Illarion.org

Oh and if she wishes to roleplay an orphanage i can not see a problem with this,, if it is not a scam, which i hope it is, becuase it woul be a truely great scam, perhaps she could contact a GM for a certain amount of items to be collected for these children,, and when the Quota is met, perhaps a work force on a near by isle may hear of her kindness and build some of the orphanige,, And of course the GM's take the items.

Hell just food for thought ,, nitey nite

I don't see any problem with RPing an orphanage, either.
But it needs some backup, either from enough players and/or GM-support.
That was actually one of my central points, and you cooked it down to one paragraph.
Thanks Arist.

That fellas is what Doc Burlow had wanted to do. He was going to get the specifics from the gm's as to how much of what items were needed. But since everyone seemed to jump the gun and start bashing on us just because we did not openly say this IG, it kinda ruins the whole darn thing a bit, doesn't it. And the real pity of it all is that we may even lose and excellent RP'er because of all this.


Oh and by the way when do forests that are cut down regrow so quickly.
Some folks just need to realize that a perfect setup cannot be done in a game like this, but no one worried about how unreal that was either.

Just thought I would mention that to reinforce Sians original point.

Mia

Firstly i wasn;t the one who said ships full of children originally anyway. I was respeaking someone else's quote.

Secondly the edit problem is becaue I keep getting timed out when I am posting so I write, post, edit, till I am done. it is a hassle and I do not like it either. But I have yet to figure out why I time out so darn quickly.

Thirdly the "complaints" response was completely taken out of context.

Fourthly, I have no idea what time frame Doc was working with, let alone which gm's he was going to set this up with. I was holding the items because from an RP point it made more sense.
He seems to have limited time with which to game which I am sure slowed things down.

Fifthly because of all the hassles he has not even responded even to my inquiries. I am not even sure he is still planning on gaming due to all this interrogation and such.

And finally, because you all do not think any orhpans can exist IG because you cannot see them thenyou also missed Mia's comment on more than one occasion that the goods were also used for others as well, homeless, wounded, starving, poor, etc. Since these probably do not exist in your "real" IG either than I suppose none of the ideas about school/teaching/shelter/hospital should exist IG either.
Yeesh.

So now here I sit, holding the "goods" so to speak and taking the heat for a wonderful idea gone astray. And I cannot do much more than hope he responds soon, or try to continue this without him, or just let the "i dont trust this/and or/mia " attitudes win and drop the whole thing. Problem is if "Mia" drops this her whole credibility is totally shot and her whole character is ruined, so obviously that would NOT be my prefered choice. As is the idea for future folks to be more creative in their roleplaying. I would find it hard to beleive anyone else is going to want to try something like this after reading and watching IG all the harrasing it entails. If they do then my blessings and my sympathys to them whoever they are.

The dontions were never asked for by Mia but were freely given.
So no one was forced into it and no one will be forced to lose their things because now they are second guessing the idea's honesty because of the accusations that came from someone who changed their mind in a matter one a day for no apparent rhyme or reason.

SO........

If anyone has a problem with the donantions then feel free to come find me, try your best to be honest about what you gave since I cannot remember them all exactly and I will return it to you since, all them are still in a seperate set of chests. If you think you gave me something that for some reason is not there then I will find a way to replace it out of my own things or puchasing it with my own coins. I am getting fed up with all of all this also, and I am beginning to understand why Doc has not responded. The game and this idea are losing their whole "fun, flavorful" and "imaginitive RP" playability anyway, it is becoming more of a head -ache than an enjoyent.

It will be hard to return to Doc the 10 ingots he won in the Herb Contest from Lennier though, since he gave it to me the other day, because I have not seen or heard from him since then.




Mia

This is why you ask the gm's for information before starting something like this. Nanuk is on irc alot, surely she would know something about this subject since she and some others made moonsilver. You cannot just assume people will automatically accept whats not accually there, unless of course a gm says it is.

@Mia:

Mia Handur wrote:Thirdly the "complaints" response was completely taken out of context.

*raises a hand*
Guilty, your honor.
Yes, I ripped it out of context. Because stating that I need to complain in general had to be said. And I'm really going to beat this thread dead, until I get some straight answers. So I hope you're well-aware that anything from me in this thread from here on is not directed towards you, but towards the entire community.
Also, this goes way beyond the Orphanage story.


@the record:
I'm not making a scapegoat of anybody. If anything a martyr.
No, but seriously, am I attacking anybody with this all?
Nope.
I think it's a serious question that needs answering, and all so far was a bunch of beating around the bush.


@the skeptics:
If you think it's ridiculous to discuss the issue, then I don't know why we're RPing. If you think this is in no way related to PGing, I don't know why I'm still putting up with you.
I as a player spend (or waste?) time trying to obtain certain items to complement the RP. My character spends his time and resources to get them. Now you see, if I want my character to have something that is not part of the client (let's say, a pipe for smoking) I still obtain an item that is at least distantly similar (in the case of the pipe, a horn distantly reminds me of a pipe by the graphics). In the case of a pipe (mind you, a horn, according to the client), my character used it occasionally (via #me-commands, and leaving behind certain herbs) until he left it on someone's grave as a memento (and it of course eventually disappeared).
If you still now go saying this is all nonsense, then I shall some day create and play a character who's a wealthy merchant right off the start. Yes, he'll sell invisible goods and you can give him invisible money. And he'll also buy your invisible goods for invisible money - maybe even for an actual shovel and hammer, if it's your lucky day! Wouldn't that be swell?


@everybody:
I still say it, the things that are not there, aren't, but apparently I'm all alone here. Because the last time I played, Sian drank "Dragon's Breath" from an orc, which was, of course, another "invisible" liquor. On the other hand, I could have been handed an actual beer, been told it's "Dragon's Breath", read the according #me-descriptions, and play along with it. I played along and everything but I'm kinda getting iffed with this thread here!
(no offense to PO Turonga, it was some fun RP, and your #me-descriptions were cool . I'm just trying to get a point accross here.)

Which would you prefer?
• Incorporating your RP in the client
or
• Incorporating the client in your RP ?

Hopefully the former of the two options, as the latter would imply that you place your own jurisdictions over the actual game. Which you can't. There are simply rules. The rules are there so everybody has a guideline from where they can play. Of course it's no fun if people start breaking rules or abusing them, but it's even less fun when things are not defined by rules and you get lost in discussions of whether something was allowed or not.

Following the latter is like using a dialogue line stating "#me swings the sword clumsily" while the character is Master in the use of slashing weapons. Or like having your character tell another, just after having started the character newly, that he's a master carpenter in the lands he came from - although he can't carpenter anything better than a crummy staff and a wooden shield, when asked to do so.

Is asking people for a straight statement on this asking for too much?
I think it could be answered in a sentence or two.
i.e., "I believe the things that are not there, aren't."
or i.e. "C'mon you idiot, it's just a game, why are you making a fuss out of this?"

Help. I'm already discussing it with myself in the same post.


Edit:

Illarion RPG rules wrote:Try to overcome software limitations with fantasy. When there are no technical possibilities to tie someone up it doesn't mean that you can't do it using #me commands, if all players involved take part. Only because there is no beer, doesn't mean that you can't drink in the tavern till the lights go out. If someone is drunk, he can of course stagger around, even if the server doesn't force him to.
In another online game that I played once, there was no possibility to build houses. We piled up parcels to form walls and used flour to symbolize a sand coast. The result was a town with several dozend villagers, shops and a castle that reached over many screen widths (with towers, a throne room and many luxuries). So don't let yourself be limited.

I am new to the game also. I am trying to build my skills but am concentrating more on trade skills than combat. This is because it fits in with my character. He is not a fighter. Time in game doesnt really mean much.. I can only be online for a few hours a day...others may be on 24 hours a day. So it is hard to compare characters based on time ingame...unless you are going to start counting hours or minutes!
From a roleplaying point of view it could be considered as powergaming to write your character a background in which he or she is a mighty warrior. Far better to start out ordinary and the roleplay then increases in skills thus giving reasons for your character getting better. Unfortunately the system, like all systems, is not perfect and cannot cope with all situations unless there was 100% Gamemaster input.
A true rpg needs everyone to roleplay 100% to work unless there is a lot of regulating to say you can or cant do something. People will play the way they want and you either roleplay along as best you can or you ignore them and do your own thing. But people need to coopeerate in the roleplaying rather than worrying about being better than someone else at something.
Well thats my humble opinion anyway. I hope this rambling makes sense.

Mia and Burlow,

I don't think that the argument is that the idea is bad. In fact, many of us like the idea.

I think the argument is mainly because it wasn't implemented well. This is obvious, because people are confused about it and arguing. If there was no reason for people to do this, we'd know that the idea was implemented perfectly.

The question now is, is PO Burlow going to give up or are we as a community going to fix this?

The start to fixing things is for PO Burlow and Mia to post a new thread in the General section, describing OOC what they're implementing IC. If the orphange thing is a scam, then feel free to lie OOC also, because otherwise it would ruin the suprise.

Tell us how the items are used, where the orphange should be considered to be, and if it's fully built yet.

Don't, however, put it in a random building such as the Seahorse. Although the Seahorse isn't used by most players, I've used it for a long time for it's original purpose, as an Inn. Why should I all of a sudden have to pretend that there are children sleeping throughout the building when my character is drinking and talking with buddies?

Also keep in mind that the Seahorse belongs to a character. That character would not likely be happy that a bunch of homeless people and children are bunking up for free--especially when you consider that the upstairs is considered a private dwelling, while the downstairs only has a few rooms for rent--two specifically.

That's where we as a community come in. At that thread, we can reccomend ideas, but more importantly, we can read what's going on, and adapt what are characters are seeing as a result of that.

Yes , perhaps it was not implemeted perfectly but that was not intentional on Burlows part , and certainly not from mine. Innocent mistakes, unintentional miscommunications, and available time on line can, and often times do, affect game play.

I agree with RP'ing along with the flow of things and that is what I have been trying to do for Doc's Orphanage. He has finally replied to me, and the gm's have been notified by him, and a reply from them is being awaited.

However, as I have said before, and will state again, neither myself or Doc ever openly solicited these donations IG.

So can we just get on with the rp'ing, try to have fun, and see what happens?

This grows tiresome indeed.

Mia

Sits at his desk top and reads all the posts


DAng people.........i sugest you read the first 4 pages and actually talk about what is to be talked about. Well i dont think most the new people i have seen are power gaming cept a few orc that i have seen other than that nothing seems to bad to me.

Back to topic, Rith seems to be a PGer. I have faced willum, and my guy isn't too strong ingame, but he held up with willum for a while. I know willum isnt the greatest fighters but he eis good. But Rith got me in about 3-4 hits, while willum was about 8-9 maybe more. Considering this orc is all strength and very stupid.

Well lets continue from this.

PO of Grubarg, and many more

Mia you have absolutly no right to talk about "Mia bashing" in town you provoked me an orc who gladly gets her axe out and kills. Even when I got out my axe and siad I would cut your head off you just said "Your not worth the effort" I think that would be a little scary in real life having a large axe held up to your face knowing you might be dead in minutes. You cannot say "ther Mia bashing" then go around trying to invoke fights.

Grubarg Druth wrote:Back to topic, Rith seems to be a PGer.

But we still can't prove it.

Grubarg Druth wrote:I have faced willum, and my guy isn't too strong ingame, but he held up with willum for a while. I know willum isnt the greatest fighters but he eis good. But Rith got me in about 3-4 hits, while willum was about 8-9 maybe more. Considering this orc is all strength and very stupid.

Interesting comparison.
But you said it yourself. Your orc is very stupid. Combat is not only about strength.

I'd just like to throw another point of discussion into the round.

Isn't it PGing to create a new character, knowing all the technicalities of the game, and using these right off the bat?

Let me elaborate.
For example, in another thread, there was a discussion concering poisoning people. Now the character I've been playing, Sian, is unlikely to ever use poison to harm anybody. Hence he'll never learn the "art" of using poison. Now comes the aspect into play though, that PO Sian, me, does not even know how I would do it ig. But assuming I'd start a character some day who would use it, I'd have to learn how to do it ig, whenever that day would come.
My point is, what about those players who actually know every technicality of the game? Let's say they start a new character. They can set up their stats according to what they want (maxing the ones they'll need), and they'll undoubtedly be able to get together the entire equipment they (OOC) know they'll need to be more powerful than older characters in the same field. This is my big problem about it.
Why should your first character be completely clueless, while later characters of the same player always have optimal equipment and stats and seem to know everything about the island? Why is there a need for people to have characters that surpass older characters in the same field?
Answer: People still have trouble seperating OOC and IC. Seriously.
I'm not asking people to just forget everything they know about the client's possibilities when they start a new character. I'm merely asking for some consistency and logical steps in character development.
My character Sian leans towards fighting in skill focus, and even though I knew OOC that certain armors are better than others (depending on the individual circumstances), I did not carry this knowledge ig. I only started applying it once a mentor character told Sian IG and taught the character these things.
A five-day-old fighter character would not say this, imho "Oh, you're going to use an axe in our duel? Do you have some time for me to run back and don a plate mail?"

Very good points Sian.

Isn't it PGing to create a new character, knowing all the technicalities of the game, and using these right off the bat?

Perhaps in a way it is, but why would a 20 .. 30 (etc) year old char not know how to poison someone? It may be in the background of their char. However, you are correct that your char shouldn't know how strong the other chars are until he hears about it, or something happens to make them fight.

Hermie wrote:Perhaps in a way it is, but why would a 20 .. 30 (etc) year old char not know how to poison someone? It may be in the background of their char.

I agree. But.

Isn't it PGing to create a new character, knowing all the technicalities of the game, and using these right off the bat?