Magic Discussion

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:21 pm

I think it sohuld be clear that it's bad RP to machinegun such strong spells, we don't need a technical barrier -.-

Don't make me laugh.
That is the most flawed argument I have read (in the last 15 minutes).

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:22 pm

Technical barrier? Yes we do, because not everyone will RP it when their character is soon to be killed

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:29 pm

Being able to kill characters with nearly average intelligence and essence in 2 spells that can be casted within a second is the joke, it isnt meant to be like that, it will be changed, end.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:30 pm

As long its fair, magic can be a huge threat, just as sharp and pointy things are.

However, if you do not have a valid argument and claming everything can be done by "unwritten RP laws", then you really should leave this discussion and not return.

Meriel Pelith · Post by **Meriel Pelith** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:36 pm

Arameh_ wrote:Being able to kill characters with nearly average intelligence and essence in 2 spells that can be casted within a second is the joke, it isnt meant to be like that, it will be changed, end.

You should stop speaking about things you have no clue of. Please. Thank you. Create a mage char and find out yourself how hard it is. That it is not unfair. Please try to find a teacher. And stay without any success for a long time til you get your first runes. And get your first skills. And afterwards, when you still think it's unfair, you can continue with your ranting.

If the GMs have the opinion that a mage should be able to kill one warrior 1vs1 then you will have to live with it.
Would there have been a second warrior, Silas wouldn't have managed it - even with Meriel at his side.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:44 pm

Xalliar wrote:This isn't my point.
Look at some uber-warriors for example... You can be dead against those in a few seconds aswell.

In my opinion, the system is just fair. It's quite easy to run near someone, ctrlclick and then just wait until someone dies...
Magic needs action from the player, too.

I think it's really the case that Warriors want to pwn mages, and mages want to pwn warriors... It's clear that everybody wants best for his char, and I also respect this. But if you ask me, the system is already fair. See what a mage does when a warrior gets close enough...

EDIT: I highly doubt that you can decide anything in here, Arameh, so STFU. Thank you.

I didnt decide anything, and no I wont STFU, thank you.

Warriors dont have any possibilitys than run after the mage and ctrl click, youre right, since when is this an advantage. I mean, if the warriors get close, you can teleport, and then pwn him in 2 seconds? The warriors cant do anything, he just stand there and die, whatever his skill, whatever he have 16 essence, he cant do anything, no, it isnt fair.

I know learning of spells can be difficult since there is, well 0, active teachers, but that isnt a reason to make magic stronger. Currently its like "If you got the luck to find a teacher, your character will become a demi god, if you dont have the luck to find one then STFU and make another character" , thats just worse.

Meriel Pelith · Post by **Meriel Pelith** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:48 pm

You seriously have no clue what you speak of Arameh.

You have no clue how fast your energy dies down when someone attacks you. Even if you wear leather armour.

When you are lucky you *can* kill one warrior 1vs1
But not two.

And I think that's pretty alright this way.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:20 pm

I think no one cares about beating NPCs, because the only reason we do is to train to be better in PvP.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:21 pm

I dont know what "WoW" I dont get your point anyway

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:23 pm

"World of Warcraft"

And excuse me, but WoW isn't only about PvP.

Of course its a stupid comparison, is like saying "Apples aren't oranges."

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:39 pm

I tend to agree on a cooling off period. Same for fighting, each weapon, depending on strength and size takes time before you can swing it again and you havea chance to have that weapon miss or be parried and have to wait again for it to swing.
A spells cooling off period should depend on it's damage causing and/or mana usage.

NirAntae · Post by **NirAntae** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:44 pm

Actually, that's a fabulous idea... a casting time is a good idea; an after-casting time is even better. That gives a chance for them to teleport out or cast some defensive spell or whatnot immediately, but not allow them to 'machinegun' spells.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:46 pm

Xalliar wrote:The stronger spells have such a refresh-time already
And IMHO, i am also not against it to make the (ELEMENT) KEL QWAN-spells having a refresh-duration, but it shouldn't be too long (I think a second or less )

Not all of us know what (ELEMENT) KEL QWAN-spells means -.-

If you mean the icecube, its a very strong spell, and there is already supposed to be a casting time for it, which seems to be alright, but the spell is just bugged currently, thats why I said it was gonna be changed.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:55 pm

Ive seen Samantha casting about 4 icecubes in 3 seconds, the casting time is bugged or something, greater fireballs are casted more slowly.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:44 pm

the prepare time on KEL QWAN spells is there it's just small. about a second or less

second= one of the hand motion graphics?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:32 am

Maybe because you were too busy casting on someone else

.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:34 am

It was in the tavern, a small building, you were running instead of casting, and Taliss was hitting you, you really wanted to have a chance?

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:37 am

And? A warrior is nothing agaisnt 2 mages at great distance, fair uh?

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:39 am

but there is many warriors in the game but only a handful of mages, and not all are good at it

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:39 am

And? its not like its mages against warriors

Edit : Only 2 farmers ig...lets boost their farming capacitys!

Samantha Meryadeles · Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:52 am

I think if the town continues like this it WILL BE mages against warriors, and the warriors wont be happy with it

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:54 am

The mages neither. No mage without heavy powergaming is able to kill a mummy before it gets close. And even with green skill, the warrior will reach the "normal" mage before the mage can do much against that. That kinda sucks.

Gildon · Post by **Gildon** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:56 am

Cause they all stick together! Like warriors do... Uh, wait! That is strange >_>

EDIT: Illarion should allow power-gaming, >_> Everyone is doing it anyway. ( Except Rankor. )

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:02 am

Well...in truth not many of us powergame, we tend to mix "training a lot" and "powergame". To me powergaming is training more than RPing, and staying idle to get back your character's "energy", a character that does train daily, and then go RPing after it trains, is not powergaming to me, many people seems to mix the 2.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:03 am

In fact, our skill system supports powergaming alot. The only measurements taken do limit it - the learning capacity - only have the sense of making the players do something else than powergaming if they dont just log out or stand around in unpopulated places being idle. Since it has been built in very much different than the original proposal, it doesnt really help against powergaming.

Juniper Onyx · Post by **Juniper Onyx** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:19 am

This is the beginning of a discussion from the Newbie Board. I have moved it here to continue discussion if anyone would like.

I began by asking:
Magic comes from Nature and the Gods. Why can't a character just learn from the source? Druids do.

In crafting, sure, there are 'secrets' that are easier if someone 'teaches' you, but, with enough perseverence, you can find out by yourself. My Character 'Dusty' didn't have anyone teach him carpentry, tailoring, cooking, Dying, Gem-cutting or smithing, yet I was able to learn these on my own. Now I teach others, because I know it's hard if you don't know.

Magic should be available to anyone, just as fighting and crafting is. I see no difference. They are equal in my book.

Magic seems to be the only 'system' that is 'unlike' the others. That tells me that it is either an oversight, or a privileged few wanted to keep it that way. It should be fixed to resemble the others. Not easy, but attainable by anyone with desire.

Just my opinion.....

Laviath Rathor said:
Magic should stay a special thing in my oppinion, just like druidism should become. Why should there be as many mages or druids as there are fighters or crafters? I mean everyone could learn fighting, everyone could learn how to use a hammer. But who has the special talent to set something on fire with his naked hands? If magic would be easy to learn, the "realism" in Illarion would be completly destroid. And also I think, that the hard way to become a mage increases the RP of the mages. Many great fighters do a stinky Rp, because they didn't have to RP much to get their skills. Everything they had to do to get such great skills where using their weapons. But mages have to get ingame-knowledge, they have to meditate, to do experiments and and and.

Estralis Seborian said:
smile realism.

Sure thing, becoming a mage (bard / priest / druid) should be more time consuming than becoming a grunt, but one should still feel that it is possible within a reasonable time. No scripter is keen to code dozends of spells that are only used by 5-10 players in total.

Edit: One possible way out of the mess: Basic runes for basic spells can be bought in a magic academy, advanced runes can be obtained by static quests, uber runes are dropped by uber monsters and the best runes are only available from other players. With "best" runes I mean the runes you need for the best spells, like QWAN.

Nir Antare said:
Yes. Yes, yes yes. Please! Let some 'basic' magic be learnable on your own. So that you can go ahead and *start* learning before you find a willing and able teacher. Leave the current teaching system in place, but let some of the most basic runes attainable in other ways. Maybe the runes used for the 'first' spell of each 'school' of magic (commotio, etc.).

Faladron said:
It limits your rp possibilities greatly to only be able to create a Novice Mage.

Maybe some people would love to play a little experienced mage seeking to share knowledge with those mages around now,
instead of being a little student knowing nothing and having to be nice and friendly and looked down upon by the mages already around.

Ku 'Agor said:
I have an idea! Let's just hand out runes OR ask runescape for some advice!

Monster drops sound like a horrid idea.

F*cking realism sounds like a great idea.

What about runes that only come from the source. If a god of trees had a magical tree rune, why the hell not place it in a tree with a one in 500 chance of it popping out when some lumberjack chops it down? Or mabey the rune of rock or something being a very rare Mining find?

What if you got the rune as an item, then you had the /option/ to place it in your magical inventory.

Eh? Eh?

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:04 am

Magic has always tried to be kept a secret. From high priced rune books to keeping the sacrifices a secret. The only difference now is that it is much easier to keep it secret.

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:06 am

There is a diffrence between secret and annoying.

Say you planted only the roots of a tree, and then put a rock ontop of the base.

It won't grow.

Exactly what happened here, they planted magic in a few teachers and then because of the human variable the tree isn't growing.

Not to mention; because of RP you cant exactly have any range of characters with magic besides thoughs the roots like.

Cliu Beothach · Post by **Cliu Beothach** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:07 am

Even if we had more active teachers with the ability to do so, it would still be kept a secret.

Ku 'Agor · Post by **Ku 'Agor** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:09 am

More active, and more variety.

I don't want Happy Pappy Do Goodding as the only option for teachers. There needs to be some 'bad' teachers.