Illarion.org

Arr! I loved the old client. We could have made it more balanced, rather than try to make an entire new system.

Well anyway, im tired of arguing, since it apparently is useless.

It is to me great that one actually has to search out a fellow crafter to learn a craft. It gives a real reason to rp an apprentice ship to some one.
With minimal explination for some one I can smith basics I am sure I will find some one able to teach more advanced techiniques soon.

This item issue annoys me, the idea that martin or any one else turned armor into ingots to please themselves is stupid. It was a bug and had to be done as part of the games developement. We are what 2-3 weeks into a new build of the game and bitching cause we cant have plate armor
Of course they are old and rusty there are no decent smiths on the isle if they were brand spanking new what motivation would you have to seek out a real smith.
Seems to me the players who are really unhappy are baseing there enjoyment of the game purely on items and skill. All of which are part of the game but not the point of the game. A brief glance through the general board will tell you why the skills and items had to be trimmed back.
Read my earlier post to find my feelings on item loss and how i dealt with it.
Items and skills loss are not a problem with the game it is a side affect of developement I say this again.
If you look at fly spray the confuseing interface is being worked out as we moan about it.
Brian

Trying to fix the old system would be nothing more then patchwork.
Therefore a completely new system is always better. Just give the new system a try.

Fine. I will go elsewhere. I no longer enjoy the game. I feel that my RP quality has dropped a lot lately. I no longer care, and I feel it shows when I play. I'm not contributing anything to the game, and perhaps I make it worse when I play. I find that I no longer have any motivation to play.

Donal is just kidding. I won't let him go this way

No worries, I will annoy him in the messenger as long until he admits that he loves Illarion more than WoW and actually does so.

Please Gwyn, if he wants that, he wants that. No point in annoying him to death. It will only make him hate you/dislike you.

Misjbar wrote:Please Gwyn, if he wants that, he wants that. No point in annoying him to death. It will only make him hate you/dislike you.

Ever heard about something like 'kidding' ?

Sowwy. >.>

I dont understand at all why people are getting mad at people saying whats wrong with the game in a topic dedicated entirely to just that, Saying whats wrong with the game.

Go figure.

That us whats wrong with Illarion, nothing ever gets resolved, theres constant flame wars, no on understands anyhting and it leads to huge fights. That is why I miss the old Illarion when most anything went, sure it was lose RP but there was RP all the time. there are other lose RP games out there, but none like Illarion, I dont even consider games like Tibia RP. It used to be So easy to get skills (even though it was after the 10x) but I never even considered powergaming or training, there was too much to do. I allways had something to do, I'd sit around the campfire talk to people, farm right in town with everyone and have theives steal my cabbage. The only time I ever went to get skills was herb hikes with other hobbits; Fighters went on demon hunts. Those were the golden days of Illarion. I don't know exactly what made the game fall straight down to where it lies now, probably a combination of BOTH players and GMs, but I do know it was much more fun and I loved playing every minute of it. If you ask me Illarion never recovered from the drought, but you've heard that from me a million times.

If people would list real faults there would not be such an issue.
If some one says the game is not fun because i find the client to be X and Y.
I can fully appreciate peoples problems with the new crafting system...truly. I have stated to me this is not an issue and i like it.
Things turning into ingots should not be listed as a fault though, I say this again.
As to the state the game is in we had upwards of 13 players ealier and decent rp happening all over. The state this game is in a state of change not decay.

How ever what people can state as being currently wrong with the game comes to.
I dont have cool items,
I am not a master smith
I cant have a great warrior over night
Rusty weapons break "because now we have a great system of quality that adds so much value to the game"

There are some valid post's here, I refer to sians one were he listed the game as haveing lost its intrigue. Even Nilos feeling all the old players he enjoys have left. Arist saying there is no meat in the game. Pronon saying the game has lost its sparkle for him.
How ever I must add that much of what you have listed pronon is happeing in game at this very moment it is basically what we have been doing since the wipe.
Yet again today i was ingame and I saw it full of good old rp as it was pre-wipe. I do not think the game is in a bad state at all any more as long as we all stick with it and make it happen.
All of the issues we as players need to look at ways to adress, and most of them we can. First we need a strong economy and social structure..
Which is why all of us who love this game need to keep playing it and make that happen.
From there we can take it any were.
I should also point out i am biased I am hard core character role player who likes deep characters and cunning villans. So I dont expect my view to be an entire communitys.
Brian

I'm not talking Pre wipe at all, I didnt think Illairon was amazing pre wipe at all, im talking 2-3 years ago when the game was amazing. as far as I'm aware of you weren't even playing yet. The game was astounding when it was centrailized, I haven't seen anything like the old days since well...the old days. It may have been technically worse but as far as playing it was sheer joy.

that games state hasn't changed, it's gotten worse. thats that. I could care less about Items, infact Pronon didnt make a single ingot for atleast 6 months after I started playing him. The characters I have have little to no skills, Pronon was one of 2 characters to have a skill mastered, And Pronon was the only one to have more than 1 skill master which were Herblore (achived in about an hour) and Farming which I did in a large group. I take Roleplay over skill gaining and Item getting anyday, Its fun playing a rich guy with money to buy cool items (I did it with Pronon) but that doesn't make the game any worse and I dont htink thats what people are saying.

I tried to get a feel for what i saw as valid problems noted in this thread. I was not attacking your feelings. I was pointing out that we can only achieve your idea of a great game with an active full server.
I think my main question is, are peoples hearts in complaining or playing.
Lets get in there and RP "4th time i am saying it"
Brian

Pendar wrote:If people would list real faults there would not be such an issue.

Thanks.

Martin

I was Never tring to attack your feelings either. But the point of this entire thread is : to say what you think is wrong with Illarion. People are saying there opinions and getting yelled at for complaining, its pointless, its exactly as I said earlier, nothing ever gets resolved.

It's not getting yelled at for reasonable complaining.
It's getting yelled at for being stupid. That's a big difference.
If someone complains that there are bugs that is stupid: We do not implement bugs intentionally.
If someone complains about bugfixes, well... what should we do?
If someone claims that "nothing is resolved", what should I say, doing bugfixes at least 5 hours a day for 3 weeks now? Did I really resolve "nothing" so far?
If people complain about a too big map, well, that's kind of stupid.
If people complain about a too small map, well, that's kind of stupid.
If people say "there are not enough people online, therefore I do not come offline", that is stupid, they could have said "turn off Illarion please" as well.

There is constructive criticism and there is stupidism. This thread showed both.

If we ask for critical statements, we want you to think first. We do NOT want you to not think and post afterwards.

Martin

martin wrote:YOU ARE A TESTER.
YOU PLAY THE ALPHA VERSION OF A GAME.
GO FIGURE.

Again, I emphasize:
This is NOT a finished game. This is the alpha version of a game. You test it. If you want to play a finished, stable game (where you have no influence at all), go somewhere else. There are wonderful games out ther.

Martin

Thats great and all, but how can we test a system, where we get told to find out in game. How can you test something, if you don't even know how to turn it on, it would be like giving someone a car 100 years ago and telling them to test it. They didn't build it, they don't know what the smile to do with it, how can they test it?

That's a little devil's circle there itself. From what I've understood; the people who are constantly fixing the game and tuning it to how the players want it are the ones who have to make the necessary manuals for those things, so that too counts against their worktime and one thing gets in the way of the other.

Yes, Illarion has a problem, or quite a few. Some I could spontaneously think of are that the game doesn't have enough people working on it, the coordination for that amount of people, the patron company feeding the production with budget in the background, or players who pay for the game to the enterprise to motivate the responsible workers. I mean, not to say money would be a sole factor of motivation—although, think of the flipside of the implication—what motivation might they have had other than money to have taken so much bullshit for so long? Another problem I can think of is this lack of manpower being trampled all over by a bunch of parasites who enjoy their free game but contribute nothing to its backbone.

I'm not saying to suck up to these people just because they work for free, after all it's their own decision; or that these things justify any of them being offensive in response to a random mollycoddle's worthless input. In the contrary, you should be telling them where they fucked up. But from reading this thread I can soundly say I've read little specific critique as to what should be done better. Just as a different example, Gro'bul's post in the Proposals section concerning thread, would you disagree that's somewhat of a helpful proposal?

Okay, that all being said, what I miss lately in the game is not only the intrigues and that, but just plain and simple character drama. Yeah, the forum drama is amusing, but the lack of in-game drama is definitely rather disappointing.

And I'm not speaking of sword-swinging heroes and villains directing the day; a girl from a knightly family wanting into prostitution can spell drama too

Moathia wrote:Thats great and all, but how can we test a system, where we get told to find out in game. How can you test something, if you don't even know how to turn it on, it would be like giving someone a car 100 years ago and telling them to test it. They didn't build it, they don't know what the smile to do with it, how can they test it?

Now, that's a rather outdated accusion, don't you think?
Show me where someone in the past weeks told you to "find out in game". Show it to me.
Obviously a lot of people know a lot of things, go and ask them.

Martin

I love this game truely, its magnificent. I enjoy my rp and the rp with everyone else. i have been playing about a year now (the week before build 25 came out when the halfling woman wore the red dresses ^_^) and there is NO better community and rp ANYWHERE else!

Ive played many characters. Some mages, some fighters..ive played every race. With this character, Valerie, she is my first real non-skill person. i dont fret about when im going to achieve my next level of fighting..or magery..or craft. i rp and rp alot...as just a cute little girl. its fun. pendar and stephen baby me. everyone else takes care of me. i play the entertainer...i put smiles on characters faces that dont smile that much..i bring emotion and what not..i talk to every body! the first time i ever did that. with all my previous characters i tended to stay in same circles and only do that online-viewer thing to see who is on before i got on. no i just go up to someone and #me smiles "Hi my name is valerie, whats yours? Wanna be my friend?" and it goes from there.

Map-great, ive explored nearly the whole things between my different characters.

Rp- was pretty bad twords the begining of the wipe but its coming up

Gms- great, i love you all!

Monster speed- waaaay to fast for my tastes, between the trolls coming into town and trying to 'eat' poor val....*sniff sniff* not good, and the damn bandit that was posted up by the castle that ate at me all the wasy to town just to get a critical hit on my right next to pendar...psssh that was crap.

Item loss- was bad when i was playing my skill oriented characters, i was actually so pissed off at that i was cussing about 5 minuits.

@nilo- a few posts ago you were complaining about carpentry and not bieng able to make stuff , you need another tool, called a plane ^_^. alto of skills have changed with the order you ahve to do things and the items needed. talk to people, ask around. People will help.

online players- alto of people are on at different times. but if people always looks to see if a friend is on(by means of online viewer) when there friend is looking to see if they are on to decide whether they will get on or not, will anyone be on?

@martin- you have no idea how much i apreciate the time you have invested , if i could i would pay you and the rest of the team out of my own pocket for supplying us with this game. but unfortunatly im just a lowly teenager...a jobless one at that. but i think i can pay you with apreciation and my thankfullness of having this great game, if that is enough i dont know but its all i can offer at htis time.

@ the newbie complaints- i dotn knwo if im still concidered a newbie, but i think new people should be welcomed and not pushed away. everyone can be tought. if you dont give them a chance they wont be able to surprise you. PO pendar is a great example of a good addition to the community , he is a magnificent Roleplayer.

(im going to go to sleep , im making more and more typos as my eyes get heavier but i will add to this later. school...pssh...))

My complaint that I just thought of. That when you log in it doesnt tell you how many players are on. It used to and that was a great way of knowing that you could actually have somebody to rp with. I know you can use the player online thingy, and thats what I have been doing. But you know sometimes I just want to get ingame, and if you had the players online thing again it would be more feasible to do that.

You mean, instead of having a list on the homepage who is online, you want to have a message like "Welcome to Illarion. Have fun roleplaying and mind the rules. There are 25 other characters online."

The problem with the "Who is online" list is, that it acts as a lever. If there are few players on, not many players will join the game. But if there are many players on, more and more will join. Sadly, the first case happens more often than the second one.

So, what to do? Get rid of the "Who is online" list? Will that solve all our problems? Or make the "Who is online" list part of the client? So everyone who wants to find out what is going on ingame as to log in? There is a commando for the GMs that reveals all players online, would this be better?

I understand the use out of the homepage, saying who is online. This is usefull when you want to know if a specific person is online, because you have something planned out with them.

But the having of the number of people online is useful as well, when you just want to get into the game, and dont really care who is on. And dont want to go to the site to check.

And I dont think the GM command thing would be a good idea to hand over to the players. It can be to easily abused, for pg reasons, and other rp reasons. But thanks for the offer

Erart Ridoc wrote:And I dont think the GM command thing would be a good idea to hand over to the players. It can be to easily abused, for pg reasons, and other rp reasons. But thanks for the offer

The GM command tells you who is online
The home page tells you who is online

Where is the difference?

If the GM command can be "Abused" then so can the home page's "who's online" list.

To be honest, I cannot think of a reason why we need such a list that tells everyone who is online. I can think of many more reasons why not to have this list! It is all OOC knowledge;Your character would not know this. If you want to know if a character is online, go in game and ask around. This would increase player interaction and also the amount of players online.

In real life, how would you set up a meeting with a friend? Look on your "Who's in town" list? You would phone them, or the Illarion equlivelent, send them a "dove" (PM)

If it doesnt take much time to do, could we at least try it out for a few weeks?

Because the GM command can be abused much easier. (Types command) and now I know whoever is online.

(Log Off, or Alt Tab) (Go to website) (Go to players Online) and now I know whoever is online.

That is the diffrence.

And just so you all know, I never said get rid of the players online page. I said add a number of players online when you log in. Like it used to be

Erart Ridoc wrote:Because the GM command can be abused much easier. (Types command) and now I know whoever is online.

"Much easier". So you agree that the "players online" list on the website can be abused, but it takes maybe 5 - 10 seconds longer to do?

(Before the game loads, load up the illarion website's "players online")
While in game
Alt - Tab
F5
Now i know the players online

I still don't see the difference

The diffrence is when you Alt-Tab it the game has a chance of screwing up

I agree with Vindigan on this, the online player viewer is a silly thing. There are two people I know only irl whom I asked to check out Illarion one or the other time, they didn't play much, and one of the things both said they thought was an odd thing was the online player viewer. Mmh, sure, you could find some good reasons for the online player viewer, but when I think of it, only a bunch of mediocre or downright bad things come to mind.

Make that a feature of the client? Hell no, rather work towards making the "sending a dove" a feature of the client.

Seriously, my point is that the game already runs in full-screen mode so you do NOT use messengers or alt-tab to check the online player list. Not only would you be deconstructing a design ideal by making a freely accessible online player viewer list IN the client, you'd be running on a double-standard.

Online player viewer is a bad idea, all in all. Sure, it might work as a lever, but RPing is not about popularity contests. People who are OOC buddies and enjoy playing together will probably get set up over messengers before the game anyway. For the people who quickly say "the online player viewer is great!" or vouch for it to become a feature in the client, please consider these features are walking a thin red line between convenience and game atmosphere. I can rest assured saying alot of interesting game encounters would have never happened without the element of surprise; and things like these features, I believe, counter-act it, or even completely destroy it.

On the other hand, look, if everybody would insist on the online player viewer, then I'd like to see it be made a function of the client and go the full nine yards of convenience, or—and this is what I'd prefer—you eliminate this old fossil that has lost nothing in a serious RPG.

I am not looking for an online player veiwer. I dont want one of them added to the client. I was arguing against putting it into the client.

I want the old thing back that tells you There are 5 players currently online.

I dont want to know their names, I want to know how many people are online. And I want to be able to know that without going to the Home Page

Moirear Sian wrote:and one of the things both said they thought was an odd thing was the online player viewer.

What's so odd about it? Every single game (profit or non) that I have played online has had some form of online player viewer?

What's so odd about it?

How are you supposed to surprise a player with a character of yours if they can check out the char is online?
How are you supposed to RP a ranger/tracker if any shmo can just alt-tab and read the names of marks on a list, then explaining their knowledge of someone else's presence with comments like they can smell them, hear them, or other nonsense?
How exactly are you going to sneak through a town as a criminal if you have players monitoring the online player list and double their watch and halve their RP because they spot a wanted criminal's name in the list?

Just some spontaneous questions, spurred by many old annoying situations in game.