yeah

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sun May 30, 2004 4:57 pm

Galim wrote:you mean walking around and killing single enemys you find? sounds like what movement done in the past. isn't really fun

A bit more than that. My character and his "friends" generally like to use a number of tactics, unlike the Movement who only relied on brute force to get the job done.

Nartak Ironmaster · Post by **Nartak Ironmaster** » Sun May 30, 2004 4:57 pm

I have nothing against war, unless they just attack when most of our guards are online.

And i know Vahkos well enough to know he's no Movement Guy..

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:16 pm

that is the problem. such a war never ends. it will continue for ever. we walked up and defeated them, if we wouldn't stand there and guard they would just come back and it would continue. the next day we would have the same situation, and could attack again. and now, we stand there. and they jusr walka round and kills the single guys they met. really, how should such a war be roleplayed correctly?

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:21 pm

infact when val was in movement he never went around killing single enemies instead a troups of ten came and killed ones individually. Also since you attacked the castle val has had many chances to attack ones alone but didn't. Val and others are using tactics. Also i don't see if my char is hiding in the forest and sees one enemy pops out and attack...how is that bad?

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:21 pm

Switch the roles, would you want to lose Silverbrand?

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:23 pm

Galim wrote:that is the problem. such a war never ends. it will continue for ever. we walked up and defeated them, if we wouldn't stand there and guard they would just come back and it would continue. the next day we would have the same situation, and could attack again. and now, we stand there. and they jusr walka round and kills the single guys they met. really, how should such a war be roleplayed correctly?

The thing is, it wasn't a matter of a war for killing off a race or taking an item. Trollsbane took the last scrap of land that isn't associated with them, and pretty much kicked an entire kingdom out of their former home.

Imagine if we gathered enough forces to occupy and control Trollsbane before you guys moved first. Where would any of you go? Would we continue to occupy the city, never giving you chances to get it back within time? Nah, we, as players, aren't mean enough to do that. We would give you practically an infinite amount of chances to get it back, provided you roleplay it well and be patient about it (e.g, not moving in to 'control' a place while no guards or authorative figures are logged in). In real life, there's constant struggles for land; it's not something that ends after a bumrush.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:27 pm

no, of course not keikan. and i don't want to hold the castle forever. me as a player like the idea of two towns at the surface and two forces. but my character is a novice of irmorom. he cannot accept an undead leader in northerot. what should i do? iam bound to his role. if arkadia wouldn't be undead for him, he wouldn't have stopped caranthir to make that peaceagreement.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:31 pm

As slave to an imaginary figure you made yourself.
Thats not the way you should look at your characters.

In the end it is you who has the ultimate control.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:36 pm

Galim wrote:no, of course not keikan. and i don't want to hold the castle forever. me as a player like the idea of two towns at the surface and two forces. but my character is a novice of irmorom. he cannot accept an undead leader in northerot. what should i do? iam bound to his role. if arkadia wouldn't be undead for him, he wouldn't have stopped caranthir to make that peaceagreement.

Arkadia may or may not return to the game...and if, somehow, control is back in an ally's favor, it will probably be somebody else that is the monarch during Arkadia's absence.

That, or make your character a bit more passive. Sure, there's an undead queen far to the north. But there's also mummies in tombs near Trollsbane. And there's skeletons near the prison. Do you want to start a quest to get rid of the monster spawns?

Galim can acknowledge they exist, but so long as it doesn't bother him personally, he shouldn't have to care so much about Arkadia being an undead queen.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:41 pm

oh, that means you want me to have ooc thoughts influence on my ingame behaviour?

i have a role for my character, and i play this role. even if i think ooc that it isn't right. because i cannot play just that with my character what i like or want. that isn't the way it should be.

@bloodhearte
he is a novize, a holy guy. an undead creature is something unholy. something he must fight against it. the mummies are cursed guys. cursed by the gods, as far as i know. and the skeletons are evil guys to. because of that i fight them. just like i fight arkadia.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:45 pm

Galim wrote:oh, that means you want me to have ooc thoughts influence on my ingame behaviour?

i have a role for my character, and i play this role. even if i think ooc that it isn't right. because i cannot play just that with my character what i like or want. that isn't the way it should be.

@bloodhearte
he is a novize, a holy guy. an undead creature is something unholy. something he must fight against it. the mummies are cursed guys. cursed by the gods, as far as i know. and the skeletons are evil guys to. because of that i fight them. just like i fight arkadia.

Technically, our OOC thoughts constantly influence IC. After all, it is because of these thoughts that our character are the way they are.

I'm just saying that, in order to no longer have such an OOC dilemma, you make your character slightly more passive. It can fix a whole world of troubles for ya.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:57 pm

also to bring up the point about attackingone person at a time. Ofcourse taht is the most logical way. Attack head on with triple amount of opposers or weaken their forces slowly?

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:08 pm

he cannot accept an undead leader in northerot. what should i do? iam bound to his role. if arkadia wouldn't be undead for him, he wouldn't have stopped caranthir to make that peaceagreement.

That's like saying that Kasume hates orcs (which he actually does), so now he wants to over throw the entire Bloodskull organization. Just really sounds arrogant for your type of character Galim...

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:09 pm

why not? if that is his role. but orcs are not that seldom like undead rulers <_<

skeletons and mummies are lesser undeads. my character fights them, but they are like insects. but an undead ruler of a land is a bigger danger. it is much more than just a mummie or skeleton. he will work much more to get rid of that ruler.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:10 pm

Just really sounds arrogant for your type of character Galim...

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:13 pm

So? It is his role. He is a priest, and not okay with undead, especially those that he has supposed to have destroyed by himself.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:13 pm

he is a novize. what do you await from him? holy peoples like him are the natural enemys of undead and unholy creatures and beings.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:15 pm

Kasume fought an entire war that sent his world to hell. And he fought orcs. Now, Kasume doesn't go around, killing every orc he sees.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:18 pm

Why is that? What is the point that you are trying to make? Because your character is: 1.) forgiving 2.) coward 3.) strange 4.) combination of the previous three.. Every other character should also be? No. Luckily some have morals and agendas which they will not abandon.

Kasume · Post by **Kasume** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:27 pm

Caranthir the great wrote:Why is that? What is the point that you are trying to make? Because your character is: 1.) forgiving 2.) coward 3.) strange 4.) combination of the previous three.. Every other character should also be? No. Luckily some have morals and agendas which they will not abandon.

No, he isn't an arrogant little bastard. Sometimes you just got to let things go. Galim is not the type to be rammy. Because mastering your blacksmithing, takes patience. Although what Galim did, was very rammy. To just attack an entire town with people living in it, because he disliked the leader.

So what if he was a priest. Someone of that great of knowledge and power should not be of a rammy type.

Also, this is besides the fact that Galim is a super preist, blacksmithing, bash animal character. It's like two opposites bashing heads with his character. It's just really... Well... messed up (in kind words).

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:32 pm

I did not say, that you are allowed to give ooc knowledge to you character, to make this point clear.

But I do say, that you should not blindly follow your character, or he/she will turn more or less into a empty shell of what he/she was once.

Always check if dont see your character and his options to one sided.

To being a novice of Irmorom:
I fail to see where his followers are cursaders against the undead.
In fact they are craftman, smiths and merchants.

You pray to Irmorom for:
"Good business, making of things, protection when working. God of most Blacksmiths, other craftsmen, merchants and dwarves."
(From Moonsilver)

See my point?
Always check on the decissions of your characters twice.
Maybe there is a backdoor to avoid these kind of troubles we have now.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:44 pm

i fail to see why a novize of irmorom have just the right to be that way you wrote. of course irmorom is the god of smithery, and merchants. but he is a god. and galim is a novize, and later perhaps a priest. a full priest. just because his god is god of craftmen and merchants doesn't mean that he is not allowed to have a crudge against undead and evil in the name of his god. he is a priest (wel, or novice), and he is a dwarf. and as that, he will fight the undead and the evil. and just because his god is god of craftmanship don't force him to pray just for that, and have no interests in anything else.

@kasume

you judge my roleplay with galim? you say iam a kind of a powergamer? i ar, comeone. i must be grandmaster in smithery to become a priest, and galim is a dwarf. dwarves are fighters. they are a race of born warriors. and since when is he a super priest? he is just a novize, with no power. all he can do is pray.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:46 pm

You make assumtions without actually being there: I see that we are making progress.

Sometimes you just got to let things go. Galim is not the type to be rammy. Because mastering your blacksmithing, takes patience. Although what Galim did, was very rammy. To just attack an entire town with people living in it, because he disliked the leader.

So what if he was a priest. Someone of that great of knowledge and power should not be of a rammy type.

So, basically you are saying that: "If you learn how to play guitar, you won't get mad if someone pokes you to the eye with a pencil, because mastering the art of guitar-playing takes patience. If you get mad, then there is something wrong with you."

Do you base any of this on anything else except on your own opinion? Actually, if you replaced the "knowledge" with "Wisdom", I might agree to an extent. However, claiming that powerful and knowledgeable people could not be "rammy" is simply untrue. This kind of people are not supposed to hate or dislike things? Nonsense.

This, added to the fact that everyone has different things which make them to go ballistics, you aren't really making much sense to me.

Anyways, as far as the dwarves are concerned, they don't see themselves as agressors. There is a perfectly reasonable explanation behind this.

Keikan

To being a novice of Irmorom:
I fail to see where his followers are cursaders against the undead.

I also fail to see, where his followers are denied quests against the undead.

Anyhow, I don't see any problem with this sitiuation as it was Galim who held the ceremony of burning Arkadia in the first place. Seeing her to be brought back alive should, in my opinion, bring up somekind of anger or resentment towards the sitiuation.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:49 pm

it wasn't him. he just lead the ceremony against nerevar. but as far as i can remember he helped to build the stack to burn her <_<. well, and it was him who put the ash from her into the river

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:49 pm

I dont understand then why your character choses this god in the first place than.
If your character mainly opposes the undead in the realm of the living, than the religion of Cherga would be more appealing to him.

In a polytheistic world you always tend to chose the god(s) that affect your livining, personalty and desires (of your character) most.

And if you choose a god, and want to become a priest, than you devote your life (your characters life) to his word, likes and dislikes.
And if this does not include special things you tend to ignore them.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:51 pm

oh, and i want to say. galim was never rammy. he just helped the others in their fights against the north. it wasn't him who said they should attack them and take them down.

@keikan
that means just because imrorom doesn't says "undead are evil, fight them" means he shouldn't do that? well, he don't says "ignore the undead" too.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:54 pm

Keikan Hiru wrote:I dont understand then why your character choses this god in the first place than.
If your character mainly opposes the undead in the realm of the living, than the religion of Cherga would be more appealing to him.

In a polytheistic world you always tend to chose the god(s) that affect your livining, personalty and desires (of your character) most.

And if you choose a god, and want to become a priest, than you devote your life (your characters life) to his word, likes and dislikes.
And if this does not include special things you tend to ignore them.

But this all comes down to what the character believes to be matching the will of his god. Religion is throughtout times the most widely used excuse for driving one's own interest and agenda behind the mask of righteousness.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:58 pm

But than you should name the "right" religion.

It sounds strange if your character run shouting in the battle:
"In the name of Oldra, your blood will be spilled tonight !"

"In the name or Irmorom, god of the smiths and merchants, I will drive you back in the pits where you emerged from, undead creature."

Galim,
if your characters god does not send you out to banish the undead on the earth, the true prists dont tend to walk arround and kill them in his name.

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Sun May 30, 2004 6:59 pm

who says that he mainly oppose the undead? i never said that. you said that. it isn't the main oppose, but one of them. galim is "holy". an undead is an "unholy" creature. priests are fighting the undead, every priest. not just the cherga-priests.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun May 30, 2004 7:10 pm

Keikan Hiru wrote:But than you should name the "right" religion.

It sounds strange if your character run shouting in the battle:
"In the name of Oldra, your blood will be spilled tonight !"

"In the name or Irmorom, god of the smiths and merchants, I will drive you back in the pits where you emerged from, undead creature."

Why? Theoretically suggesting that the character used religion as smokescreen, he should have shouted:
"In the name of Irmorom, let us destroy that foul beast!"
"Defiler of our faith! In the name of Irmorom, face your destiny for the last time!"
"Brothers, let us annhilate the unholy zombie, brought to life by the dark powers! Those same dark powers that fight against everything that our mighty god stands for!"

Just look at any religion, the original message gets twisted and turned as the time passes, to match the will of whoever happens to be in charge at the brief moment.

Dwarves and Irmorom are a special case, in my eyes. Only thing compareable is perhaps the Moshran-Orc relationship. It's not only religion, it's a thing that binds the race together. Hence, anything that might be seen as a threat to the religion, is seen as threat to all dwarves, and anything that threats the dwarves, is seen as a threat to the god also.