NPC in tavern

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:06 am

I propose putting a npc in the tavern that sells wine, beer, and maybe other beverages. This would probably increase the traffic in the, now most of the time, empty tavern.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:24 am

I Agree...

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:41 am

Tialdin better have to pay him!

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:44 am

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:I Agree...

That means more than just the fact she agrees... If I'm not mistaken.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:44 am

Yes, an NPC in the tavern would be VERY good!!!!

Also, make the others stationary again, I can't tell you how mad they make me .. I'm trying to give him money and he walks away?!

Or just make it so that when they are shift-clicked on they remain stationary till it is released

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:57 am

The npc would have to move only left and right, and be accesable over the table tops.

Sam · Post by **Sam** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:10 am

Perhaps you could make it so that the NPC buys wine and beer as well as sells it. Maybe have a limit to how much it buys each day and spread that limit throuought a 24 hour period.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:11 am

I beleive it would be the tavern owner (Tialdin) who would supply the drinks, the npc would just sell them.

Keunthus · Post by **Keunthus** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:10 pm

Whats wrong with free beer?

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:51 pm

Oh, so this is the friendly way to tell someone not to post in the RP forum?

Heh.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:31 pm

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:I Agree...

You should spend some more seconds to think about this topic.

In my opinion Illarions main intention was always to give the player free hand as much as possible.

The tavern was build, or better said payed, by players / characters, if these owners decide to abandon thier building it is thier decision.
You cannot fix this with placing a NPC there.

There are several disavantages you have to think about.

1. You practicly destroy an employment for a character.
2. If this NPC sells potions, even useless, you set minimum prizes and maybe hurt the little cripple we call "Illarion Economy".
If you set these prizes to high, you render this NPC useless.
3. If one gets one, everybody wants one and there is no reason to deny.

All you can do about the Tavern Cassandra is to ask Neon if there are still owners left (he is one, if I remember correctly), if not or none of them has the time or the will to take care of this buliding declare it public or sell it.

Belegi · Post by **Belegi** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 11:55 pm

Darlok wrote: 1. You practicly destroy an employment for a character.
2. If this NPC sells potions, even useless, you set minimum prizes and maybe hurt the little cripple we call "Illarion Economy".
If you set these prizes to high, you render this NPC useless.
3. If one gets one, everybody wants one and there is no reason to deny.

Well, I think I disagree about this. Let us have a look at Illarion in general first.

There are almost no NPCs except monsters, animals and some merchants. Two merchants are concentrated at one room in one building in one town of the island. Since ever, this shop was a so called hot spot, a place where player characters met and where roleplaying took place. There are few hot spots on the island, few places where player characters often go due to their normal life.

Now, we have serveral completely useless buildings no one needs nor uses anymore. If I´d name some, people would scream and say, "no, no, it is used by... erm... me once in a month." If I get you right, you want to abandon these buildings or make them "public". I have no problems with that, but that would mean we have to abandon almost every building of the whole wide island, even complete cities.

This cannot be. Diversity is an element that improves fun and gameplay, so I suggest to take another path; the creation of new hot spots out of old places everyone is used to. Let us take the tavern as an example; it is used only during festivals or celebrations, sometimes some characters sit there and talk instead of talking at the millstone. But there is nothing to do there.

If there would be a NPC, what would this change?

1.) More characters would stop by
2.) There is something "new", something interesting and the game becomes more dynamic (for some days or weeks, but this improves motivation a lot)
3.) The non existing PC-bartenders would be without a job; honestly, do we have a bartender character who is on like a NPC could? (I know, Brodi is ... unavaiable)
4.) Eliza´s store would not be the only place on the island where you could buy items
5.) Money would be spend and leave the economic circle; currently, we have too much money and an inflation of gold (gold has no value anymore)

Maybe to your points now:

1. You practicly destroy an employment for a character.

Right. And not right in the same time. No busy tavern -> no bartender (no one sits there for hours waiting for customers but plays another char or leave the tavern instead). So, this job is non existing IMHO. But if there would be a NPC, who says that a PC bartender would be unemployed? If there really would be customers around, maybe those who now lurk at the millstone 24/7, don´t you think that this would improve his chances to play his role? Like, he is the bartender and the NPC is some kind of service crew?

Deserted Tavern -> no need for a PC bartender
Crowdy Tavern -> POSSIBILITY to play a bartender

2. If this NPC sells potions, even useless, you set minimum prizes and maybe hurt the little cripple we call "Illarion Economy".

Again, I say yes and no.

Sure, no one on the island would buy the goods the NPC sells from other players for more gold. And those who specialized in selling beer (anyone knows a char who plays a brewer?! Not me.) will be pissed and maybe loose their motivation. But now, there is this point I totally disagree; the economy will not suffer from this, I think the opposite holds true. Currently, we have the following state: Everyone has everything and everyone is rich as hell, so he can buy the things he needs. Beer and wine are completely useless items, a waste of gold (do not argue with a dwarf about that). Stuff is created to sell it for a laughable prize to Eliza to have more gold no one really needs. So, excuse me, but the economy is totally messed up right now.

So, a NPC who sells useless things will take money out of the system and so improve our system. It will become more dynamic, because less gold means more work and more chances to interact. The other case would be that the char buys no beer, sits around at the millstone and stares bored into the air. He´d have the chance to go to the tavern, buy a beer and then stare bored into the air. The difference is that he spend money instead of horting it in his depot.

Even quests could be realized by such an NPC; so, he could run out of beer and buys hops and such, the players would have something to do instead of sitting around. You could make some money in this manner you can spend afterwards in the tavern. But this has nothing to do with the economy, it just offers new possibilities for roleplaying.

3. If one gets one, everybody wants one and there is no reason to deny.

Once again, yes and nay. You mean, if Tialdin (as the current char in charge of the tavern) gets one, Nilo (or whoever from the farmers) wants one too. Right, this might be a problem, so I´d say that these NPC´s will be no "property" of a certain character or even player. They are just there and basta. And, honestly, if the GMs say "no", I think players should accept this and again basta.

And... what would be so wrong about having more NPCs? I know, Illarion is a special game and nothing should be done what works out fine with other games, but well, I think this time we should have a look at other games.

Now back to my general thought; not caring about the places where NPCs will be placed, these places will be hot spots. Now, by creating these hot spots, you add some spice to the game, characters would have to walk across the island to reach these places and there would be much more dynamic in the game (still having characters in mind standing dull around the millstones).

Now let us think about a variation of all this; we have Eliza and Sam. Now let us cut Eliza and Sam to pieces and throw them to various regions of the island. What would this mean? Some items could be bought at a certain merchant let´s say in Greenbriar, others in Silverbrand, others at the Eldan Monastery. Now what would happen? The characters who need these items could try to buy at local, PC merchants (what we all want, eh?) or could take the long trip, with having lots of chances to get ambushed, get lost in the forest, meeting a faerie, encountering monsters and so on. A dynamic state instead of just walking to Eliza and selling ones stuff. On the other hand, when only certain NPC merchants buy things, we have almost the same state; first, you would try to sell to PC merchants or you´d go to the merchant of your choice. But to sell various items, you´d have to cross the whole island, and maybe you are not keen to do that. So, you 1) specialize in certain items you want to craft and sell (no I can do everything myself-chars anymore) or 2) sell your stuff to PC-merchants anyway (what we want once again).

Well, a long text with few real points, so here comes my summary:

Creation of hot spots improves game play, fun and the economy.

Sorry for spelling errors and such, I hope you forgive me

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:02 am

If Illarion needs hot spots, they should bring back the depot in that little spot outside the shop. People were always there, no matter what. If you were looking to buy or sell, that would be one of your first stops. Then they removed it and everyone dispersed elsewhere.

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:05 am

There aren't enough players to currently support the tavern for a good ammount of time for there to be much custom. An NPC would allow the tavern to be open 24/7 and people would know that if they went there they'd get a drink and they could then meet each other there, and have fun times. I think this presents a good opportunity and it should be given a go, maybe a trial moment to then see if it is good or bad.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:15 am

Has anyone thought it might be difficult to place an NPC at how you guys are describing it?

That's how I took it when a GM stated:

"I Agree."

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:24 am

You seem to glorify the NPC Barkeeper.
Its a stupid-script-guided-circle-walker.

You approach him or her, click, the script deletes a specific amount of gold coins and you get a drink of your choise.

Thats it.

I have my doubts that this create a "hot spot".
If your theory is right, then Sam and Eliza would be a point where constant good roleplay is maintained, but most I see are silent characters and the ever repeating sentance of Eliza:
"It is a pleasure to do buissness with you."

(Not wanting to mention that Tibia is filled with NPCs that are exactly like this.)

You need human interaction to create a hot spot.

By the way, I have other theories why the tavern is generaly avoided by our players, but this cannot be fixed by placeing a NPC there.
"Hunger and Thirst" are the magic words.

Cassandra Fjurin · Post by **Cassandra Fjurin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:50 am

Ok then we have hungry and thirsty players which are standing in front of a tavern with no barkeeper because the players of the barkeeper haven't enough time to play theire role.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:53 am

You are sadisticly pessimistic.

If there is a need there is always an offer.
If the Barkeeper is not present, its his problem if he is losing profit and some farmers make a fortune.

There are topic concerning hunger and thirst and how this could be handled.
I am too lazy to repeat this here.

Belegi · Post by **Belegi** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:13 am

Concering the hot spot:

The only hot spot we currently have is the square in front of Eliza´s shop. Yes, here most of the roleplaying starts or takes place. This place has many advantages; you can see everyone who enters the town from south or east, you have a short way to the depots and to Eliza.

So, hot spots are places where you have various possibilities to do something or to interact. Creating more possibilities should be an aim of any further changes.

If the Barkeeper is not present, its his problem if he is losing profit and some farmers make a fortune.

I think it is the problem of all players if we have useless, deserted buildings. We could also tear down all unused buildings, the elves would love this idea. Then we would have an island with ... wait, a shop in the wilderness?

Creating demand by hunger and thirst might also be a good point to improve the game, as long as it does not lower the fun people have playing Illarion.

Besides, sometimes an offer can create a need. Or does the world really need rubbish like Swiffer?

Concerning Tibia:

Currently, there are 22038 players playing Tibia and 7 playing Illarion. So, not everything must be wrong just because it is realized in Tibia. Tibia is not the game I want to play, but this is mostly due to the players, not the gameplay (well, the gfx are horrible). I think Illarion is such a special game due to its community and its gamemasters, if there are possibilities to add fun to this game, I see no reason to reject them just because another game realized similar things.

Edit: and no, I don´t want those 22038 players here in Illarion, but maybe 1/1000 of them?

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:24 am

Darlok wrote: If the Barkeeper is not present, its his problem if he is losing profit and some farmers make a fortune.

It's their problem because they are busy in RL?

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:25 am

Fooser wrote:
Darlok wrote: If the Barkeeper is not present, its his problem if he is losing profit and some farmers make a fortune.
It's their problem because they are busy in RL?

Yep, it is.

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:57 am

I think the bartenders rarely go there because people are rarely there. Put an npc bartender and you have a nice hang out for you chars. Much better than the middle of the street.

Domitrio · Post by **Domitrio** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:19 am

I think it was still skipped over about the difficulty of implementing another NPC.. how hard is that exactly Darlok?

If it wouldn't take a horrible amount of work on the GMs part I think that would really help RP. I know I've went to the tavern thirsty and left there in the same state. Great RP for there to be unused buildings everywhere you know.

Kincent Nolatri · Post by **Kincent Nolatri** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:26 am

Didnt you know Trollsbane is a ghost town, thats why we dont allow a high online list or more than 5 people in town even when theres 20 online...you know for good rp

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:55 am

Domitrio wrote: how hard is that exactly Darlok?

I have no clue. (Me not staff-member

)

The old NPCs where hardcoded,
the current NPCs are handled with the database, I belive to have heard.

But I may be completely wrong here. You have to ask Martin or Cassandra.

The easiest solution is to pass the tavern to a group of active characters.
They can take care of the tavern and fill it with life again, maybe even try to establish shifts for thier bartenders.
(All been done before, so it is possible.)
Or "hang out" there at least together so it isnt that dull and boring.
Holding parties there or special events will also help to attract more people to check this place out.

Salvieri · Post by **Salvieri** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 3:59 am

Or maybe someone will try and take it over because no-one seems to e there to stop me stealing drinks from behind the bar

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:28 am

The easiest solution is to pass the tavern to a group of active characters.
They can take care of the tavern and fill it with life again, maybe even try to establish shifts for thier bartenders.
(All been done before, so it is possible.)
Or "hang out" there at least together so it isnt that dull and boring.
Holding parties there or special events will also help to attract more people to check this place out.

That's sort of the problem. Inactive dwarves own it. And they don't plan giving it up I believe.

martin · Post by **martin** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:58 am

Darlok wrote:You need human interaction to create a hot spot.

Yes. And to have human interaction, you need at least 2 human beings.

That's the problem here.

We have simply not enough players and there is noone (which I can understand) who wants to stay in the tavern forever.

BTW: At hotspots in general:
Separation is good, because people would start walking around instead of standing.

Martin

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:08 am

I've actually had some pretty good fun simply role playing with Sam and Eliza.

Keunthus · Post by **Keunthus** » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:33 am

Why should we need a barkeep? As it it now, we can roleplay that we drink. It isn't hard.