Heavy Book

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Post by **Rand Kalhan Al'Vega** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:52 am

I was sitting in the shop and I set down my magic book, Paths To Magic, and I wasn't able to lift it again. please help me if you can this book cost a lot of gold

Lysu Davanum · Post by **Lysu Davanum** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:41 am

I have the same problem. Are books heavy heavy heavy now or something? I mean, I could not even WALK with a book on my belt.

-Lysu Davanum-

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:57 am

Sounds like they may have changed it so book are heavy, as we have had problems with people taking hundred of boks from the library and messing around with them. Either that or it's a major bug.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:31 am

AFAIK this is intended, but I will have a look.

Martin

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Post by **Rand Kalhan Al'Vega** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:59 pm

glad you'll have a look.. my magic book cost me lots...

PO of Rand Kalhan AL'Vega

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:31 pm

Yes i wouldnt mind this beingt changed either, since i was tryign to buy it from him

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:52 pm

Falco,

Please, stop this. Since you've arrived, all you've talked about is getting the items to become a mage. The system is supposed to be set up so that it takes time and roleplaying to become one, but somebody decided to circumvent all the roleplaying and just hand everything to you.

I've had my character for a year, and as you know, he still doesn't have all the runes. I've known yet others who have gone much longer with only a handful of runes.

The system is not difficult, and if you go out of your way to crack it, you make it much too simple. I tried roleplaying you through the process, but you hadn't the patience. Oh well.

In any case, the board doesn't need any more of this nonsense. Please keep all in-game information in-game or in PMs with the GMs if it's a technical problem.

--Mitch

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:19 am

Moskher:

You have no idea what the hell you are talking about, and have insulted me gravely. Anyone who says someone handed me everything is a complete and utter moron, full of ignorance and should really get their facts straight. After beiing bitched at by several people saying i shouldnt just be asking everyone about it, i decided that maybe they're right. I talked with several of my friends, and a few of them gave me parts of the first thing you need to become one. After that, I talked to several different people on aquiring what i needed to activate the runes. After a fe wproblems, I worked through it and figured it out. After that, i studied for hours at a time to figure out some of the things required after activation of the runes, along with a little hlep from a few friends when i became confused. After this, I struggled trying to figure out why it still wasn't working, and eventually was helped. I then got what things i could get myself and a couple friends helped me get a few others, and i went through and learned some runes. I know about 9 now, with a total of 3 spells. This was a long process, taking me extended periods of rping. The trade for some of the items wrang me dry.

Also, I don't know what you mean about patience. Our characters talked for a while, and I agreed to wait until you were ready to teach. After a while I found you teaching someone else, and decided I would be better off by myself. I was dissapointed in thsi and was really looking forward to having a teacher, knowing that the process is much more enriching that way, but I couldn't. I still wish to get my character a teacher, and would gladly learn the rest that way, but if not, I am on my own, and I see nothing wrong with that post, though i did edit it to be less "offending".

Again, anyone else who wishes to criuticize me, don't. I may have learned the path to magic a little quicker than most, but that was due to my rp skills and helpful friends, who I'll admit I couldn't have done it without. This overall process has taken me about a month or two, though I am not exactly sure.

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:27 am

two things...

You both have valid points... Falco, you are overreacting you seem to have gotten the 9 runes that you did in a fairly short period

Moskher, back off a bit.. we both know how frustrating it is to try to learn and most of the people trying to teach seem to have a bucket load of reasons why someone who knows nothing of magic is not aloud to learn anything.

Secondly... we are getting off the point. if you two want to argue you can make a new thread or do it ingame

PO of Rand Kalhan Al'Vega

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:39 am

I got them that fast because I have always been a good rper and have had some helpful friends. I did the work mostly myself though.

And also sorry for getting offtopic, but really, there isn't much more we can put on the heavy boo ktopic, if a GM sees this thread they need only look at the first post to know the problem. Even if the rest of the thread is spam it wouldnt matter.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:14 am

falco1029 wrote: Also, I don't know what you mean about patience. Our characters talked for a while, and I agreed to wait until you were ready to teach. After a while I found you teaching someone else, and decided I would be better off by myself. I was dissapointed in thsi and was really looking forward to having a teacher, knowing that the process is much more enriching that way, but I couldn't. I still wish to get my character a teacher, and would gladly learn the rest that way, but if not, I am on my own, and I see nothing wrong with that post, though i did edit it to be less "offending".

Actually, no. The above is a lie. First of all, you saw my character being trained by Elminister, not vice versa. (Notice that I, the player, know how the rune system works, but that does not mean that my character understands it fully.) Second of all, you wrote a post in the rpg forum the day after I talked to you, before you saw me with Elminister, talking about how you were going it alone.

Now that that is dissected, I would be interested to know if by "friends" you mean in-character friends of your character or ooc friends of you, merely for the sake of clarity.

Also, I would like you to explain to me how someone who has been around as long as you could have realistically roleplayed their way into the expensive items needed to learn magic and how others could realistically roleplay giving up said expensive items to someone. If by "friends" you meant in-character friends, explain how one could have found such a close bond in such a short time as to have them selflessly give as above. (I mean, sure. I've roleplayed becoming fast friends with characters that have a lot in common with my character, but that doesn't mean I'm handing over my riches. I think twice before borrowing money to my real life friends, even, and I've known them for years.)

Rand,

Yes. This is off-topic, but this is a problem that has been repeatedly acted upon by the GMs, and yet he refuses to stop talking about this stuff on the boards. It's not that I'm angry at the guy, but he was already aware that this is considered a problem here.

Also, I'd like to say that there should be that bucketload of reasons. I've been difficult on every single person who has come to Moskher and asked to be taught, and that is the way that it should be. It can also be said that every person who's come to Moskher asking to be taught ended up not being Moskher's student because of how difficult Moskher can be. There are reasons for this, and I think that they should be instituted much more often:

No student gets the answers to the riddles. If it is suspected that they cheated and went to someone else, they are turned away.
All students must do their own work. My character's ability to meditate says nothing about the student's.
All students are given a warning about misusing what is taught them.
All students must talk about magical theory. (that means it's not just a buying and skill game, I add a level of roleplay to it.)

Anyhow, for the above reasons, every student has walked away, but that's a good thing. I've seen other people, such PO Elminister, who are just as strict that everything be rped right, and he has been successful in teaching magic.

In any case, knowing how things are done yourself only goes so far. Your character is actually doing much more work than you are while playing him, and to go through the process without interaction is robbing yourself and also the logical ability for other players to rp. If we are to say that it is as easy as the system is, then why aren't we all shooting fireballs out of our rears right now in real life? That is why it is important for one to be patient and learn the things in-game correctly through rp.

That's also why I would say that the system isn't difficult. It's user-friendly, but expensive.
--Mitch

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:19 pm

Actually, no. The above is a lie. First of all, you saw my character being trained by Elminister, not vice versa. (Notice that I, the player, know how the rune system works, but that does not mean that my character understands it fully.) Second of all, you wrote a post in the rpg forum the day after I talked to you, before you saw me with Elminister, talking about how you were going it alone.

Now that that is dissected, I would be interested to know if by "friends" you mean in-character friends of your character or ooc friends of you, merely for the sake of clarity.

Also, I would like you to explain to me how someone who has been around as long as you could have realistically roleplayed their way into the expensive items needed to learn magic and how others could realistically roleplay giving up said expensive items to someone. If by "friends" you meant in-character friends, explain how one could have found such a close bond in such a short time as to have them selflessly give as above. (I mean, sure. I've roleplayed becoming fast friends with characters that have a lot in common with my character, but that doesn't mean I'm handing over my riches. I think twice before borrowing money to my real life friends, even, and I've known them for years.)

Hmm, well excuse my character for misunderstanding, I actually had him doing several bits of spying to makle sure, and from what it seemed moskher was teaching him, sorry. Secondly, the post I wrote was basically saying I knew what I needed and thanks for nothing from those people, it said nothing about me actually trying to go alone. I was actually patiently waiting until my character misunderstood what you were doing, and then I figured I didn't want to wait for another teacher who actually seemed like they'd teach me would roll along.

I of course mean In character friends, for no one I know OOC plays Illarion. In was able to roleplay so well because I usied to play Dungeons and dragons, and have gotten very good at roleplaying through that, also with minor help from a couple other games. As for the expensive items, I got the ones required to activate the runes from two seperate friends, the first one because I agreed for the first few of them, I would show him how to summon the gaurdians once I got it right. The other ones my other friend made for me, with me supplying most of the material for it (and i thank both of you). As for the items to actually learn the runes, I studied the book for a long time, and figured most of them out. I got confused with a couple and a few friends helped Ules figure out what the offerings were, not by telling, by giving some extra hints. As for aquiring them, I got most myself, and the cheaper ones I didn't have access to my friends just gave to me because it's a case of "no skin off my nose" (for all of you who don't know american terms like that, it means well I may as well since it doesn't really hurt me at all). I stil ldon't know any runes that require rare or expensive sacrifices (except for one which i did buy for a fair price), and will collect them when I can.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:40 pm

Ok. I guess I can agree that the case isn't as bad as I thought it is, and in fact, going over the facts I would say that the blame lies in the hands of other people more than you, falco, at least as far as the ingame stuff. Nonetheless, be careful what you post on the message board.

The problem is that the system does not work when the information is given so freely. The idea of the developers in implementing the system was to make it difficult enough that a bond could develop between student and master, while making it user friendly enough so that it could be understood and remembered.

Before, this was done by magic books that allowed the master to directly pass a small amount of his knowledge on to the student. The problem with this was that if the magic books were too common (ie. dropped by monsters. sold at the general store. on the library shelves, etc..) the entire system lost it's purpose because magic would be too commonplace. If the books were too rare (ie. obtained in quests), it becomes a system where only the rich know magic.

So, instead, a system was implemented that made magic less reliant on a single item and we come across the system that is in place today. Now, you can see why we are sensitive about this information being spread too easily in-game (this is a logical inconsistency, because although magic has it's limits as implemented, magic in fantasy is almost limitless. one would worry about even giving their friend limitless power.) or at all on the boards. The balance of the system was taken out of the hands of the GMs and put into the hands of the players.

A new problem emerges in that many of the cheaper items result in their being useless, as there are only so many spells. As a result, it again becomes that only the rich are of any value in magic. As to the solution, I can say for a fact that Martin was looking for proposals of new spells just recently. Someday the magic system may just balance itself out, but not without hard work from the players and the developers.

--Mitch

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Post by **Rand Kalhan Al'Vega** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:29 pm

Moskher says:
Also, I'd like to say that there should be that bucketload of reasons. I've been difficult on every single person who has come to Moskher and asked to be taught, and that is the way that it should be. It can also be said that every person who's come to Moskher asking to be taught ended up not being Moskher's student because of how difficult Moskher can be. There are reasons for this, and I think that they should be instituted much more often:

No student gets the answers to the riddles. If it is suspected that they cheated and went to someone else, they are turned away.

All students must do their own work. My character's ability to meditate says nothing about the student's.

All students are given a warning about misusing what is taught them.

All students must talk about magical theory. (that means it's not just a buying and skill game, I add a level of roleplay to it.)

These are very good reasons to turn away a student. I was thinking more on the lines of when I was a newbie, I was turned away from magic studies because I didn't whisper.. and such things like that. I learned a lesson yes, but once I learned all the lessons there were no more teachers.

Moskher Heszche · Post by **Moskher Heszche** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:57 pm

Oh, generally it is not that Moskher turns them away. Generally it is the case that they leave because there is people who teach magic as though it could be taught at a McDonald's drivethru, and I know that these people exist and I have witnessed it personally. It isn't so hard to learn magic once you know who one of these people are, but at the end of the day, your roleplaying opportunities were robbed by them.

You may say it's difficult to learn, but I know of at least three people who do this very thing, running the character from rune to rune and doing all the work and giving all the items for the character. It's only a matter of knowing who does this. I'm glad that there seems to be plenty of players who don't know these people.

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:22 pm

darn... now you won't say their names

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:52 pm

Again, My character would have been glad to learn from Moskher, and still would, he just assumes that Moskher took a different student. I am sure my character would still learn from Moskher if given a chance.

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Post by **Rand Kalhan Al'Vega** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:38 am

Now that he has said what his character is feeling. there is still the question... is it now impossible to buy and sell and trade 'Path to Magic' Books?

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:21 pm

I am pretty sure that you can through bags, since you dont actually drop the book. (put the book in a bag, then drop the bag)

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:15 pm

Um verständlich zu sein, verbleib ich im Deutschen:

Insofern kein anderer Weg besteht Druide zu werden, ist es durch dieses hier angesprochene Problem unmöglich gemacht worden. Denn auch das Lehrbuch der Druien ist zu schwer geworden.

Es ist unmöglich dieses ins Inventar (Gürtel, Tasche etc.) zu ziehen. Dies ist aber zwingend erforderlich (da das Buch wie ein Rohstoff verbraucht wird) um eine Druiden-Rune zu lernen.

AlaineMilan · Post by **AlaineMilan** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:31 pm

Jemand sagte zu mir das man das Buch vom Depot aus in eine Tasche machen kann um es dann zu transportieren und/oder weiter zu geben. Wurde das denn mal ausprobiert?

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:09 pm

Nein, das geht nicht.... habs ausprobiert.

Aryllis · Post by **Aryllis** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:20 pm

Das Druidenbuch ist zu transportieren. Ich gab Lennier erst gestern welche.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:28 pm

Nicht das, das grüne!

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:39 pm

Ok I just used an online translator to try to understand what you guys just said, but I think im off, since tenses and certain things are different in both langauges. What it seems they just said was they tried using a bag to transport a druid book to someone else but it didn't work? Is this correct? If so, then dang... i hope it gets fixed

AlaineMilan · Post by **AlaineMilan** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:06 am

yes thats right falco1029

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Post by **Rand Kalhan Al'Vega** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:07 am

bag theory doesn't work... tried it

PO of Rand

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:14 am

OK, I understand the problem, some books that have to carried around for teaching purposes are too heavy and can´t be picked up, right?

Can you name all those books (exact title) so I can have a look at it?

Rand Kalhan Al'Vega · Post by **Rand Kalhan Al'Vega** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:17 am

Mine was a Magic book called Path to Magic. I hope I can get it back... it was spendy

EDIT: Wink Wink

PO of Rand Kalhan Al'Vega

falco1029 · Post by **falco1029** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:57 am

Yeah i had that book too. well i was trading for it then it got stuck and disapeared, but i still had to pay, my money disapeared too (upon getting payed back a screen wipe). And also any book i have seen is too heavy to pick up. Someone was carryigna round one and put it on the floor and couldnt get it, i think it was about mining or materials...