Roleplay or Persona Play?

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:50 am

This is just a general observation that I have made as of late. I decided to raise the topic here, as opposed to watching the debate appear in flickers across various other boards, by various other users.

First, a definition of both.

Roleplay, as we all know is the activity of assuming the role of a character and then behaving as this character would, from traits to trades and so forth.

Persona play, while argueably a form of roleplay, sadly is not. Persona play, however is the activity of playing yourself , albeit behaving in a slightly skewed way. Most importantly, when a person "persona plays" they roleplay with their own interests at heart, to meet their own aims, etc.

I am afraid that as of late, quite honestly, Persona play permeates this game. It is quite clear to see evidence of this in the game. Log on at anytime and it's clear to see people playing for their own desires...not the desires of their character. From excessive training of a character, in order to defeat an enemy made on the board, to suddenly having an issue with somebody in-game, due to an OOC dispute.

This blatant misunderstanding of one of the basic concepts of roleplay must have light shed on it and that is the sole reason I started this topic.

Let the debate roll on...

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:03 am

Completely agreed.

Domitrio · Post by **Domitrio** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

I'm sure each of us are guilty of at least a little Persona Play, but I can say for myself, even though I do keep my ideas in mind.. it's hard not to, I play my character(S) with their own lives at heart. My different characters have totally different paths to walk, and I believe I'm going about getting them to the places they plan on being the best way I know how.

Zare · Post by **Zare** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:44 am

I agree with you, Brendan. I feel that many people here roleplayer their character has if it was themself

My character Zare was almost a replica of me, thats why I abandoned him, and started a new one, completely different.

Domitrio · Post by **Domitrio** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:48 am

I play, as I said, a few characters. Some of which are theives, or murderers. But Dom and I share quite a few traits, although he a womanizer and a drunk most of the time. I liked to base each of my characters on a personality type, and he was mine.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:50 am

Domitrio wrote:I play, as I said, a few characters. Some of which are theives, or murderers. But Dom and I share quite a few traits, although he a womanizer and a drunk most of the time. I liked to base each of my characters on a personality type, and he was mine.

Hah.

Domitrio · Post by **Domitrio** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:52 am

Kasume.. don't go off topic with slander. Not here anyway, so what do you think about this?

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:55 am

Domitrio wrote:Kasume.. don't go off topic with slander. Not here anyway, so what do you think about this?

That's right. Run away from the truth.

Domitrio · Post by **Domitrio** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:00 am

Is there anything I can do about Kasume trying to start a flame war with me on every board...? I won't give into it, and I'll leave your thread Brendan, sorry I brought the off topic attention to it. But as for the topic itself, I think that is a serious problem that should be dealt with...... but how?

Ruul Tolfud · Post by **Ruul Tolfud** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:27 am

Persona play, is rampant in Illarion at this time. It seems have gotten worse as time goes on. I do not know of a way to fix this problem but I agree that it should be fixed.

There is also another thing that comes to mind and since this is about roleplay of sorts. The people that play this game for personal "pleasure" it shouldnt be to hard to figure out what I mean. I do not like this game degenerating into things like that, I have seen to much of that in so many other games. Tibia for example. Just my two cents

Domitrio · Post by **Domitrio** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:32 am

Well yeah.. that is a bit degrading, but there's nothing against it per say... and think about it, since we're talking about Role play... people were... doing that in those times. If we're talking abutt he same thing that is.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:35 am

There is also another thing that comes to mind and since this is about roleplay of sorts. The people that play this game for personal "pleasure" it shouldnt be to hard to figure out what I mean.

No, I don't know what you mean.

Delakaniam · Post by **Delakaniam** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:44 am

I've definitly thought of this before as well, wondering how much of any character met is actually the character or a lot more the person behind him/her.

Sometimes, perhaps it seems easier to draw character from yourself as it is from the start. You've lived with yourself, cried with yourself, laughed with yourself, been through heaven and hell with yourself..... You could probably state you know yourself pretty darn well by now, eh?

On the other hand, creating a truly "new" character requires, well..... thinking first of, let's say, a broad category of personality he is. Friendly, cranky, reserved, intelligent, chipper, senile, brilliant but terribly shy, dumb as dirt, a pain to society, ditzy, charming, god to himself, tree-hugger, bunny-killer,..... And etc. Afterwards, the combinations of many of these, followed by tweaks here and there and in all the corners. Creating a new character is not as thought-through for many as it might should be.

"How to carve an elephant out of marble: 1) Take a very large slab of marble. 2) Hack away anything that doesn't look like an elephant."

And if you still continue to think this character through, well... you soon find everything is connected with everything else. This can't be since that is already set down in the certain way.

And if any get this far, the subconscious soon starts sliding up from the background saying..... "You poor thing you... why don't we.... just create the character...... and let it go from there?"

*sigh*. Another one to add for the list of "Persona play."

There's also quite often a case of putting on for appearance, so to speak. These other players, they'll probably never meet you in a millenia. But.... most of us don't want to look like really mean, or inconsiderate, or rude people, whatever characteristic it may be we avoid for ourselves in RL. So.... we end up playing how we would act in person, because we've spent a longer while "refining" that.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:04 am

Agreed completely Brenden.

NOTE: A few of you who already posted are on my "donkey who makes fun of others with big ears and four legs" list.

If this point were contrary to the truth, how does one explain the 80%+ of the English speaking players in this game who can fight like knights? Or those who take up mulitiple, oxymoronic professions? Or who collect and sell stuff according to the technicalities of the game?

This isn't a MUD people. It's a roleplaying game. Player greed is legal on MUDs, and not on RPGs.

Edit: Also agreed, Delakaniam. The thing is, it isn't difficult to create a completely different character, who is unlike yourself in RL. Some players only make it that way because they prefer to secretly call themselves "heros" even if only a collection of pixels is doing it for them.

It's simulated pleasure. And that sucks.

So, as I mentioned before, treat it like a play. Even before you create a character, ask yourself: does Illarion need another one of my kind? Can my character make the game interesting somehow?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:13 am

Bloodhearte wrote:Agreed completely Brenden.

NOTE: A few of you who already posted are on my "donkey who makes fun of others with big ears and four legs" list.

If this point were contrary to the truth, how does one explain the 80%+ of the English speaking players in this game who can fight like knights? Or those who take up mulitiple, oxymoronic professions? Or who collect and sell stuff according to the technicalities of the game?

This isn't a MUD people. It's a roleplaying game. Player greed is legal on MUDs, and not on RPGs.

How do you know 80%+ Deustch speaking people are not knights? I don't beleive I've met one who cannot fight decently. How do you know their character isn't greedy? Why do you assume you know anything about their character? The only character you can really know is your own. They have insight into their character's personality, past, and experiences that you cannot know because you are not them, simply put.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:23 am

Gro'bul wrote:
Bloodhearte wrote:Agreed completely Brenden.

NOTE: A few of you who already posted are on my "donkey who makes fun of others with big ears and four legs" list.

If this point were contrary to the truth, how does one explain the 80%+ of the English speaking players in this game who can fight like knights? Or those who take up mulitiple, oxymoronic professions? Or who collect and sell stuff according to the technicalities of the game?

This isn't a MUD people. It's a roleplaying game. Player greed is legal on MUDs, and not on RPGs.
How do you know 80%+ Deustch speaking people are not knights? I don't beleive I've met one who cannot fight decently. How do you know their character isn't greedy? Why do you assume you know anything about their character? The only character you can really know is your own. They have insight into their character's personality, past, and experiences that you cannot know because you are not them, simply put.

Tee damn hee. I think it's a fairly good assumption Gro'bul. Fighting isn't necessarily the only problem though, at least when I see the German speaking players controlling their characters, they're sitting around a campfire. Or in the tavern, socializing. Or if they're character is a criminal, they go out and hide in the forest and carry out clever plots (Deirdre being a good example) rather than try to walk into town countless times wearing the good ol 'black cloaks.'

But with the English speaking players (American at least) with their characters, they'll do the following:

1.) Possibly deliver a story around a campfire, involving their past which is some cliche "evil fought me" junk.
2.) Ignore me, and continue to hack up pigs, cook, raise skills.
3.) Talk to me in an enormous amount of OOC.
4.) Brag about how they mastered a skill even though the character is still a few weeks new.

And those, are my observations.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:34 am

I think you should just stop where you're at Bloodhearte.

You're speaking on against too many people.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:41 am

So? Maybe a lot of players need a second thought about their uninteresting, cliche, unneeded characters.

(I certainly hope somebody doesn't reply with "not ALL English speaking players," as that states the obvious, and doesn't get anybody anywhere)

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:45 am

Maybe their character doesn't like your character, or your race. Personally I don't think I see enough prejudice between races. Well criminals are often poor, uneducated, and unexperienced with tactics. Maybe you just don't play with a very diverse crowd because you play a certain time all the time? I don't know what you hope to acheive by complaining about it, most of these people are probobly unwilling to think their roleplay is wrong, inadequate, or doesn't make any sense. I guess you would call that "player ego". I think that is the real problem we are getting at here.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:52 am

The problem is this game is so heavily relying on fighting, and I suppose back in the dark ages you needed to know how to defend yourself because less civilized folk would come and simply crush you. So you cannot blame people for knowing how to fight. Also, most Germans do know how to fight, the thing is they have been around for a long while so their fighting skill is already set pretty high, they do not need to prove their own strength any longer.
As for multiple skills, I agree. You shouldn't be able to master everyskill, but then again why not this is a fantasy game?
If you spend your whole time on merchanting skills like Jhon Sivan and none on fighting then I don't have a problem with it.
But yeah, the most annoying person to roleplay with is the completely unoriginal: Knight, hero complex, does everything good, completely predictable, super strong, cliche background story about how their families were killed by raiding orcs or something but never develops it further.
Funnest people to roleplay with are people like Darlok who are clever, funny and change the history of illarion.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 5:53 am

Maybe people didn't like my character. Some thought he was overly dramatic, for example. But at least I tried to be honest about not getting OOC mixed into IC.

I only complain to address the problems, although it could be the equivalent of communicating with a sack of door knobs.

I'm sure it's the player ego that's the problem, you're right about that.

I just wish people could stop putting so much darn care and pleasure into a combination of colorful, lighted dots on a computer screen and keep their cool and not freak about about losing a conflict, getting items destroyed, not getting enough skill, etc.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:04 am

Some thought he was overly dramatic, for example

Naaa, there is no such thing as overly dramatic, just unecessary drama. Now, You were one of my favorite chars, and taught me how to rp through your actions and such. I use to focus a bunch of fighting skill, when val would be slain, I would try and get him back up. Now, I only fight mostly when needed, unless I am bored then I kill a few things but not a constant fightorama

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:15 am

Grobul wrote:Maybe their character doesn't like your character, or your race. Personally I don't think I see enough prejudice between races.

Your right....I actually do see too less people having a prejudice against for example orcs. They treat them like they are not the greedy stinking blogheads they really are. And if I were an orc, and I would just see an elf or an halfling, I would go all out on them, call them things like: "Yoo lick flowers treehugger!". Now that is prejudice

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:24 am

Personally, I don't like to play as orcs. When I played one a while back, all I could think of for activity was murder and pillaging. But hell, I could've went to Tibia for that.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:27 am

*Notes another one who thinks that orcs only plunder and pillage and charge*

Maybe you just lack the creativity to play orcs. If I look around some time, I see some good played orcs out there. Look at them for inspiration

(And people, play arrogant, bitchy chars sometime. They can be so good and fun to roleplay with)

Thurik · Post by **Thurik** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:30 am

Sometimes I feel like I act too much of a dwarf.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:39 am

Must...resist...urge...to...point...out...roleplay...I...don't...agree...with...and...risk...being...called...opinionated...by...internet...sprogs...who've...seen...too...much...M.A.S.H...

Ah what the hell.

The orcs I've seen usually wander Trollsbane as friendly as humans, passing by without question. Sure, the players roleplay them fine, but...one who wants to take that character seriously and have fun with it will have a tough time.

They can't make elaborate plots, because they have the intelligence of a six year old.

They can't be discreet, because they're dummies.

They can't be friendly, because they're possibly supposed to be hostile dummies.

They can't be complex, because they're entire race consists of dummies.

And did I mention they're dummies?

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:44 am

I agree bloodhearte. The orcs I see act stupid only for "play" and not when it affects something really...like planning as you said. They wont act dumb, but on a normal day they will.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:48 am

They say "Yub" and "Nub." When they don't even sound like "Yes" and "No."

Yet they can figure out that you're lying without you even getting a chance to use emotes for face expressions. That tells me some OOC is being implemented.

You can never trick an orc that can hardly speak correctly. Sort of sick of it.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sat Aug 07, 2004 7:00 am

and they "type" like jar jar binks