@Mishrack First, posting such posts "do you know how annoying you three are?" is ITSELF a very annoying post. Needless to say it is also useless AND unhelpful to the discussion at hand. Please refrain from posting such things in the future! If you wish to rudely comment on something that has nothing to do with the thread do it through private messaging at least.
Note: My name is Elaralith not "Elarith". Thank you.
@Tyrth Coshi Remember, if firestarting was a skill, and people repeatedly set fires just to increase that skill that is powergaming and against the rules! Following your argument why don't we have no skills at all as having any skill there would be people that repeatedly worked at the skill to increase it? By the way paper did not exist in the form we know it as today in the medieval times. Paper was very expensive and treasured. People would NOT have used it to start fires...that is why books in illarion are so expensive!
Campfires
Moderator: Gamemasters
@Tyrth
You are right starting a fire is fairly easy when you have something to start it with and dry wood. The starting material does not have to be paper though, pine needles and pine cones are even better than paper.
Also leaves and lint work well. There are also some Thorn bushes that I use when camping that go up like gasoline even when freshly cut.
If it is this easy for us to do it just once in awhile, imagine how easy it would be for someone who's life centered around it all their life.
And who says they had to use fresh wood. They could find trees laying on the ground that had been down for awhile.
You are right starting a fire is fairly easy when you have something to start it with and dry wood. The starting material does not have to be paper though, pine needles and pine cones are even better than paper.
Also leaves and lint work well. There are also some Thorn bushes that I use when camping that go up like gasoline even when freshly cut.
If it is this easy for us to do it just once in awhile, imagine how easy it would be for someone who's life centered around it all their life.
And who says they had to use fresh wood. They could find trees laying on the ground that had been down for awhile.
@ Elaralith:
If your complaint is that the wood is too fresh to start a fire then roleplay drying it. Leave it out for a while in the desert or sun. Stick it in your depot for some amount of time until you decide its dry. You don't have to have something programmed into the game just to roleplay. Use your imagination to make the game better and don't force other people to do work they don't need to do because you have to see your ideas turned into reality for everyone else. If someone else wants to roleplay starting a fire with 'fresh' wood they should be able to. You CAN NOT make every action that would take place in life a skill or the game will not be a game anymore but rather a tedious routine, and endless list of tasks and barriers that have to be overcome to do anything thus eliminating the actual roleplaying facet of the rpg. If something requires a lot of skill to do I think it should have a skill associated with it but since you've already admitted that this should be a skill that is learned rather quickly why bother? You can do that on your own by picking up pine needles and drying your own logs. Act it out and it will be even more exciting and rewarding than having a little bar show up on your screen and turning red and having a few logs not turn into a fire, which by the way wouldn't be destroyed. So it would be pointless to fail. The logs wouldn't be consumed or destroyed if you didn't make a fire. They may degrade slightly but they would still be there. This is why you should just roleplay this and leave the idea on the shelf for the future if there is ever going to be an 'every-day-life' skill as the one person suggested, which is also just adding to the tediousness of the game and making it worse. The acts that need skill associated with them now the most in a rp sense are using the loom more so than the spinning wheel but that could also have a skill required if need be.
If your complaint is that the wood is too fresh to start a fire then roleplay drying it. Leave it out for a while in the desert or sun. Stick it in your depot for some amount of time until you decide its dry. You don't have to have something programmed into the game just to roleplay. Use your imagination to make the game better and don't force other people to do work they don't need to do because you have to see your ideas turned into reality for everyone else. If someone else wants to roleplay starting a fire with 'fresh' wood they should be able to. You CAN NOT make every action that would take place in life a skill or the game will not be a game anymore but rather a tedious routine, and endless list of tasks and barriers that have to be overcome to do anything thus eliminating the actual roleplaying facet of the rpg. If something requires a lot of skill to do I think it should have a skill associated with it but since you've already admitted that this should be a skill that is learned rather quickly why bother? You can do that on your own by picking up pine needles and drying your own logs. Act it out and it will be even more exciting and rewarding than having a little bar show up on your screen and turning red and having a few logs not turn into a fire, which by the way wouldn't be destroyed. So it would be pointless to fail. The logs wouldn't be consumed or destroyed if you didn't make a fire. They may degrade slightly but they would still be there. This is why you should just roleplay this and leave the idea on the shelf for the future if there is ever going to be an 'every-day-life' skill as the one person suggested, which is also just adding to the tediousness of the game and making it worse. The acts that need skill associated with them now the most in a rp sense are using the loom more so than the spinning wheel but that could also have a skill required if need be.
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Tyrth Coshi
- Posts: 14
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Elaralith, I dont belive I mentioend anything about powergaming or making firestarting a skill. Why even bring up powergaming? it just distracts form the point.
Also, you are correct, paper was expensive and rare and wouldnt have been used to start fires, which is WHAT I MENTIONED I belive... if you referback to my previous post, you will see that there....
Niniane, you are entirely correct baout the tedious factor. I belive I epxlained by view on taht pretty well in my previous post.
-=-
Finnally I'd just like to restate my point: Firestarting should not be a skill, however it may be something which is encompassed by another, more general skill, like an outdoorsy skill that a Ranger would have. it could account for your profviciency at several misc skills not worthy of mention by themselves.
-=-
Also, Perhaps as Croket mentioned the use of leaves & thorn bushes, perhaps all that is needed is a "starter" material, just a bit of stuff that would be used with the set fire pit to start the fire. That may be all that's required and would make it one step more time consuming for those whom like to set 20 fires just to get pot ash. The rest we can make up for with good old RP Fluff 'n Stuff.
PS. Croket - Just because a tree is lying on the ground, does not make it dry either, ESPECIALLY in the swampy/wetlandish areas (like the UP). I'd say aat least half the time it's as wet as freash wood and even if not, it is ussually punky and rotten because it has been sitting so long so it isnt all that useful for fires. However, if you look hard enough you ussually can pick upa few good pieces of wood for a fire. Thorn bushes eh? Hmm.. I hadnt thought of that, I shall try it some time.
Also, you are correct, paper was expensive and rare and wouldnt have been used to start fires, which is WHAT I MENTIONED I belive... if you referback to my previous post, you will see that there....
Niniane, you are entirely correct baout the tedious factor. I belive I epxlained by view on taht pretty well in my previous post.
-=-
Finnally I'd just like to restate my point: Firestarting should not be a skill, however it may be something which is encompassed by another, more general skill, like an outdoorsy skill that a Ranger would have. it could account for your profviciency at several misc skills not worthy of mention by themselves.
-=-
Also, Perhaps as Croket mentioned the use of leaves & thorn bushes, perhaps all that is needed is a "starter" material, just a bit of stuff that would be used with the set fire pit to start the fire. That may be all that's required and would make it one step more time consuming for those whom like to set 20 fires just to get pot ash. The rest we can make up for with good old RP Fluff 'n Stuff.
PS. Croket - Just because a tree is lying on the ground, does not make it dry either, ESPECIALLY in the swampy/wetlandish areas (like the UP). I'd say aat least half the time it's as wet as freash wood and even if not, it is ussually punky and rotten because it has been sitting so long so it isnt all that useful for fires. However, if you look hard enough you ussually can pick upa few good pieces of wood for a fire. Thorn bushes eh? Hmm.. I hadnt thought of that, I shall try it some time.
Last edited by Tyrth Coshi on Tue Feb 11, 2003 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
There should be different types of wood ... Firewood is usually fallen or dead branches, or just poor quality wood. Wood used in a harp or bow (etc.) would be good quality wood that you have just from a living tree.The best solution I can get out of all this is to not necesarily make firestarting a skill but require more materials instead of just wood.
- tinderbox
- starting material
- wood
If you got all these then you can make a campfire.
The tinderbox should be expendable and not last forever though.
Also lets remember this is a game in the making. Some of the programmers may already have a lot of this in mind and just not implemented yet.
- tinderbox
- starting material
- wood
If you got all these then you can make a campfire.
The tinderbox should be expendable and not last forever though.
Also lets remember this is a game in the making. Some of the programmers may already have a lot of this in mind and just not implemented yet.
i really dont think this should be such a big deal. Campfires are so minor, there only use is for RP and baking. Why make RP'ing harder? you can just say #me uses tinders to light the wood and getting ready to bake something is already hard as it is and if it was a skill to make fires wouldnt the costs of logs raise? I dont think this is at all a big deal for such a minor thing
I would just like to reffer to Ninianes last post, that should about sum this up excellent points! This game is very much made by the ones playing it while they play and I think firestarting is a minor issue really. We would be better off focusing on the existing skills in my opinion as they are just a bit more unrealistic than making fires. Just take wood crafting where you chop down a tree in a millisecond and then instantly get logs from that tree and use them all to make a single staff...it is not very likley and holds little realism but it makes for easier gaming and more time spent roleplaying so it may not be a bad thing really. So basically because we make something a skill to learn will not improve the realism of the game very much unless it is made very real wich could make the game very hard. Noone makes a fire in the wood in under 15 minutes I can bet, nor would anyone chop down more than 20 trees in a full days work using an axe....
this game would be terrible if everything in the illarion was realistic, it would take to long to do almost anything and then it will become boring. No game should have total realism. Think about, you cut down 20 logs in a full day of work log prices will be sky high and carpenters will be angry because they failed 8 times out of the 20. As long as the game is has a realistic sense it will be fine
Yes, I realized this was a minor issue when I proposed this, but I am working at present on coming up with proposals that affect illarion in a minor way...Proposals that affect in a major way are sometimes not possible and unlikely to be done anytime soon (e.g. "see what you wear") Adding skills is under the "easier done" implements and that is why I have been proposing such things.
@Ellaron Hmm....then people would constantly chop down trees. No...not the forests!
@Crocket Hm...if a skill is not made for firestarting then requiring a tinderbox to start a fire is the next best thing I suppose. Good idea.
@Hermie Different types of wood...very interesting! We could then have different type of trees and different trees could be used for different purposes. Perhaps dry wood could appear randomly in the forest and disappear after a time.
@Niniane Not everything can be done, but all effort should be put for progress. What would you have it to be? Illarion never changing? This is an alpha game, and all things should be brought up. HA! That's a good one. Me? Forcing? I am in no way forcing anyone to do anything nor do I have the even if I wanted to, and I don't. And I am in no way "complaining" this is the proposal board and what is being discussed here is for the benefit of illarion. If you see it as complaining and cannot handle the stress don't read the posts. From what you say, you seem to think that working for RP purposes is "tedious". Noone is asking you to continually repeat an action to gain skill- that is powergaming! What you do as a good roleplayer in a realistic environment is try out your skills day by day. You should never find raising skills tedious unless you powergame. If you see the game as tedious then maybe this is not the game for you.
@Ellaron Hmm....then people would constantly chop down trees. No...not the forests!
@Crocket Hm...if a skill is not made for firestarting then requiring a tinderbox to start a fire is the next best thing I suppose. Good idea.
@Hermie Different types of wood...very interesting! We could then have different type of trees and different trees could be used for different purposes. Perhaps dry wood could appear randomly in the forest and disappear after a time.
@Niniane Not everything can be done, but all effort should be put for progress. What would you have it to be? Illarion never changing? This is an alpha game, and all things should be brought up. HA! That's a good one. Me? Forcing? I am in no way forcing anyone to do anything nor do I have the even if I wanted to, and I don't. And I am in no way "complaining" this is the proposal board and what is being discussed here is for the benefit of illarion. If you see it as complaining and cannot handle the stress don't read the posts. From what you say, you seem to think that working for RP purposes is "tedious". Noone is asking you to continually repeat an action to gain skill- that is powergaming! What you do as a good roleplayer in a realistic environment is try out your skills day by day. You should never find raising skills tedious unless you powergame. If you see the game as tedious then maybe this is not the game for you.
@Elaralith
I'm rather amazed at your lack of comprehension of my words. Thank you. You've put a smile on my face with your ridiculous post. Again. I'll cover my points once more for your benefit so you can understand what I said along with everyone else who already has.
By 'forcing people to do work' I was speaking of the programmers who would be forced to do work in order to implement this idea of making fire building a skill. This does not mean that you are forcing them to do work at this moment by making a proposal but if your proposal were accepted (which it shouldn't be and I'll get into this later) they would be forced to do work and you would force your idea upon every other player in illarion by doing so. Which I don't think would improve rp in any way and only make it worse). This says nothing about once in the game making players work harder to make a fire (by creating a useless skill which would actually inspire powergaming in the less than good roleplayers not to mention imposing problems with master bakers who would suddenly not remember how to make a fire and having to incorporate this into their rp). In fact, if you had read what I said correctly you would have noticed that my suggestion would actually require the players to work harder to make a fire. If one is forced to act out drying the wood, collecting pine needles or small shrubs and then lighting the fire this is much more work than clicking on a log and then the ground and watching as a word turns different shades of red.
By tedious I was referring to having a skill associated with each and every action that would take place in an every day life of an average person who lived in the real world during the time frame of illarions current setting. If a person were living in this time period they would have learned many skills before they reached the age of 14 out of necessity! This means that they would be in illarions standards 'masters' of many common skills in their every day life such as starting a fire and because of this there is absolutely no reason to include fire building as a skill in illarion. If each 'every-day' skill, which fire starting is! is turned into a skill in illarion then it would make each person who entered the island of illarion or world if you wish to call it that, useless. They would have to learn things they should already know in order to function. In order to survive! This is what I meant by saying it would reduce rp further and not bolster it as you say you want to do. Thus making life tedious if you have to learn a skill that you should already know just to survive when if you're alive up to the point of your arrival in illarion you already know how to survive in the world of this time. Meaning. You know how to do these every day skills! See my point?
Now how dare you call me a powergamer?! For that matter how could you possible think that I would think illarion is perfect as it is and should remain static and never make any steps forward? Because I say your one idea is bad? Great assumption. But wrong. Illarion has a long way to go before it is perfect but it is very good at the present time and with improvements will be better. You try to make it better with your suggestions but some are not always well thought out and when this fact is stated you take it as a personal insult and argue the matter which you have little knowledge of (such as this fire-starting when you have never tried or failed to realize that it was an essential skill in the aforementioned time period). For some reason you read my words and assumed I only wish to gain skill by doing some action repeatedly. This is really sad. You on the other hand say that roleplaying is to 'try out your skills day by day'. Which I disagree with. I believe that roleplaying if you're going to do it right should be living your life the way you wish and learning what you need to know in a proper way (not powergaming) and not with the intent of concerning yourself with your future or past skills but rather with what you can do at this very point in time and what you must do with your life in order to do what you wish in the future in a reasonable manner. If you are a blacksmith you should be making metal items in order to make money as well as learn how to make more and better items (as this is for the rp sake of improvement) and you shouldn't sit there and test out your skills each and every day by testing yourself or comparing yourself with others but rather to compare yourself to yourself and improving in your life. Not in your skills but in your overall life.
Now. Elaralith. Think about this. Why not try to solve some of these 'problems' of yours by roleplaying solutions on your own (see my suggestion on how to solve this 'problem' for an idea of how this could be done with all other 'problems'). Otherwise there are going to be an infinite number of possible skills to learn. Everyone needs to learn how to walk. Maybe we should make this a skill. Oh I know! Speaking! Nobody is born already knowing how to speak. Let's make this a skill. This is what I would call tedious. If you have to learn every skill you use in your every day life then you have to get over a major hurdle before you can even begin to interact with other players and actually begin your roleplay. Especially if you're going to learn these skills in a reasonable way and NOT powergame.
I don't know why you think I'm stressed while responding to your posts my dear. You may be but I on the other hand am not. I said you were complaining because you were saying that these different ideas must be implemented in order to make rp better when they would make it worse, and whenever anyone in nearly every post criticizes or speaks negatively of your posts or your ideas inevitably a flame war starts and you end up basically saying they don't understand and do not read your posts. Starting a flame war wherever you go which is not in the best interest of illarion. Now please if you're not going to read other peoples posts or not even try to comprehend them before making your rebuttal out of pure anger and littered with derogatory remarks then I think maybe illarions forums are not the right place for you Elaralith.
Please if you're going to respond read this again just to make sure you understand everything before posting something out of haste due to your short temper and impatience that has nothing to do with what I actually said again. Thank you.
- Niniane
I'm rather amazed at your lack of comprehension of my words. Thank you. You've put a smile on my face with your ridiculous post. Again. I'll cover my points once more for your benefit so you can understand what I said along with everyone else who already has.
By 'forcing people to do work' I was speaking of the programmers who would be forced to do work in order to implement this idea of making fire building a skill. This does not mean that you are forcing them to do work at this moment by making a proposal but if your proposal were accepted (which it shouldn't be and I'll get into this later) they would be forced to do work and you would force your idea upon every other player in illarion by doing so. Which I don't think would improve rp in any way and only make it worse). This says nothing about once in the game making players work harder to make a fire (by creating a useless skill which would actually inspire powergaming in the less than good roleplayers not to mention imposing problems with master bakers who would suddenly not remember how to make a fire and having to incorporate this into their rp). In fact, if you had read what I said correctly you would have noticed that my suggestion would actually require the players to work harder to make a fire. If one is forced to act out drying the wood, collecting pine needles or small shrubs and then lighting the fire this is much more work than clicking on a log and then the ground and watching as a word turns different shades of red.
By tedious I was referring to having a skill associated with each and every action that would take place in an every day life of an average person who lived in the real world during the time frame of illarions current setting. If a person were living in this time period they would have learned many skills before they reached the age of 14 out of necessity! This means that they would be in illarions standards 'masters' of many common skills in their every day life such as starting a fire and because of this there is absolutely no reason to include fire building as a skill in illarion. If each 'every-day' skill, which fire starting is! is turned into a skill in illarion then it would make each person who entered the island of illarion or world if you wish to call it that, useless. They would have to learn things they should already know in order to function. In order to survive! This is what I meant by saying it would reduce rp further and not bolster it as you say you want to do. Thus making life tedious if you have to learn a skill that you should already know just to survive when if you're alive up to the point of your arrival in illarion you already know how to survive in the world of this time. Meaning. You know how to do these every day skills! See my point?
Now how dare you call me a powergamer?! For that matter how could you possible think that I would think illarion is perfect as it is and should remain static and never make any steps forward? Because I say your one idea is bad? Great assumption. But wrong. Illarion has a long way to go before it is perfect but it is very good at the present time and with improvements will be better. You try to make it better with your suggestions but some are not always well thought out and when this fact is stated you take it as a personal insult and argue the matter which you have little knowledge of (such as this fire-starting when you have never tried or failed to realize that it was an essential skill in the aforementioned time period). For some reason you read my words and assumed I only wish to gain skill by doing some action repeatedly. This is really sad. You on the other hand say that roleplaying is to 'try out your skills day by day'. Which I disagree with. I believe that roleplaying if you're going to do it right should be living your life the way you wish and learning what you need to know in a proper way (not powergaming) and not with the intent of concerning yourself with your future or past skills but rather with what you can do at this very point in time and what you must do with your life in order to do what you wish in the future in a reasonable manner. If you are a blacksmith you should be making metal items in order to make money as well as learn how to make more and better items (as this is for the rp sake of improvement) and you shouldn't sit there and test out your skills each and every day by testing yourself or comparing yourself with others but rather to compare yourself to yourself and improving in your life. Not in your skills but in your overall life.
Now. Elaralith. Think about this. Why not try to solve some of these 'problems' of yours by roleplaying solutions on your own (see my suggestion on how to solve this 'problem' for an idea of how this could be done with all other 'problems'). Otherwise there are going to be an infinite number of possible skills to learn. Everyone needs to learn how to walk. Maybe we should make this a skill. Oh I know! Speaking! Nobody is born already knowing how to speak. Let's make this a skill. This is what I would call tedious. If you have to learn every skill you use in your every day life then you have to get over a major hurdle before you can even begin to interact with other players and actually begin your roleplay. Especially if you're going to learn these skills in a reasonable way and NOT powergame.
I don't know why you think I'm stressed while responding to your posts my dear. You may be but I on the other hand am not. I said you were complaining because you were saying that these different ideas must be implemented in order to make rp better when they would make it worse, and whenever anyone in nearly every post criticizes or speaks negatively of your posts or your ideas inevitably a flame war starts and you end up basically saying they don't understand and do not read your posts. Starting a flame war wherever you go which is not in the best interest of illarion. Now please if you're not going to read other peoples posts or not even try to comprehend them before making your rebuttal out of pure anger and littered with derogatory remarks then I think maybe illarions forums are not the right place for you Elaralith.
Please if you're going to respond read this again just to make sure you understand everything before posting something out of haste due to your short temper and impatience that has nothing to do with what I actually said again. Thank you.
- Niniane
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Cain Freemont
- Posts: 1424
- Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:54 pm
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Firstly, I would like to say that this topic surprises me... I didnt think that bickering over this topic would blow up into some "You're a powergamer" "No I'm not!" argument.
Elaralith: If someone disagrees with you, it isnt necessarily because they are a powergamer. Not everyone that thinks differently is powergaming.. or seeing mastery in all skills, or whatever crap this is about. I practically have to look at the thread name to see what this topic is about, rather than powergaming. I don't agree with making a skill of fire-starting either, does that make me a powergamer? I agree with Niniane in that not everything has to be a skill for it to be role-played... that seems more like a quest of skill mastery to me, rather than someone disagreeing with an opinion.
Niniane: Very well put. You back up your opinion flawlessly. I agree that fire-starting does not have to be a skill for it to be role-played. It really just causes the programmers/artists to create new things, something not essential at this time.
Not much else to say, considering this thread died yesterday.
Yours,
~Cain
Elaralith: If someone disagrees with you, it isnt necessarily because they are a powergamer. Not everyone that thinks differently is powergaming.. or seeing mastery in all skills, or whatever crap this is about. I practically have to look at the thread name to see what this topic is about, rather than powergaming. I don't agree with making a skill of fire-starting either, does that make me a powergamer? I agree with Niniane in that not everything has to be a skill for it to be role-played... that seems more like a quest of skill mastery to me, rather than someone disagreeing with an opinion.
Niniane: Very well put. You back up your opinion flawlessly. I agree that fire-starting does not have to be a skill for it to be role-played. It really just causes the programmers/artists to create new things, something not essential at this time.
Not much else to say, considering this thread died yesterday.
Yours,
~Cain
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Sir Giandor
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@Niniane You in turn put a smile on my face because of your ridiculous post. It amazes me how your first post was so obviously flawed and not thought out, and now you try to cover it up with pointless excuses based on my post. I have nothing more to say to you.
@Separdum Hmm an addition of a tinderbox as a requirement to start a fire would be an improvement on the current situation.
@Cain Please do not post useless posts that revolve around the contents of "Yes, I support Niniane though I have no clue what is going on!"
@Former Randelf I say the same to you. Such posts cause extra work for the moderators.
@Separdum Hmm an addition of a tinderbox as a requirement to start a fire would be an improvement on the current situation.
@Cain Please do not post useless posts that revolve around the contents of "Yes, I support Niniane though I have no clue what is going on!"
@Former Randelf I say the same to you. Such posts cause extra work for the moderators.
@Elaralith
I ask you this in all seriousness. Is English your first language? If it's not I'll understand how you could have misunderstood what I said. If it is then I really don't know how you could say it's flawed. Everyone else but you seemed to take it all in pretty well and support my ideas. Then once again when I restated it, it also went over very well and these pointless examples I gave were given for the people who couldn't comprehend more abstract ideas as I laid out in my first post. I see no reason to respond to this again so I won't. You can't accept any other ideas that are not your own as you've made apparent here tonight. It's pointless to enter into any conversation in which a matter of opinion other than yours will be expressed because you'll take it personally and attack the other person. As for this discussion. It's been settled. A tender box it is! At least something good came out of a very poorly thought out proposal.
I ask you this in all seriousness. Is English your first language? If it's not I'll understand how you could have misunderstood what I said. If it is then I really don't know how you could say it's flawed. Everyone else but you seemed to take it all in pretty well and support my ideas. Then once again when I restated it, it also went over very well and these pointless examples I gave were given for the people who couldn't comprehend more abstract ideas as I laid out in my first post. I see no reason to respond to this again so I won't. You can't accept any other ideas that are not your own as you've made apparent here tonight. It's pointless to enter into any conversation in which a matter of opinion other than yours will be expressed because you'll take it personally and attack the other person. As for this discussion. It's been settled. A tender box it is! At least something good came out of a very poorly thought out proposal.
@Crocket Bashing? I must say I don't know how to come to that conclusion. I expected to be talking to adults, but obviously some here are not mature as hoped for...
Last edited by Elaralith on Fri Feb 14, 2003 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
@Niniane Can't take the stresss in a fruitful discussions? My advice to you: Get out. You accuse this proposal of being poorly thought out! How dare you be so insolent! I will ignore that insult, and take it as a result of your obviously misguided, clouded and mad mind. My dear, such posts as yours that are unhelpful are what define posts that should be punished. Stop it. Thank you.
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Korg Blacktooth
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