Get rid of banning npcs or..

[Hew Keenaxe]

Yes, the mine.
All the bugs have already been worked out of it, ie .. prison terms set by the time it takes to do the required mining, can't be forgotten. Food, so no one starves. Can interact with other prisoners. And if lucky, prison break is possible.
Maybe guards should be required to come check on the prisoners often. And maybe a one percent chance of finding a portal book in a rock during mining.
But the system is in place and works well. Just needs to be used instead of bans.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Djironnyma]

cloned topics, merged them

[Aegohl]

At the very least, players should be able to ask for the ban to be lifted for rp reasons, temporarily. I also think that with such a long term ban such as Fooser's that at that point the auto-ban should be removed and the town leader should have to rely on human player guards to keep the banning (and we can rp that the npc guards have forgotten the face of the player-character). If the GM leaders can't create even enough rp to have players guard the town, what were they made for? Even the player rulers who were prone of getting bored and not logging in were able to do that from time to time.

[GolfLima]

@Aegohl

1) we have 94 players and 3 towns
2) 31 players for 1 town (( 94:3=31 ))
3) -> that means every player has to be a guard for 40 min (one after the other - what a lot of coordination) at the town to have guards 24h
4) ONLY 3 guards are ig at the same time and cant meet (due to their task)
the gm make a good job ... we cant have PLAYERguards all the time

[Azure Lynch]

I think town guard is great. Why have a military or the crimson order or what ever. Runewick has if they don't use them. A 24 ban is OK as long as its not mistreated but that should be used to give players time to ready for an rp based catch the criminal that sneaks into town. Would be interesting and get more players involved besides just running around building up skills.

[Estralis Seborian]

If individual bans are used over using the prison mine, I will deactivate the bans entirely and only whole factions can be banned.

[Mephistopheles]

How much sense does that make O.O

[Aegohl]

@Aegohl

1) we have 94 players and 3 towns
2) 31 players for 1 town (( 94:3=31 ))
3) -> that means every player has to be a guard for 40 min (one after the other - what a lot of coordination) at the town to have guards 24h
4) ONLY 3 guards are ig at the same time and cant meet (due to their task)
the gm make a good job ... we cant have PLAYERguards all the time

The point isn't to keep player-characters out. It's to allow player-characters to take a risk and sneak in. Remember, we're here to roleplay with eachother, not separate the infidels from the masses.

[Mephistopheles]

@Aegohl (or however you spell it)

Sneaking past guards is not possible without a gm, and when I asked for this in the past I was blatently told no, I tried to disguise, I even got the town guard leader to vouch for me to go to the depot and get my stuff, it was all answered quite simply. "No"

Sure other gms are around now, great, but fact remains you still need a gm. And soo what if a criminal comes in when theres no town guard chars, theres no motivation to just pk crafting or non combat chars anymore, theres no loss of items for pks, so what choice do they have but rp with the one's in town? They can't steal anything without the player's say, so yeah. The criminal knows if he stays too long the chance of encountering a guard is higher.

What is the actual reasoning for keeping them out now? Abuse is ruled out.

24 hour bans can be beneficial, that should be the limit. Indefinite bans are bad, especially if one has to bend their rp to get the ban lifted. It takes them out of roleplay epicenters.

[Aegohl]

You're preaching to the choir, Mephy. That's exactly what I said. That auto bans should be temporary. Afterwards it should be left to player guards.

However, I would add that the current system punishes the player for the character's misdeeds, something we should try to avoid. Everyone wants conflict, but they also want to make it damned near impossible to happen. If you want safety rather than roleplay, you're in the wrong place.

It's ridiculous that Fooser, for example, has nothing he can do about his ban but post impotent threats at the Don on the rp forums, because he can't even enter the town. He can't rp confronting the Don. He can't even enter the town to pay off his debt to be unbanned. If that doesn't sound absolutely backwards, I don't know what does. If you want villains, skirmishes, conflicts, and competition, you should be against long-term auto-bans. If not, I can point you to the nearest chat program or one player game.

I don't know where to draw the line of what is short-term and long-term. I wouldn't mind if there was an auto ban of even a few short days to give some time for players to breath before the next round of conflict.

[Djironnyma]

I will not spoiler ooc the reasons why vern is banned from Runewick, try plz to find out ig. Its your right to belief your char isnt threaten total fair, but thats an ig matter. If you think you as player are not threat fair you may ask a GM or CM to check if there are real reasons why your char is banned.

A ban isnt a punishment at all. If we want punish a char we send him to the mine, claim money or other items from him or beat him down. A ban is in the first line a act to protect the own town/citizens from an individual or a whole fraction and furthermore it can be an political instrument. We have a town guard, we have more as one char who can ghost anyone who is banned from town, what we dont have is 24/7 h time. I have very bad experience from leading a town with no guard/safe area. It happens all the time that there where chars running in town and bully weaker citizens every time our stronger chars where offline.

To support roleplay every banned player need at least one way to lift his ban, to work on it. Vern have more as one option to change the situation, he can accept runewicks offer, he can convince the queen to interact, he can win the duel or you can talk with a GM to sneak in the town and challange these which had banned him. Starting an ooc complain about a working feature just because you personal dont feel comfortable with all these solutions which were created special for your char isnt the right way.

You dont ask to make illarion in any way better but to can play whatever you like without fearing any long time consequences. Playing an aggressive "possessed" char which annoy not only others but also his own town leaders have heavy consequences, learn to deal with them. If you cant enjoy the consequences of your chars acts you should consider to play him another way.

[Mephistopheles]

not about that Dji, I apologize for my posts in the other topic but this has nothing to do with Vern, when I mentioned about being blatantly told no about entering a town for whatever reason I actually was talking about Bartimaeus.

He had a piece of armor he needed there but a gm would not let him get it by sneaking in or even having the guard captain vouch for him, there was no compromises all I was told was no. Thats what I was talking about.

I've been bringing up points against banning npc's since before Vern was banned from Runewick. Also I'm completly okay with settling things ig with Vern I have ideas of my own on how it will go, hope it will be fun for all parties.

[Aegohl]

There should be consequences. Those consequences shouldn't be a robot teleporting you.

[Sarai Flysse]

There should be consequences. Those consequences shouldn't be a robot teleporting you.

Nothing more to add. Agree 100% with this.

[Djironnyma]

There should be consequences. Those consequences shouldn't be a robot teleporting you.

You maybe missunderstand me. The consequences are just the side effect. The most important questions is not how to punish bully/crime/evil chars - we have some nice ways, the more important question is how to protect peaceful chars how create a save area?

[Mephistopheles]

In reality there is no where that is 100% safe, if you can't fight off a few noobs then why bother ruling a town? sure there might be bully chars but they get no material gain from it anyway so people with sensible rp won't just march in a bully whenever they feel like it, and sure tha might happen a few times till some honorable character gets mad and steps in, I'm sure if a char was bullying people In runewick a Cadomyrian would help whenever their online.

[Hew Keenaxe]

A ban isnt a punishment at all.
Yes it is. It is the worst of punishments. A ban keeps the player/character from being able to craft, buy and sell, repair and limits RP.

If we want punish a char we send him to the mine, claim money or other items from him or beat him down.
Then do this first. Its been a long time since I heard of any town using the mine as punishment, they just go straight to auto ban.

To support roleplay every banned player need at least one way to lift his ban, to work on it.
I agree with this. It needs to be reasonable and also include a definite end time of the ban which should not be overly long. 1 day, 3 days, then a week. Any longer than that, and the conflict still can't be resolved, then a GM should be brought in. Players shouldn't be able to limit anothers RP longer than that without GM support.

[Aegohl]

There should be consequences. Those consequences shouldn't be a robot teleporting you.

You maybe missunderstand me. The consequences are just the side effect. The most important questions is not how to punish bully/crime/evil chars - we have some nice ways, the more important question is how to protect peaceful chars how create a save area?

The safe place should be within four tiles of the cross. If you don't want conflict you can stay there. =)

[Jen]

Please, I'm so starved for conflict in the game that every time I sit at the campfire and a slightly shady character walks by that I don't know yet, all I can think is: "Please let be a bandit. Rob me! Rob me, please!"

I don't think we have to worry about 'safe places', at least not at the current state of the game.

[Mephistopheles]

As I've said the stagnancy is horrible there's nothing, no motivation or anything all people are doing is powergaming and gathering resources if not just sitting down for a friendly conversation.

[Djironnyma]

The safe place should be within four tiles of the cross. If you don't want conflict you can stay there. =)

So you are telling the strongest char online is allowed to do what he likes? Welcome to Dota . Serious standing at the cross is the same as log off. We cannot argue the bans should be left because it spoils the fun of the players who play bulling chars and ignore that it would spoil the Fun of the players which forced to be their victims.

Illarion benefits from a good mixture of Chars, strong, weak, nice, bully. Chars build communities (towns) to benefit from each other, e.g. the weak once support stronger once with making food and the stronger once protect the weaker. That works as long as the stronger once get offline, since the food stays the protection goes with the offline char. The past proved that many (not all) players of bulling/criminal/evil chars wait until chars which are able to defeat them to log of and then bullie the town – or they just play to different times.

Bans can be annoying yes, even if that isn’t what they are supposed so it is a consequent of your way to play your char. Anyway I know not a single case of any player where the GMs of the town which banned the player told him: No there’s nothing you can do against your ban. Otherwise if a GM tells you such thing you are free to speak with a CM of your choice

So please stop a moment of telling me how your fun is spoiled by the bans and tell me how to protect these players fun which play week chars and don’t like to get bullied/ghosted even in the hometown of their char? A banned player have enough room for playing at other spaces, he have the option to change his situation, an bullied char have no where to hide (and still be able to play) if we get rid of safe towns.

[Lord Arcia]

Have the guard/ban NPCs inactive when "*******" player is online.

[Mephistopheles]

protect the player's fun by making a strong town guard, if a char comes in to bully ban him for a day if he comes back then why not get the motivation to log in and catch him/her? Instead of only logging in to gather resources or for events, or to play in a select little clique the player may have with his rl friends. sure not everyone has the time, but I see alot of other players improvise to rp with players not in their general play time. Currently the strong do nothing at all except boast how strong they are.

[Aegohl]

Before I continue, I just want to say that I love you, Dji, even when I disagree with you. <3 <3 <3

Now that I've gotten that over with, abuse and bullying is a job for GM's to deal with. Antagonism, however, is a central part of plot.

[Djironnyma]

Before I continue, I just want to say that I love you, Dji, even when I disagree with you. <3 <3 <3

I know

Now that I've gotten that over with, abuse and bullying is a job for GM's to deal with. Antagonism, however, is a central part of plot.

I agree with booth. But you can bullie a char without braeking any gamerule, what still may destroy a players fun just because the chars which protect him are offline.

Antagonism is even with a ban possible, its your decsission to play in a safe area or not, if you try to get rid of the ban or on the other end to try to let it stay.

[Fooser]

What exactly has the Magic Zap Button contributed to the game? At all?

[Alytys Lamar]

Antagonism, however, is a central part of plot.

Exactly. I have not the feeling we need safety in this game, there are more safe spots then anything else Even if you get ghosted Dji - then what ? Beside having a little damage on your armor/cloth and being a bit weak for while is nothing what really is dangerous.
I love to create conflicts, annoy people - but I got the feeling that some of the players dislike that.
In that case I try ( and tried ) to clear it over PM, BUT for sure I will NOT change Aly.

Question: Do we want a lullaby game and be all nice to each other or a lively, sometimes thrilling, game ?

I understand the ban complains if its like Foosers, or longer bans. As far as I understand there is no way for the player to solve the ban if the GM not want to do it.
This is a terrible thing for playing a real shady Character. But still the player should think about the consequences if playing such a character.

We should try to work on proposals who address both sides, though. I can still remember that Characters starved in Trolls Bane to death in jail - this isn't for sure what we want back.
Arcia's proposal seems to be fine, but I guess its not possible IG. Who would decide to make the guards inactive ? And how could this be handled - constant watchout who is playing ? Not likely

But how about to let go the guards inactive for 2 different times ( about the Time zones ) for - let say 45 minutes or 1 hrs ?
So the shady can go in town at his own risk to do what he wants to do - there is still the risk that a strong town member get him.

[Lord Arcia]

My suggestion might be realized by a script.

[Mephistopheles]

I suggest the ban being limited to 24 hours period, anything worse should be worthy of a different punishment ie. fines, loss of rank, prison or mine time.

Prisons should be watched and regulated, prisoners might like to be willing to rp could be fun roleplaying an inmate, but prison guard chars who see the prisoner online should check on them and rp for a little while and roleplay with them, make sure they are mining or maybe just have a conversation. Neglect of a prisoner should be watched for, but they'd be able to eventually get out on their own from mine work.

Punishments could vary between towns, from humiliating the criminal to whipping them, the list can be endless for realistic punishment.

[Hew Keenaxe]

I can still remember that Characters starved in Trolls Bane to death in jail - this isn't for sure what we want back.

The detention mines prevent that. You get sent down to them to mine "X" number of ore. Picks and food are provided as needed. When done, you get on the teleporter and get released.
The harder you work the sooner you get out. If others are sentenced to the mines, you are all together.
This is already in place. Just not used. It serves the same function as a ban, removes you from town, the whole game for awhile. Time to cool down, rethink your actions. A time of peace for the others. But has a set sentence. No being forgotten in jail or left to serve a ban and not let back in.
Just use it! First!. If the mines dont work, if someone becomes a real problem, THEN think about banning them.