Suggestion:Thieving Skill

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:30 am

As i said. I free choosing of the thing you could steal is really difficult.

The reason is simple. I could only but this choosing in by such a menu.

But such a menu can hold only 20 items i think. What happens if the character have more items with him?

Something like the selection (money, small item, big item) would be only solution beside a complete random choosing in my eyes.

Nitram

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:43 am

First of all, as we all have agreed: The skill should only be given to a couple of responsible roleplayers. This way, they would have to decide who they would teach the skill to. I do not think one should have a big theves guild, but more like mentors. This way, it would not be too many thieves ingame either. Also, the point of this skill is to reduce the rolplay needed to actually steal. Most players just refuse to let the thief steal anything at all. Also a skill would mean that it both existed good shieves, and bad thieves. Few players roleplay everytime they attack. The roleplay part would be about making the victim comfortable, or sneak up on him. The thieving part would be perfomed by an engine or what you call it. I really cant see what makes it so much easier to abuse thieving, than f.eks. just killing someone. After all there is a lot more bandits around than thieves. If one would have to train thieving, this would be a good thing to do with your mentor. He would train you, and this way even the training would have to be roleplayed.
(Sry if I have writeen anything stupid. Just so damn hunbgry!;) )

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:51 am

Good idea Nitram, I gues you are right. One whould choose from a menu: money, small item and large item. (large item should be nearly imposible...) Or maybe one never shoule be able to see more than the first 5 things in the bag anyway, as the rest are not visbile(chosen randomly or somthing) but of cource, one should see everything in the belt. Earlier somone spoke of stealing from the depot, there is no way this should be posible, and it is not dooable anyway, as all players use the same depos. Anyway, it is no use discusing all this before a gm has even told us if it is posible.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:39 pm

There is just ONE large problem (apart from the others)

If you get caught ONCE while being a master theif, there is a good RP reason not to be next to you, and you'll probably get pked in the first 5 seconds you enter town....

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:47 pm

very right. What happens with known thiefs and robbers if they walk around in public? Of Course, the get hunted!

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:52 pm

Even if they wear robes and such, half the players will ignore that and kill them anyway I'm sure.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:37 pm

one solution for that could be, to give thieves two numbers. one to "work" and one for "off-duty"
(if tecnically possible)

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:10 pm

Kevin Lightdot wrote:Even if they wear robes and such, half the players will ignore that and kill them anyway I'm sure.

*coughStephencough*

Achae Eanstray · Post by **Achae Eanstray** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:07 pm

Korm Kormsen wrote:one solution for that could be, to give thieves two numbers. one to "work" and one for "off-duty"
(if tecnically possible)

But thieves possibly would and should be recognized if there is proof that they stole the item. I wonder if a little extra ability to run..maybe be a little faster or something similar may help (or even make proving it difficult)? If possible, would setting it up to where the more items the thief has stolen, the easier it would be to prove that char is a thief work-then if jailed for the crime..it would again be hard to prove that char is a thief (if can be done)?

Just a thought also....a thief will be able to see what is in the hands or the belt but not the bag...it appears there should be a limit on how much the thief can steal or there could be some very rich thieves soon.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:20 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:There is just ONE large problem (apart from the others)

If you get caught ONCE while being a master theif, there is a good RP reason not to be next to you, and you'll probably get pked in the first 5 seconds you enter town....

But that is how it should be. A thief is meant to be hard to play.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:34 pm

These are problems thieves allready face. Making a thieves skill would not make these problems any biger. A similar problem would be when people get killed or are put in jail for a some crime. When this is done the person is free of guilt. Of course all players dont know this, so it would be the thiefs job to tell them ooc. As thief getting caught, should have to pay a big fine, and so he would not get to rich, at least not easily. A good thief would of course earn more as he more seldom get caught.
A thief on work should also tell ooc or somthing that he is wearing a hood, and a big robe or somthing. This way one would not be able to see who he is as easily. Maybe it even is posible to make a disguise skill, so that one could only see a coulpe of the numbers in the id ( choosen randomly) This might mean a lot work for the gm's though, as it probably would be hard to do. I believe one would have to go for the disguise skill.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:36 pm

Can anyone ask a gm if it's even a point discusing this?

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:22 pm

Nitram wrote:Okay, now to write some clear things.

Something like a engine supported thieving is all in all possible i think, if someone writes it.

The learning if this skill, would only be possible while training with others. (Thievs guild). The rate of learning would need to be, really high, because you have a low amount of actions.
Of cause you can train with normal victims too. But they won't be happy about this, i think.

The problem while scripting is, the balancing.

Should the player be able to choose what he steals (really difficult) or not?

There could be a small chooing possibility. Like Money - small item - huge item. The bigger the item, the bigger the chance that the victim will be aware, that someone is taking something from him.

Then there is the RP problem, with such a skill. This skill would be only a engine support for RP. If the peoples start to steal without any RP, everyone will get pissed.

Nitram

hmm.. Nitram what do you mean should the player see it! A thief should RP! And when stolen the person can REPORT if the other did not RP. I mean I still want the RP.. But, the whole point of this is too prevent those who are too greedy and only give like 1 copper..

nmaguire · Post by **nmaguire** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:02 pm

Ah, but a large amount of coins isn't very realistic either. Especially if the coins are LOOSE. It would be easily noticable if someone put their hand into your bag/belt/pocket and started to grab handfuls of coins.

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:04 pm

swish1 wrote:hmm.. Nitram what do you mean should the player see it! A thief should RP! And when stolen the person can REPORT if the other did not RP.

But what if you don't recognize instandly that your unique sword disappeared out of your bag?

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:55 pm

I don't even think it should be posible to steal a sword, or at least it must be REALY hard... It should not be posible at all to steal unque swords I think. Stealing a lot of moeny is not hard mnaguire. Imagine a pouch being weared in your belt, then imagine a small knife cutting this off. Such a pouch could contain hundreds of cp, or silverpeaces... Maybe one should start with just making it posible to steal money, and see how it works.

nmaguire · Post by **nmaguire** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:57 pm

I said if the money was LOOSE. In capitals. So people might read it. I know it would be much easier to steal purses and such.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:59 pm

Well, you said it wouldnt be realistic at all, and who keeps their money in their pocket?

swish1 · Post by **swish1** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:27 pm

Nitram wrote:
swish1 wrote:hmm.. Nitram what do you mean should the player see it! A thief should RP! And when stolen the person can REPORT if the other did not RP.
But what if you don't recognize instandly that your unique sword disappeared out of your bag?

I got it!!!! A perfect solution! There should be a delay! People who are really bad at thieving can steal and the other player would see the item dissappear 6 seconds later and the server would say.
You just notice that your [item] is missing! And this second delay could give others time to run. Or.. the delay could not depend on skill but rather server randomization. Sometimes the player could notice right away or sometimes after a long time?

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:14 am

How about we just stick to rp. Makes it more fun and encourages people to use their brain and not their ueber powergaming skills.

WickedEwok · Post by **WickedEwok** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:34 am

let's deactivate the fighting and crafting system also and let's trust on everyone to roleplay properly?
many people just don't react to ingame situations and only do their game for their own benefits. this would force them to react, when there's the situation that they've been stolen from.

@nitram:
the skillgain doesn't have to be that high
you could make it easy to pick money first, the next step would be a small item and the last step a big item. and we're talking about very easy to pick a few coins... and only a few.

Taylor · Post by **Taylor** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:08 am

I've played three or four theifs with no problems at all. Well, Dei, but dei was an assassin aswell, so ofcourse people were after him. I've stolen from..Hell, Salathe, Pendar, Stephen, Culandria, Nialandria, (Some Knights of the Grey rose, It's too much fun to keep it secret who, whats the fun in revealing it?

), Allura, Athian, Marie, Maggie, ect ect. The list is quite long. Infact, over all my theif characters, I've stolen over...300 silvers worth of stuff and coins.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:40 pm

@Swish1: Good idea with the delay, but it should be random, and allways more than 6 seckonds I think. Maybe it would be a bit to hard to do though, for the engine or what you call it.
@Taylor: Nice going! Really wonder how you did that. I have been trying for days, and only stolen 30 silver=( You really have to teach me that.

Nalzaxx · Post by **Nalzaxx** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:00 pm

Taylor wrote:I've played three or four theifs with no problems at all. Well, Dei, but dei was an assassin aswell, so ofcourse people were after him. I've stolen from..Hell, Salathe, Pendar, Stephen, Culandria, Nialandria, (Some Knights of the Grey rose, It's too much fun to keep it secret who, whats the fun in revealing it? ), Allura, Athian, Marie, Maggie, ect ect. The list is quite long. Infact, over all my theif characters, I've stolen over...300 silvers worth of stuff and coins.

Agreed. Play a thief right and its not so hard.

The thing is, the successful thieves who will be able to make use of this skill, are exactly the ones that don't need the skill.

Cuthalion · Post by **Cuthalion** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:57 pm

Well, the problem as I see it, isnt the thieves, but the victims. At the moment it doesnt matter much how good YOU are.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:02 pm

All you must do is pick on the people who you know do good rp

And in perhaps a week or so, 30 silver is a lot of money. An awful lot.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:20 pm

Cuthalion wrote:Well, you said it wouldnt be realistic at all, and who keeps their money in their pocket?

Me. I don't bother getting my wallet when I go out. And I keep the money in an inaccessible place.

@Swish first point: If the person is a bad rp'er and won't give you much money, they'll probably "notice" you robbed them and kill you anyway.

@Swish second point: You "just got the answer"? Not only did you copy my old thread just when it had been quoted (hmm? coincidence?) in another thread; you took the idea from the FIRST PARAGRAPH

.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:22 pm

In medieval times, people kept their money in small bags which were often hanging from their belt. So it was quite easy for a thief to cut them off.

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:24 pm

Adano Eles wrote:In medieval times, people kept their money in small bags which were often hanging from their belt. So it was quite easy for a thief to cut them off.

Yes and the intelligent ones hid them in their cloak because they knew of this obvious fact.

Skaalib Drurr · Post by **Skaalib Drurr** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:25 pm

And the really intelligent ones carried no money