Illarion.org

I can see the logic in both sides of this argument, but at the end of the day this is an engine-based RPG. Skilling is as much a part of the game as roleplaying. If you don't have the time or inclination to skill your character, why not hone your RP skills and play a mediocre crafter/fighter/mage? There aren't enough ordinary characters anyway.

I think the argument towards helping new players is flawed, because the learning system is fabulous at the low levels. The only characters that would be using a skill/learning booster are ones that are advanced in their respective skills. I do agree that the higher levels in crafting could require fewer attempts. Crafting is painful.

The real problem is not so much with the game system, but rather with players being dissatisfied at roleplaying their character's actual skills. Unfortunately, players that spend ALL their in game time roleplaying are exactly the same as powergamers who spend ALL their time training skills. They each are missing a half of the game entirely.

Completely agreed, here. Powergamers want the higher powered characters, so they powergame. For those who don't have the time, they roleplay higher-leveled skills.

The sad aspect to all of this is that the skilling is not actually realistic enough for "realistic" roleplaying. In real life, you don't have to make 1000 handles before being able to make a staff, or fight for a week without rest before being able to hold a sword the right way. Since a lot of the skill gain is adjusted to prevent powergaming, it also stops non-powergamers from raising their skills with any sort of "realistic" speed.

So, in my opinion, maybe something can be changed to help that.

I'm all for making the game more fun for everyone, but I agree with Athian. (( mark your calendars!! )) I think it would be a bad idea to make a further adjustment to the game because the players who skill their characters are at a higher skill level than the ones who don't. If the players taking the time to play the game fully are penalized for the benefit of players that aren't, I'm opposed.

That said, I like the idea as a money sink for the game economy. How are all those pure roleplayers going to be able to afford it though? They'd have to powergame.

Athian, Matt has proved that in a week you can have an extremely powerful character. Some people are at illarion because they want to get away from the grinding bullshit that comes with every other MMO. These people take years to have skilled characters. A newbie could beat them after a week of training if they chose half decent attributes.

Kamilar wrote:There aren't enough ordinary characters anyway.

So go and play one.

Anyways, how about this: To help newbs get on their feet, why not have just one trainer, who will train any skill for you (but only when logged out, or maybe an rp/action sequence built in so you can skillup faster while doing this?), but at a price, which increases per skill level, and depending on the skill level.
So, for example:

1 skill level below 25 (any skill) costs 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. copper. (increases 5 copper per skill level until level 20 is reached) Takes 20 minutes logged out, 2 minutes IG

1 skill level between 25 and 40 costs 1 silver, 1.5 silver, 2 silver etc. (increases 50 copper per skill level until level 40 is reached - these are still levels of relatively easy skillgain, and so shouldn't cost TOO much, but should be at least a silver because at this point the person has a way of making money) Takes 30 minutes logged out, 5-10 minutes IG

1 skill level between 41 and 50 costs 2 silver, 3 silver, 4 silver, 5 silver etc (increases 1 silver per skill level until lvl 50) Takes 45 minutes logged out, 10-15 minutes IG

1 skill level between 51-75 costs 5, 7.5, 10 silver etc (increases 2.5 silver per level until level 75) Takes 1 hr logged out, 25 minutes IG

1 skill level between 76-90 costs 10, 15, 20 silver etc (increases 5 silver per level until level 90) Takes 1.5hrs logged out, 30 minutes IG

1 skill level between 91-95 costs 25, 50, 75 silver etc (increases 25 silver per level until level 95) Takes 2 hours logged out, 45 minutes IG

96-100 should not be able to be bought, unless at a gold per level

Also, I do not mean, for example that level 1->2 should cost 5 copper, 2->3 costs 10, etc. It means that if you skillup ANY 2 levels between 1 and 20, the first costs 5 copper, the second costs 10 copper. So for example you get this guy to train level 2 for you, costs 5 copper, skillup 10 levels yourself, you get him to train level 11, this only costs 10 copper because it is your second level that is being trained from him.

In this way, it's not massively expensive until the higher levels, in which the person skilling their chosen profession should have enough money to afford it at that point anyway, thus helping to build up chars. Just an idea.

I think that the skilling system, in all honesty, will be fix with changes that are already coming:
Appearently monsters in different locations, which makes fighting more interesting and less time consuming to travel the entire map to get to the one spawn point,
And,
a rebalancing of weapons that should make weapons balanced, thus making the IG economy stablized, and with a stable economy that means everyone will have different interests in different weapons, making skilling in crafting easier.

Tbh i dont like the whole concept... skill is earned through hard work and vigorous training, not some bloke with a few gold bluking up by reading books... that only works with cooking.
Maybe only have it so you can learn the basics like up to level 5 then you have to work for it

Sounds good to me.

I don't think it's from reading a book... I'm pretty sure he means a literal *trainer*... In which case, it would be pretty realistic. If nothing else, make it so the trainer can't train you past 75? But the cost would more than make up for it, in my opinion. I like it

EDIT: Maybe add in a chance of failing? Small chance, but it would have you learn only half (or less) of a skill point?

Cassandra Fjurin wrote:So now the large question: how can we solve this? A skillcap where you have a global amount of skillpoints. If you hit this cap, another "long not used" skill, will decrease if you wan't to increase another one (this is the ultima online principe). So you can't be master in all skills. Maybe there are other good ideas around.

But this ruins some peoples Rp... lets say there is a ranger who can use a bow and sword who likes to read and fish... does this mean he cannot master his profession?

I don't like this idea either - looking at it this way, fighters require 4 or more skills at a time to be good (tactics, parry, dodge, conc/ranged/slash/punc/wrestling + maybe poison and magic resistance (if high enough atts), so thats up to 7 skills right there already. Say a fighter wants to learn to cook or do 1 type of craft, well, he's... pretty screwed. And mages as well, require about 6 or 7 skills + magic resistance + dodge + parry.. I don't think a skill limit will help anyone.

nmaguire wrote:I don't like this idea either - looking at it this way, fighters require 4 or more skills at a time to be good (tactics, parry, dodge, conc/ranged/slash/punc/wrestling + maybe poison and magic resistance (if high enough atts), so thats up to 7 skills right there already. Say a fighter wants to learn to cook or do 1 type of craft, well, he's... pretty screwed. And mages as well, require about 6 or 7 skills + magic resistance + dodge + parry.. I don't think a skill limit will help anyone.

not so twinker toes just think outside the box. and if you really want to languages count as a skill as well. you could have it x amount from catagory 1, y amount from catagory 2, z amount from catagory 3 and w amount for all. 1 being magic, 2 crafts 3 fighting. balance it so that that fighter can have the 4 he needs plus 2 -3 weapons, a trade, cook and he wants to read. there you go, good to go. as for the ranger, he is supposed to be multi classed, expert marskmen and semi skilled at druid skill, which is what he would get with the proposed skill cap. and if you want me to try and figure out the real numbers i need to know how many skills there are and what they are (i am not a skill person)

Mages only really use non-language 3 skills tbh . The other are used very rarely and only contain 2 spells each: Antidote/area antidote and pull light object/pull heavy object. You could have both of these skills at about 10 and be able to use both spells with the right equipment.