Illarion.org

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2003 4:11 pm**

Once again Kringin, listen do not argue, just take the ban. What Darlok has shown is pretty obvious.

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2003 8:42 pm**

Oh Darlok you are soo trying to get me in deeper trouble your recods dont match with mine you seen to have copied and pasted! Feeling Guilty Darlok!?

Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: hello yizzan
Yizzan: Hello Strecko
Yizzan: Not seen you for some time
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko thinks.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: did we just not meet yestreday?
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan: I do not think so.....
Strecko shrugs.
Yizzan: we may have, my memory slips sometimes
Strecko: yes mine too
Strecko laughs.
Yizzan: i'm not as young as i once was
Yizzan: I'm almost 1500 years old!
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: just so i stay a littel stong i use a shield instead of a staff
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan: shields are always good
Strecko: yes
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan: the gods seen fit i should lose my skills
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: why?
Yizzan: ((powergaming))
Yizzan: I do not know
Strecko: ((hmm in what skill?))
Yizzan: they gave me a spell of rotten luck
Yizzan: ((all skills!))
Yizzan: I slipt and hit my head on a rock and forgot them all
Strecko: ((did you?))
Strecko: oh
Strecko: too bad
Yizzan: ((no, no powergaming for me))
Yizzan: yes
Strecko: ((oh good))
Yizzan: I am learning them back though
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: you may cast one me randomly i dont mind
Yizzan: ((good thing i can role play this out though))
Yizzan: yes, ok
Yizzan: you may too if you wish
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ((haha yes peopel have issues with dwarf mages
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel qwan
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan: ((why?))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: (( " It is not Proper Roleplay" ))
Strecko: (( I made a roleplay reason))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan: ((bah, whos to say there is no magical dwarf?))
Strecko: ((exactly what i am saying))
Yizzan: ((you could have been given your magical powers by a powerful mage!))
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: i know
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: moromic people
Strecko: most of the meople are anti-magic
Yizzan: anti magic you say?
Strecko: they say they are "enforcing" the lay
Strecko: *law
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: i say you drug addict
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan: me sir?
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko: nono
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: poeple who are looking for a reason to kill people
Yizzan: fighting is not good, but one should be prepared to defend thyself
Strecko: since mages cast magic and i sometimes do in town
Strecko: its not likei block pubick pathways or harm anyonw
Yizzan: ahh, i am a mage, but i don't like casting in town
Strecko: *public
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ((dam typos))
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: back then nobody cared enough if you casted a fire in town
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: so they just said dont do that
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: hept kel
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Yizzan wonders what is wrong with my magic.
Yizzan: his*
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Strecko: ((this game system is overly imbalanced))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Yizzan: ((but it's better than most others))
Yizzan: ((yoou must give it that))
Yizzan: you*
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ((nah sometimes i find hack-and-slash games more fun then this))
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: (( its the people))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra pen
Yizzan: ((sometimes, the people here are uptight))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra pen
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra pen
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra pen
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ((yea))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra luk
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra luk
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra luk
Strecko forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko: yeg kel
Strecko forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko: yeg kel
Strecko forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko: yeg kel
Yizzan: have you seen Nilo?
Strecko forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko: yeg kel
Strecko thinks.
Strecko: Nilo ...
Yizzan: yes
Strecko: oo I remember him
Strecko: I just arrived yesterday
Strecko: havent seen him yesterday or today
Yizzan: what do you mean? You left the island?
Strecko: yes
Strecko: i just vidit here
Strecko: *visit
Yizzan: how long will you stay?
Strecko shrugs.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: i sometiems like the sea so i stay on teh boat
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan: I also like boats
Yizzan: But i prefer to fare myself against the rough sea
Strecko: the first time i rode it i felt a littel Qweasy
Yizzan: I swam to this island you know.......
Strecko: hmm
Strecko: wow
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: a fugitive?
Yizzan: a mighty feat eh?
Strecko forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko: yeg kel
Strecko: yes indeed
Strecko forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko: yeg kel
Yizzan: no sir, banished from my home by my brother!
Strecko forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko: yeg kel
Strecko: and you call him a brother..
Yizzan: ((so you wanna play dirty eh?))
Yizzan laughs.
Strecko: ((???))
Yizzan: ((casting paralyze on me, heh heh))
Strecko: ((just once))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: tah sav
Yizzan: yes he defeated me in the way of the ancient elves
Yizzan forms silent words with his lips.
Yizzan: a true battle of wits and strength
Strecko: i see
Yizzan forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan forms silent words with his lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: hept sij
Yizzan: he defeated me at thumbwrestlin
Yizzan looks at ground.
Strecko laughs.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan: that does not hurt?
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: yes
Yizzan: bad?
Strecko: whew
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: mes pen
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko shivers.
Yizzan: cold?
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra sij
Strecko: yes
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ahh much better
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko: ((do you play other games?))
Yizzan: your are indeed a powerful mage
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko: thank you
Yizzan: ((online games?))
Strecko: you could be yourself
Strecko: ((does not matter))
Someone (30942) tosses the worn off sickle away.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: cun jus
Yizzan: i was, but the gods cursed me
Yizzan: i defeated Leniad with my magic
Someone (30942): Does anybody of you Sires have a Sickle with them?
Strecko has no clue about who leniad is.
Yizzan: no sir, i do not
Strecko: sickles? umm
Strecko: no.. sorry
Yizzan: Leniad is the most powerful fighter on the island
Someone (30942) nods.
Yizzan: But might i say he is weak against magic
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: i used to be a great fisherman i now have trouble fishing
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan: i would fish, but i have no pole
Strecko: mage duels are very fun
Strecko: where you have a big battle field
Yizzan: yes
Yizzan: but not with wands
Strecko: and you cast till one gives up or dies..
Strecko: yea
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: i'm trying to find an old friend who STIL has my WAND!
Yizzan: hahaha
Strecko is frustrated.
Strecko: do you know Wiergraf?
Yizzan: do you have mana potions?
Yizzan: I know of him, yes
Strecko: can you tell him that I want my wand back
Strecko: ((his other char has it))
Yizzan: If i see him i will
Yizzan: ((what's it's name))
Strecko: ((i forgot lol))
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan: do you have mana potions?
Strecko: its been a long time..
Strecko: umm no
Strecko: i'll got soe fish
Yizzan: ok
Strecko: You are encumbered.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: You are stuffed.
Strecko: You are stuffed.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko (w): you play any other online games?
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan (w): I play runescape sometimes
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra kel
Yizzan: nice lightning strike
Strecko (w): ugh how could you?
Yizzan (w): because i actually role play
Strecko (w): i cant stand that game after 4 months
Yizzan (w): and if you don't role play, i won't talk to you
Yizzan (w): not meaning you though
Yizzan (w): i'm talking about people on the game
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko (w): oh i see i dont see how its possible in runescape, but o well
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: nice
Yizzan (w): i roll play as a monk
Strecko: fish under you
Yizzan: thank you
Yizzan bows.
Strecko: its been there
Strecko:
Yizzan: oh
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: hept kel
Yizzan: I was wondering what that was
Strecko: oh
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra pen
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra pen
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ra pen
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: ((afk))
Yizzan: ((??))
Strecko: ((back))
Yizzan: ((I don't understand))
Strecko: ((away from keyboard))
Yizzan: ((ok))
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Strecko forms silent words with the lips.
Strecko: kel jus
Yizzan: I think i'm getting better at the hept spell
Strecko: oh thats good
Strecko: dont forget the small spells
Strecko: they can also come in handy
Yizzan (w): it's already turning red already, and i just started again yesterday
Yizzan: of course not
Strecko: ok
Yizzan: Hello lady elf
Strecko: ahH!
Strecko: You are encumbered.
Strecko: Welcome to Illarion. There are 17 other players online.
Strecko: Be sure to follow the rules, given on the homepage http://rules.illarion.org - if you don't, you may be deleted without warning.

Yizzan (w): why did she do that?
Strecko: You are encumbered.
Strecko (w): {removed}
Someone (13895): bye bye

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2003 8:45 pm**

You know what I am leaving this immoral place. See ya in ... long time...

Posted: **Sun Jun 08, 2003 10:28 pm**

I think you made Darloks case very well Kringin. Powergaming, smilies, plenty of outloud OOC. Darloks version did you more favours and he did say he had edited it heavily.

Posted: **Mon Jun 09, 2003 2:52 am**

besides, it even more clearly states you and yoru friend were casting on eachother which would coinstitute powergaming...

Posted: **Mon Jun 09, 2003 3:30 am**

On this issue of powergaming. People hit each other with swords and it is called dueling or practicing.

So why can't mages do the same thing with spells?

My character is not a mage but I just think it should be fair all the way around.

Posted: **Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:51 am**

When you train with swords, you use protection... Shields, heavy armour, padded suits and dull swords and such. This is however impossible with magic as even a proficient mage only has limited control over his own spells. Unlike a swordsman he cannot decide how hard he wants to git, and must already be a master if he can cast with accuracy, there fore training on another person is bound to hurt that person greatly.

You woulnd't set your friends alight just to increase their resistance to fire, would you?

Posted: **Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:55 pm**

I had no idea that that was powergaming. Good thing I'm a druid! But I may have just missed the post or whatever where it says how long Strecko and Yizzan are banned for. How long? Permanent? I think they need to get a LOT more people than just them, I've seen at least 50 people training their magic on each other like that. ((and to see 50 people on illarion at all doing anything is amazing)) Not at one time mind you, but over all. I have never read anywhere, or heard anywhere that that is Powergaming, but I would like to know if there is a powergamig rulebook or something some where. Can someone drop me a link?

Posted: **Mon Jun 09, 2003 11:18 pm**

There is no actual rulebook it is judged by the GM's if it is or not. T is not exact. (and sometimes they judge unfairly, but they are the gods afterall

)

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:36 am**

For Maktan, who does not read the Rules:

Carrying out an action repeatedly, and for an extended time to raise your skill, is called Power gaming, and is forbidden. A worse case is when the player is doing something else to entertain him/her self meanwhile (e.g. watching tv). Note: Casting offensive spells on yourself will kill you instantly.

Also flipping through the Pages of Moonsilver, i did not find the Names of the GM Characters under the Links of the Gods.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:44 am**

Nowhere in that definition does it say that casting spells on other people for the purpose of practicing is powergaming.
Only casting on yourself or doing it for an extended period of time.

And there is no clear definition of what an "extended period of time" is. Like someone said earlier, this is judged by the GMs (not the gods) on a case by case basis.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:15 am**

Wizards engaging in exchange of spells is NOT powergaming. Two players casting spells on each other so their characters will have higher magic resistance is...it all comes down to whether or not you have a RP reason.

As Crocket mentioned, nowhere does it say in the rules that magic exchange is powergaming (only casting on yourself is).

Just as two warriors dueling to heighten their skills will get bruises and hurt themselves when they start out no matter what armor they have on, so mages who exchange magic at start will hurt themselves. Mages too have "armor" though it is different from that of fighters. That is their innate magical resistance...(to say more would be to reveal things that should be found out ingame)

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:41 am**

@Elarith, you are a truely wise person, i only wish i could have met you in the game. I would have wanted to meet you and get to know him/her to see how well you could think up a good story for your chacter(s).

I am the character at a loss here, my name is Yizzan i am....errrr......Was a powerful mage, until now. My account was deleted because evidently someone thought i was casting my skills on this dwarf like a bat out of Hades. I was not, i casted on him a few times to see how he fared against my weakened power. I see no difference in my so called powergaming than in a person who runs around mining like a dwarf gone mad. I'm a little upset about the matter right now....... I love this game, it's like something that's been calling to me for a long time now. It's a place where i get to express and share my ideas for my story writing. Which i won an award in my school, if you would like a picture of it just send me a private message. I had RP reasons behind mycasting, and if i would have had a trial i could have explained them. But i had no trial and was forced to have the digital boot kick me in my rump. Please ignore this post if i seemed to ramble on about things of insignificant importance.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:13 am**

WELL...if they banned you for that, Yizzan, then they should just ban almost every mage in Illarion; I have witnessed them or heard many of them admit that they powergamed at least once, somehow, somewhere.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:11 pm**

The important Question about Powergaming is:

Why do you hurt each other?
Never forget this, you Character does feel Pain like you. Losing his Hitpoints is always painful for him. Losing much Hitpoints at once is like beeing torn appart for him.

I really thought about this a long time.
It is more easy to find a reason for Warriors to train with a Partner, as long as it fits in certain "Frame".
There is currently a little Discussion about this Frame going on. (Read it here, German)

I give you a brief outcome:

Reasonable Training is:

Very short Training-Lessons, with a lots/long of Pauses in them
Dont use Healing Spells or Healing Potions during the Training
At the Point where your Character would need a Healing is the Point where i cant carry on any Training and really needs a break.
So using Potions/Spells to extend the Training-Time only shows that this is Powergaming
Stop it when you Character is seriously hurt (IMO after he lost 1/2Hitpoints)

Not Training is:

Casting Spells on each other.
There is absolutly no InGame-Reason to hurt someone for the sole popose of practicing your Magic.
Or why do you set your Friend alight or perforate him with your Ice Bolts?
Using Distance Weapons on a Friend of you.
Who in Hell is so stupid to get a Arrow in his Head/Chest only because his Friend needs some Practice?
Using something harmful on another Character without having a Reason for your own Character to kill/injure this Character.

These List can be extended at anytime.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:10 pm**

Darlok, it is not often that i post on these boards so you are privilaged, but I don't believe you RP very magnificently, you wantonly kill and cast in town, on unarmed men sometimes and go around calling people Peasents and Pack for no apparent reason, i know you mean to RP to a high standard but i think your going about it wrong, especially the casting in town and slashing around.

-Leinad

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:35 pm**

How is that bad roleplay? How often does it cast in town, most people think he is a druid. I think you are 'trying' to say that he isn't a bad citizen under Lyrenzia... Back on topic...
People back in the middle ages used to have people put an apple on the top of a peasants head, then aim their bow and arrow and fire and see if they hit the apple. That could be a reason to raise distance weapons, but I am not an archer...

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 3:53 pm**

Well, Grant, than roleplay that. But unfortunatly the Game Engine does not allow you to fire on an Apple.

Back to the Topic:

Following Questions arose:
Is casting Spells (repeatedly) on the Ground also Powergaming?
Yes it is.
Lets have a look on the Rules to explain that.

Carrying out an action repeatedly, and for an extended time to raise your skill, is called Power gaming, and is forbidden.

You do this only for the Propose to raise your Skills, and according to the Rules it is simply forbidden.

Isn't than mining/herb collecting/lumberjacking/ect. also Powergaming?
No it is not, beacause beside the Skillgain the Character also gains Items, which have a decent Value for him.
(Of course you can overdo this also)

How can we learn Magic, without Powergaming?
Go out and kill some evil Monster with Magic, you will grow better in Time.

There are no Monster currently!
Solve the Quest concerning the missing Monsters and you have them back.

Posted: **Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:59 pm**

What about if you are roleplaying a power freak? would it still be powergaming to do magic and things for skills?

And i agree that a normal person probably would stop training after they got hurt. If i was practising karate and somehow sprained my ankle, i would stop straight away and go rest. But if my character spraind his ankle, it might only be a small portion of his hp bar. hmm, maybe hp bar should be taken away? just a thought.

Illarion.org

Pathetic Roleplaying

powergaming?

Darlok