Magic Discussion

[Nalzaxx]

No, but then its not fun clicking 5 times to cast a spell which instantly pops up. Nor is it fun to instantly have a spell pop up on you.

[Cassandra Fjurin]

Not every sense of realism brings game fun or is good for the game. We all should not forget that.

yes especially not ruin the power or fun of the chars of some players.

Yes i understand some of the critic points. But i see also only people crying who lost some of their powers. Which isn't so.

Currently we cant make magic stronger because ist is a bit overpowered. Some simple spells are so awful unfair because the person who gets casted can't do anything against them. In my eyes also some simple spells like the fireball should make much more damage. But currently this cant be done, because of this lack. And yes i also agree that an int 3 Warrior as high its magic resistance is, shouldn't be able to block one single spell. Or only very bad casted spells. I think magic should be the best way to kick out overpowered warriors. But if such a warrior is in close combat with a magican, the magican is death, finito out. Or the magican has a way to flee.

Currently some spells can be abused in an unfair way. If the magican is in close combat we instant teleport ourself or the fighter away and cast again in Machine gun way, different spells on him.

[Damien]

A single, normal mage, should always win against a single fighter or two. A powerful, talented mage should even be able to defend sucessfully against more than three or four fighters.
But without any support, a mage will always loose against several fighters, or be forced to flee.
Mages are quite rare, and to get magic ingame needs lots of RP. It should stay that way.
Noone has magic resistance yet, this adds to the thing.

[Arameh]

I agree with cassandra, but on the opposite I think fieballs are too strong, or at last too fast, they can machinegun them and they remove minimum 1/3 healt from a good mage.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Currently we cant make magic stronger because ist is a bit overpowered. Some simple spells are so awful unfair because the person who gets casted can't do anything against them. In my eyes also some simple spells like the fireball should make much more damage. But currently this cant be done, because of this lack.

Um, magic don't should be stronger! god, no, that is for sure not what i want to say. Also the normal fireball should not be stronger. A beginner mage like meriel kills every creature with three simple fireballs, and that cost her not even much mana.

I would even say the spells should be made weaker. not in their damagepower at all, but in the WHEN.

See, you learn a spell at its minimum damage, and while you get more skills the damage the spell does increases up to a maximum. The problem in my eyes is, you reach the maximum too early. The skill range between minimum damage and maximum damage is not enough.

Like the fireball. 15 % skill and you can kill everything with three fireballs. 15 %, thats novice, beginner. With 50 % skill, average skill, a good mage can take down 80 % damage from anything it meets with a single spell. That should be master level, not average one.

I think the skillrange should be wider. To make the maximum damage should need a higher skill than now. the maximum damage through a ra kel qwan should just a mage with a masterfull skill be able to do.

[Arameh]

Currently we cant make magic stronger because ist is a bit overpowered. Some simple spells are so awful unfair because the person who gets casted can't do anything against them. In my eyes also some simple spells like the fireball should make much more damage. But currently this cant be done, because of this lack.

Um, magic don't should be stronger! god, no, that is for sure not what i want to say. Also the normal fireball should not be stronger. A beginner mage like meriel kills every creature with three simple fireballs, and that cost her not even much mana.

I would even say the spells should be made weaker. not in their damagepower at all, but in the WHEN.

See, you learn a spell at its minimum damage, and while you get more skills the damage the spell does increases up to a maximum. The problem in my eyes is, you reach the maximum too early. The skill range between minimum damage and maximum damage is not enough.

Like the fireball. 15 % skill and you can kill everything with three fireballs. 15 %, thats novice, beginner. With 50 % skill, average skill, a good mage can take down 80 % damage from anything it meets with a single spell. That should be master level, not average one.

I think the skillrange should be wider. To make the maximum damage should need a higher skill than now. the maximum damage through a ra kel qwan should just a mage with a masterfull skill be able to do.

Sounds logic to me.

[Nalzaxx]

Call me a cynic but it sounds to me like you're just trying to put distance between yourself and other mages who don't have as much time to powergame.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

I would make my own char weaker, Nalzaxx. Maybe you should stop thinking i will just the best for my char. My char is right now at that middle skill, and can cast the ra kel qwan and ra kel qwan dun spells with maximum damage. Would the skillrange be changed like suggested by me, my char would become weaker. What would be more fitting to her medium skill in that magic school.

[Cassandra Fjurin]

I thought a bit about learning magic or better increasing skill than cast and cast without sense.

We can include a theoretical learning.
You can go and read books "how to cast firespells without burning your fingers" "firespells for dummys" "firemagic the one and only" etc

doing that you get a skill theoretical Firemagic.

if you have a high theoretical wisdom about a spelltype the chance to gain skill in that field is increased drastically. But with every spell casted the theoretical wisdom skill goes down. Which also includes the chance to gain skill in that magic type decreases also

[Keikan Hiru]

A nice idea, however I would rather see this applied to every skill.

[Arameh]

A nice idea, however I would rather see this applied to every skill.

Well, its good for magic, but I dont think we should need to read to be able to leanr fighting..

[Keikan Hiru]

Why not?
I had an instruction book for "Taekwon-Do" as well as for "buissness controling".

[Samantha Meryadeles]

if you have a high theoretical wisdom about a spelltype the chance to gain skill in that field is increased drastically. But with every spell casted the theoretical wisdom skill goes down. Which also includes the chance to gain skill in that magic type decreases also

And through reading the same books again you can raise your wisdom skill again? or does it work just one time and that for the beginning?

This way warriors and craftmen with intelligence get a better chance. they can learn better and higher the skill, and so learn also in practice faster than the craftmen and warriors with few brainpower. a nice advantage for those giving the chars some intelligence

[Arameh]

You need to think that some characters cant read (I think so...), and then thats ok if they dont become mages, but any dumass can become fighter..

[Arameh]

if you have a high theoretical wisdom about a spelltype the chance to gain skill in that field is increased drastically. But with every spell casted the theoretical wisdom skill goes down. Which also includes the chance to gain skill in that magic type decreases also

And through reading the same books again you can raise your wisdom skill again? or does it work just one time and that for the beginning?

This way warriors and craftmen with intelligence get a better chance. they can learn better and higher the skill, and so learn also in practice faster than the craftmen and warriors with few brainpower. a nice advantage for those giving the chars some intelligence

I already see a flame war coming from "maxed" fighters (thoses having 3 intelligence), and craftsman, thoses that made characters with low int cause it was useless before then already suffer from it, because intelligence raise the speed of learning of every skils.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

It would be just a boost for the beginning. Smarter chars would have an easier and quicker start. at some point it would be than for both, smart and dumb chars, the same chances

[Arameh]

What do you mean? Im not sure I understand it quite well..

[Cassandra Fjurin]

if you have a high theoretical wisdom about a spelltype the chance to gain skill in that field is increased drastically. But with every spell casted the theoretical wisdom skill goes down. Which also includes the chance to gain skill in that magic type decreases also

And through reading the same books again you can raise your wisdom skill again? or does it work just one time and that for the beginning?

This way warriors and craftmen with intelligence get a better chance. they can learn better and higher the skill, and so learn also in practice faster than the craftmen and warriors with few brainpower. a nice advantage for those giving the chars some intelligence

I already see a flame war coming from "maxed" fighters (thoses having 3 intelligence), and craftsman, thoses that made characters with low int cause it was useless before then already suffer from it, because intelligence raise the speed of learning of every skils.

Sorry but we have mentioned it often enough that some things will change. And its not the first time that int will be used for skillraising. And in the next few days it will be so, not about box, the skillgain will be redone and chars with higher int will learn faster than chars with low int. And those who start to cry about that you don't know that. Wrong.... you should know that. We have never made a secret about such things that some stats will be more important in the future.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

if the books boosts a theoretical skill, and if that skill raises the chances to learn the skill to which it belongs through doing it, and if through doing that the theoritcal skill gets lowered, there will be than one day when the theoretical skill is no more, and you have the same chance to get better like those who started without that theoretical skill, or with a lower one.

[Arameh]

Well, I thought intelligence already affected in learning anyway, but I dont really notice it with Arameh (yeah, hardly to believe, he has 8 intelligence, which is high compared to other warriors), anyways...we will see I guess.

[Galahan]

Well, my warriors always have 3 essence in like 3 intellect so...

[Cassandra Fjurin]

Well, my warriors always have 3 essence in like 3 intellect so...

and ig do you act like an int 3 warrior? If so, congratulations then you are one of the 1% which do that if not welcome to the 70% percent of self made "Damn Im a good rper but don't act like my stats are"

or the other 39% of "I really like to set my stats fair but then my char can't act in his role because my char has no chance to be a normal fighter with this stats against all the other overpowerd fighters"

or to the 10% who asks now.... where has cassandra learned calculation of percentage?

[Sess'sth]

Well, my warriors always have 3 essence in like 3 intellect so...

and ig do you act like an int 3 warrior? If so, congratulations then you are one of the 1% which do that if not welcome to the 70% percent of self made "Damn Im a good rper but don't act like my stats are"

or the other 39% of "I really like to set my stats fair but then my char can't act in his role because my char has no chance to be a normal fighter with this stats against all the other overpowerd fighters"

or to the 10% who asks now.... where has cassandra learned calculation of percentage?

I'm one of those last 10%... 1+70+39+10...

[Ullyatth Leader]

Well, my warriors always have 3 essence in like 3 intellect so...

and ig do you act like an int 3 warrior? If so, congratulations then you are one of the 1% which do that if not welcome to the 70% percent of self made "Damn Im a good rper but don't act like my stats are"

or the other 39% of "I really like to set my stats fair but then my char can't act in his role because my char has no chance to be a normal fighter with this stats against all the other overpowerd fighters"

or to the 10% who asks now.... where has cassandra learned calculation of percentage?

Yeah, that 10% should be 100%!
Anyway, William is like his stats. He's about average. In fact I roleplay him much weaker than his stats show.

[Nalzaxx]

Especially in terms of intelligence.

*snigger*

[Galahan]

Well, my warriors always have 3 essence in like 3 intellect so...

and ig do you act like an int 3 warrior? If so, congratulations then you are one of the 1% which do that if not welcome to the 70% percent of self made "Damn Im a good rper but don't act like my stats are"

or the other 39% of "I really like to set my stats fair but then my char can't act in his role because my char has no chance to be a normal fighter with this stats against all the other overpowerd fighters"

or to the 10% who asks now.... where has cassandra learned calculation of percentage?

Yes i do act like 3 intellect. If anyone knows me well and my characters then they would know.

[Adano Eles]

Uhm... http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... php?t=9047

You set 3 Points to ...

Intelligence:
You have huge problems when it comes to using your brain. You cannot form complex sentances and even have trouble using more than one word at a time.
Reading and writing is something you will never learn.

[Korwin]

The only way you're going to get a sort of balance is to enforce that certain situations will be beneficial to mages, and certain situations will be beneficial to fighters.

One musn't forget that fighters already have certain advantages over mages, and you don't want to simply tip the scales over to the fighters.

In an instance where there is forced proximity (indoors, or in a cave) a clever fighter is going to be able to duck around a corner, and ambush the mage. The fight's over before it began.

I don't know how many mages have had a shot at it, but I doubt they have the same ability as fighters to kill ogres, skeletons, and zombies for the same sustained period. Come to think of it, a mage isn't going to have any chance against the sort of multiple opponents you encounter near the major monster spawns.

Although fighters don't have any ability to withstand magic, neither do mages, but fighters can survive meelee attacks and generally have higher constitution.

Becoming a fighter is far easier. Talk about the huge amounts you've trained as much as you want, but mages get their abilities from someone else they may only meet infrequently, their skill cap (seemingly) gets hit sooner, and they gain less skill before they level up. Awhile ago (months) my mage character, with mages stats, had a shot at fighting zombies. I went at it for a week or two, and his parry skill is still higher than any of his magic skills.

Finally, the capability of fighters to make money is far greater. Claim all you want that mages can make money from the food spell, but it's nothing compared to the money fighters can make from the 'loot' they get from some of the monsters.

As for the issue of balance, mages being disrupted by being stabbed in the gut sounds like a good idea to me.

My golden suggestion, make the game month, or even the time of day, affect the potency of spells. That certainly adds another element to magic, and gives fighters advantages at certain times, if they do their homework. Mage teachers even have something to both research, and then teach to their students.

Finally, why shouldn't armour affect the damage recieved from spells? It would give fighters a bit of a leg up, but still allow mages to terrorize craftsmen and wolves. You may say it's not realistic, but I'd say that most coverings give you some sort of advantage against fire, ice, and anything else in the mix. Heat doesn't diffuse immediately thoughout metal, so being incased in plate mail when you're hit with a fireball WILL help you out. What about lighting you say? The shell effect. You can even extend it and claim that the electric field created by moving a conductor through a magnetic field (armour through the field of the planet) weakens magic, or some garbage like that (Martin is going to mock me.)

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Um...if you wear a junk of metal and a lightning hits you you are more toast than without metal

[Nalzaxx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_ca ... cage_works

Or not.