good a char wipe is, yes you are playing soooo long.

I played my char for over 6 Month, to become a master Carpentry i needed more than 3 Month,(this isnt stupid, this is real rpg i think). I am collect Oil Lamps, some player have worked very hard for there flutes an ice birds. or the silver that the guilds an orders collect for there bulidings since month and years. Why should we all give up?
If the new client need a char wipe then its  something different, but to make a char wipe without a good reason is only stupid and senseless.
By the way you can only play your char in the new client if you have a story.
Yes when you have nothing you can easily speak about char wipe...
Why should the chars deleted who allready proofed that they can RPG?

I think that the reason most people want a character wipe is to make it "fair" so that everyone starts the same, which I think is completely unnceccesary. Usually this is done in games just because people want a fair chance to compete against other players to get more exp or get stronger to beat other people, etc. which has nothing to do with Illarion at all.
It's good that people who have played longer In Illarion have an advantage of for example more money. That way we don't have to start all over forcing everyone to be peasants below the poverty line and wait a million years before someone becomes rich enough to be a "noble" or buy buildings. The characters that already exist and buildings or other impact that they create will simply be the "history" in Illarion's people and will only add more to the roleplay atmosphere.


Don't worry about 5 pages of storywriting, that'll never happen.

there is an limit too how good you can become so if you train in a 66 months time you may have a chance so i see no use of a char wipe out

again it seems X has marked the spot, now the GAME is now marked with his name?

Server Shutdown, reconfigure---server frozen or maitnience is bad enough.

Email Account (full version)---good job, no one thought of this, nor was something similar already planned right?

Map maker contest. ---if someone has the time, sure, but i believe they ALL READY have it worked on.

Server Revisions --- people dont have lives, when they are unable to get online/ on vacation, they must suffer your consenquence of not playing a game.


Player stories ---as in the Email status, this is thought of. Some Players even declare it on the board. When the new system is worked out, a backround story will be added, but what you should add is up to the Developers, not you.

Player Skills: ---Proffession should be choosen, yes, but anyone else can do just as anything you can. Current system is fine to me. By making some of the things more difficult, perhaps people will put more value on it. Money doent come easy anyway if you do make it that way, so Developers should expect more people hunting monsters (ogres) for money ect... so something of value or ways of getting money has to be done also of course.


Grammer: ---"The story has to make sense, be written in proper roleplay fashion, using middle english, or avoiding modern slang/cuss words. it SHOULD be 5 standard pages long, this is to insure that the story is long enough with enough information for the character. "
O M G!!! L M A O <falls on the floor> LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!
The story has to make sense, good job of figuring that out sherlock!
Written on proper roleplay fasion, using MIDDLE ENGLISH, and avoiding slangs?
Yes, lets all go pick up a MIDDLE ENGLISH book, learn all there is, and also visit your site because otherwise no one ELSE but your <and add in> "kind" will do. Dont forget, POP quiz about it on Thursday, and on Monday, there is a Test. YES KIDS, WE HAVE HOMEWORK!!!

RIDICULOUS!:o

oh, 5 pages long? First off, a you shouldnt and wont know everything about a character. If i wanted to do a report of my characters life, i wait until he dies. Otherwise a BASIC story line would do.

AND REMEMBER KIDS, THIS REPORT IS DUE IN .... 2 WEEKS???!!! L M A O!

If the game isnt what you like, dont play it. Propose a idea/state a problem <say value or this item is too powerful ect...>, not how the game will change under your hand and what  you want to make it "fun" for you.

I'm seeing alot of bashing on the idea now, but isn't it obvious that the Illarion community is like a rotten apple ? I mean, it will take alot of good arguments for prove otherwise, what with all the complaints, the PK'ing, the powergaming and whatnot it's just simply going bad with the community. The economy, despite hard to prove as it hasn't happened yet, is still on a downway spiral. All in all, the game cannot go on like this.

Actually, it can go on like this but it just simply will no longer be fun. The community won't die out or anything, because the PK'ers who don't visit these forums will always stay around, I and all the players who wish to roleplay will sooner or later grow weary and quit. Now, this forum consists of proposals, and we critisize them. I do the same, on smaller things to test them for loopholes or bugs. Regardless, this is an issue that is so blatantly obvious that, as a self-proclaimed sensible Illarion player, I can critisize it all I want, but something still has to change. Instead of bashing this idea, I will support it. I know it cannot be perfect, and there will always be flaws and things you or another may not like, but that's also true in the current Illarion. This idea isn't perfect, but it can and will improve the durability of Illarion.
To say it crudely, when choosing between two wrongs I choose the best, and that would be this suggestion. (It's a saying, I'm not saying either is wrong.)

Some flaws need to be fixed, but the comments from Ishans Schatten and the bashing in the last part of Chyan Guo Messenger's post are useless. Arguing and critisizing these ideas will never, ever solve the problem. I know that it's not perfect, but all people who wish the Illarion community should change for the better should support such an idea. And seeing as this one seems the best, I support this one. Of course I don't agree on some ports, but the fact is that I just want a change for the better, and I hope the developers will get that.

"The community won't die out or anything, because the PK'ers who don't visit these forums will always stay around"

Ney'Tara, ehh. I don't mean to diss you or anything, but have you heard about e-mail application system?
It should solve the "pk" sitiuation, so they should be good riddance.

In Mannelig's suggestion, I see some points that need fixing.

The Char wipe, I agree with Ishans that it would make me feel very sad, if all that I have built for the last year would just vanish, not to mention about players that have been playing a lot longer than I have.

I don't agree with the "player skills", section. From my point of view, this shouldn't happen by this way. In fact, this should be done as it is done nowdays, except that the skill rise should be harder and some racial specialications could be introduced, i.e Dwarves train faster in blacksmithing and mining, but train slower in magics and wood-crafting skills.
Being a Dwarven wizard should not be prevented, but just make harder to be one.
Elves would train faster in distance weapons, and wood-crafting skills
ect.
Only exception in this should be that humans should not gain neither pro's or con's in any skill.

Birthlace?
Why not, but it shouldn't have to be some place as Arcania, for example, if your character has born in Illarion, then he could just type in "Troll's bane", "Mathanon", "Dae'nar" or any other place such as those. .

The length of the story, in my opinion is one of those things that do not matter so much.
As long as the story is longer than something like ten lines, and it shows whatever the developers want it to prove, it should be alright.
But hey, if you want to start a competion with R.A.Salvatore about which one has more pages in his stories, go ahead. :biggrin:

"In Mannelig's suggestion, I see some points that need fixing. "

As do I! But the entire point I'm trying to make is that arguing like this will never, ever end nor will it solve anything. Everyone has a different view on the subject matter, and when all views have been exchanged the topic will die out. Then nothing will have changed.

" the fact is that I just want a change for the better,"


@Ney
i never said i didn't want the game to change to the better, just not too --->"manneligier".

Sure, the parts can change and you disagree to some parts, but please notice most of it was all ready planned in similar if not just close ways, or upcommings somehow, and others like I "bashed" are just plain out >RIDICULOUS<.


and i do see a "bump in the road" somewhere when we hit the "GRAMMER" part and below...
and true, everyone disagrees, arguements are one way to express each others disagreements.
Infact you just made a argument/"statement of disagreement"  to some of my ways/opinions as well.



(Edited by Chyan Guo Messenger at 3:24 am on Aug. 7, 2002)

Quote: from Chyan Guo Messenger on 9:20 pm on Aug. 6, 2002and i do see a "bump in the road" somewhere when we hit the "GRAMMER" part and below...

eh...hehehe...Lloyd once spelled "grammer" like that too....hehehe....

Anyways, I've already said what I wanted to say if anyone was able to make out my earlier post among all the essays here.

1) the ONLY map of any pre planned finished illarion is made by one person NOT on the dev team tha tI know of. If they had any idea, I'm sure we would have known by now.
2) The reasonf or the char wipe is to make it easier for the programmers to switch the servers, and about working so hard....thats where the player skills come in.....some people never see how one idea affects the others
3) the server switch, during the switch the server HAS to be tested anyways, others wise maintinence will be hell for the first week after it, so you can have a few days of complete offliness, or get booted every day due to neglected server.
3) Illarion isent just one island, nor should it be. This is the purpose behind the map contest, and the week time limit is to limit entries AND put on you the same presures the acutal dev team go through for making this game for us.
4) Everytime someone writes a story for his char, its about a paragraph of nonsense unless its someone with talent. If your to young to write a 3-5page story, leave. If you just CAN'T write a 3-5 page story leave, I've written a 10page story in less then an hour spell checked and posted it on another board, so IT can be done.
5) Playerskills are to diversify as well as suplements the illarion comunity. Playerskills shouldent be high but just high enough to gain an advantage, for instance
Player X gets 5letters of blacksmithing, playerZ gets 5 letters of lumberjacking, thus Player X can smith better then player Z at the start, while playerZ can cut trees better then playerX.
Combat skills should be avoided, or low, really low.

I think you can see as well as a bat with a hangover, what time base is illarion MIDDLEAGES/FANTASY, and its an RPG what are you trying to say?, its an RPG but its got no base on anything?, let me take a page out of a game designers book
"Everything in a game has to based on something done before, otherwise its authinticity is questionable and the game itself will not make sense to the user" I'm beggining to think you ARE as stupid as your board account name sounds...

1) really? I hope they have a life!  your words were nonsense, if the had any concrete evidence logicly theyw ould let SOMEONE know and it would leak sooner or later.
2) yes thats the GOAL but its yet to be completed, and the server HAS to checked to make sure it runs in anycase.
3) I dunno about you, but I won't like having to roleplay getting booted off in the middle of a conversation of importance, woud you? not to mention to programmers will get agitated if they have to spend alot of time tweaking the server to work properly.
4) is third grade tests releventt ot his post? also, I'm not saying that 5 pages can't be full of nonsense, just if someone writes it they will relaise it IS nonsense of 5 pages before they make a jackass outa themselves.
"AT THE END THE END THEY WILL DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR THIER GAME!"
really, then why in blue hell do they have a GFX board and a Proposel board, if they are going to do everything by themselves?

sorry to tell you a bat can see, but in the dark or in cave it chooses to use ultra-sonic to locate objects and paths. so far a flying rat has been smarter than your overly evolved monkey brain if you must know.
This is a forum account, not my game account. Otherwise it makes since i be deleted wouldnt you think, after it requires a NAME.
Game is based on mid-evil time, (items, looks, buildings, resourses avalible) and doesnt include its OLD LANGUAGE! Dont try to confuse others as you all ready confuse yourself.
as for your other comments.

1)" really? I hope they have a life!  your words were nonsense, if the had any concrete evidence logicly theyw ould let SOMEONE know and it would leak sooner or later. "

Gad you got it straight, or i think you did. They have studies, a job, and a LIFE. My words are non-sence because... you dont agree? or is your 3rd language really hard to understand?
Sherlock, we know you can make up lots of "evidence", mind showing us the pollution report for illarion again?

2) "yes thats the GOAL but its yet to be completed, and the server HAS to checked to make sure it runs in anycase."

and again, since you know the goal so well, its their choise to see if they must erase the characters... but if its not their goal, then they dont need to bother with it.


3) "I dunno about you, but I won't like having to roleplay getting booted off in the middle of a conversation of importance, woud you? not to mention to programmers will get agitated if they have to spend alot of time tweaking the server to work properly. "

I "dunno" about you, but there  is a messenger on this forum, and its a GAME, important or not you will have to wait, when it is back on im sure you have enough brains to continue where you left off if its so important. And i "woud"nt like it either, but nor do i CARE. Its call theres another day, and its only a GAME, not as important as real life. Email, boards, messenger will due the rest. As for testing, im so also that they were TOO STUPID to think of that. There will be obviously runs and things before we get on, and during. Dont be surprised or complaining if something does pop up ANYWAY.  YOU WILL LIVE WITHOUT THE GAME AND THEY WILL LIVE EVEN IF AGITATED!


4) is third grade tests releventt ot his post? also, I'm not saying that 5 pages can't be full of nonsense, just if someone writes it they will relaise it IS nonsense of 5 pages before they make a jackass outa themselves.

figure of speach, and sarcastic remarks. Goes along with the 5 page report we give on our MAKE BELIEF characters anyway. So one cant make a dumb donkey out of themselve with a 5 page story? everyone must be stupid because they dont proof read right? im guessing all those dumb people who cant speak english well are stamped rejected as well? let me make it clear to you, IT DOESNT TAKE A FREAK'EN ENGLISH REPORT ON YOUR CHARACTER TO PLAY A GAME, AND LIKE SOMEONE ALREADY SAID, 5 PAGES WONT EVEN PASS, so trash your 5 page theorys.... where do you get that 5 page, illarion pollution of OKs from anyways? Chimpanzees!?



"AT THE END THE END THEY WILL DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR THIER GAME!"
really, then why in blue hell do they have a GFX board and a Proposel board, if they are going to do everything by themselves?


GFX board, if you have some suggestions and tools or even questions (though might me more tech then graphics) you may suggest or introduce the IDEA, not scripts to REWRITE ILLARION TO YOUR GAME.
Proposel board, again, intoduce new ideas or ways as well, but at the end, they do do everything themselves, just because you put i want green apples on the board doesnt mean they will do that! We (those who propose,suggest ect...)are only providing some of the input into this game. Resourses such as most of the capital (other than donations from memebers)and supplies and the final output is done by them, NOT YOU!  They certainly can do this without us, put it be a lot slower ect... we are here to help and post any problems or ideas on the board. There is nothing about we are here to STUDY OLD ENGLISH and WRITE CHARACTERS LIFE STORY on the board, by email ect.

Like i said, some of the things you mentioned, a similar if not very close or close enough is all ready comming. Background story, length, how its written is up to them anyway, and they wont be doing it your way anytime soon.
Oh, the airlines have a special offer, a free trip to hell for only $159.99... but its one way, but im sure a big and smart person like you need a vacation. Oh! -dont forget to mail us the real color of hell.

sorry, dont mean to make you go "Batty", but im sure the wheel screeches are not as bad as mine so keep holding that acceleration pedal.


(Edited by Chyan Guo Messenger at 7:52 am on Aug. 7, 2002)

Hello,

now i have to speak up! I´m really tired that in every topic someone starts I step over some agressive and annoying post of either you Chyan Guo or you Mannelig. I´m not a native english speaking or writing person and it costs a lot of time to me translating your posts and filter out what is a good proposal/opion or just belongs to your quarell.
I think you both have more or lesser good ideas that are worth to be read, but each one of you seems to try beating each other in cleverness.
Aren´t you able to burry the hatchet and make it much easier for me and many other people to keep the joy of just reading good topics without stepping all the time over your personal differencies?
Perhaps you should start your own Mannelig vs. Chyan Guo topic were you would be able to discuss your opinions without bothering other players...

At least this is just my opinion but why don´t you spend all this energy you are wasting here in performing some good RP?

Greetings,

Quote: from Cuderon on 2:28 am on Aug. 7, 2002

Perhaps you should start your own Mannelig vs. Chyan Guo topic were you would be able to discuss your opinions without bothering other players...

This is the BEST proposal... EVER...!

Or wait, even better... a topic on some OTHER message board so that we wouldn't even have to see it! No, wait, wait...

Argue with each other on icq or aim or something, that way you can call each other names in real time!

Or you could just get it over with and get married already...

please you two, just download ICQ and argue there, you could read the posts, and then you could send messages to each with the topic it's regarding on top, that way you both know what you're arguing about and we don't have to see it

I have the messenger on this board, so do you.

sorry, no AIM or ICQ or DCR-ID<--- well...... one for another purpose.

To the Tempermental Man and the Opinionist!!!


I am sooo sick and tired of your bickering at each other!  Please just take Cuderon's advice and make your own thread with which you can argue.  

@ Mannelig:  I know, Mannelig, that whenever you post, Chyan Guo...THATS GUO...is always there to disagree.


@ Chyan Guo:  I also know, Chyan Guo, that whenever you post, Mannelig...THATS MANNELIG (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH GOOGOO)...is always there to disagree.

Now please take this advice into heart, mind, or wherever you generate your emotions:
MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD AND BICKER THERE SO WE DON'T HAVE TO SEE IT.

Best regards if possible,
Cain Freemont

Shut it up already!
I am really tired of you two arguing about every damn thing possible!
Mcfly...

Kill the stupid post!

@ Caranthir the Great
I understand how you feel...but children never learn.


@Mannileg and Chyan Guo
Grow up!

Uhmmmm, just one question:


HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD EVER READ A 5 PAGES STORY????

ok wonder peeps, I have written in 14font two and 1/2 pages already, and thats just the beggining.

5 pages is excessive.

Most people are not authors.  Just becaue you're an RPer doesn't make you a writer, and vice versa.

yes, I could write a 5 page, or 50 page, paper about my char, but there is no way I'm going to do it.  Ask for a page or a few paragraphs, sure no problem.

Almost anyone should be able to do a few paragraphcs.

No one should be expected to do 5 pages, unless it is a literary contest, of course.

i am a little confused y u want 5 pages???. wat there should be is wen u create your char, there should be a dropdown of skills to pich, u can get say, 5. u prigres fatest in the first and so on. the firsdt selection is your best, sencond is second best, so on n so forth. but all 5 are raised from all other skills. u couls have for ex:#1 smithing,#mage#3combat#4merchent/trading#5fishing
in other games also, to get your stats there is a pesonality test for each race, then the test would determine how to destribute your base stats. the test wouldent be too long, maybe 10 questions. the GM's DO have to make a base for each race and for each different possible combo of questions. but then you get like 10 additional stat points for u to put in oyuself encase u dont get exactly wat u want. o ya, if there r diff town to start from, that should be a vareable also

o ya, i am trying to start a guild, if ne1 waNTS TO JOIN, send me amessage on icq, i prefere u dont send it to my e-mail, i wont get it, i have a filter that filters almost nething.u can try AIM also.