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Well, it would be a nice feature. A mage fights and draws much mana from his surroundings to use it to fight. The longer the fight takes, the more mana he draws out of the surroundings. With every drop of Mana, it gets harder for him to draw mana before he is finally unable to get any more Mana from the area he fought at.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Well, it would be a nice feature. A mage fights and draws much mana from his surroundings to use it to fight. The longer the fight takes, the more mana he draws out of the surroundings. With every drop of Mana, it gets harder for him to draw mana before he is finally unable to get any more Mana from the area he fought at.

We call that the mana bar.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Well, it would be a nice feature. A mage fights and draws much mana from his surroundings to use it to fight. The longer the fight takes, the more mana he draws out of the surroundings. With every drop of Mana, it gets harder for him to draw mana before he is finally unable to get any more Mana from the area he fought at.

That is imposing an OOC ideology of the way mana ingame works into the technical aspects of the game. Which as much as possible should be avoided. It also seems unnessesarily complicated to create and will ultimately not come into play very often.

LifeWonder wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Well, it would be a nice feature. A mage fights and draws much mana from his surroundings to use it to fight. The longer the fight takes, the more mana he draws out of the surroundings. With every drop of Mana, it gets harder for him to draw mana before he is finally unable to get any more Mana from the area he fought at.

We call that the mana bar.

I call that a stupid comment.


@Nalzaxx

It was just an idea. If you argument like that, though, the original proposal in here should be just as much avoided.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:

LifeWonder wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Well, it would be a nice feature. A mage fights and draws much mana from his surroundings to use it to fight. The longer the fight takes, the more mana he draws out of the surroundings. With every drop of Mana, it gets harder for him to draw mana before he is finally unable to get any more Mana from the area he fought at.

We call that the mana bar.

I call that a stupid comment.

I call that a stupid comment.

Because they become ordinary people and can't do magic without mana.

Maybe he/she fells bad because he/she is used to feel the mana. But it does not threaten their health or lives.

This is wrong, sorry. A mage becomes the weakest creature ig without mana and can be ghosted by a zombie or a new player if not careful....so this "feature" will definitely have consequences to the mage char. IF there is a possibility of mana drain that would affect that health, such as an unsafe area on the map then there should ALSO be an armor to help protect a mage from these one or two random hits yet won't affect their magic in order to prevent easily ghosting.

Im really just thinking for quests tbh, having powerful mages around makes everything a lot simpler usually, and if they were negated then it could add an interesting aspect to the quest atmosphere.

This can be achieved by RP alone without any game engine involvement simply by a message from the gm in a quest "all mages have their mana drained and can't use magic".... there can even be a message on the order of "all mages have their mana partially drained and can only use the healing spell" shrugs

mana vacuum that drains quickly manapoints and slowly some foodpoints

I would be against this idea, if mana and food gone a char can be ghosted from what I gather... correct me if wrong.

We ALL know that ig RP can be adjusted fairly easily for ooc changes in environment/game.......take the Druids and no longer able to use potions, this is on the same order.


The more "ideas" I read, the more I am against this proposal. It appears to go from a "fun/funny" quick mana drain causing some interesting RP to something akin to all of a sudden taking all weapons/armor from a fighter in the middle of monsters.... going from RP to game engine mandating the RP.

I've always disliked the way that most fantasy games and settings treat the concept of magic. They try to put rules on magic that are logicked out by modern reasoning.

While my views are heretical according to the way the Magic Academy teaches things, I'd been arguing that things should be done in such a way since before the Magic Academy (and got ignored). I think that I'll leave it to the players ultimately to decide if we should retcon magic theory to be more realistic with historical/real world views rather than typical slap dash fantasy treatments by folks like Goodkind. (Notice that older fantasy authors like Tolkien even would disagree with magic theory as it is in Illarion)

Instead, let us put ourselves in the mind of the primitive. Let us give ourselves a magickal worldview. To these folks, magic isn't a limited resource or an energy, it is the manipulation of nature to produce miracles, ie. tricks that normal folks can't do. There would be a number of ways to produce miracles. You could call for the help of a demon or an angel. Or maybe if you knew some formula that other folks didn't know. There could be no magically-low zones. Without magic the world shatters. Magic is what binds the elements into what they are. There is no logical explanation for *anything*, and no sense in going to try to find one. However, if you know certain rules that other folks don't know, you can use those rules to cheat, just like you can really anyways in anything, but when nothing has to make sense, you can cheat in a nonsensical (supernatural) way.

Mana has become a way of balancing games for a while now, but most folks don't know the source of the word. Hawaiian shamans believed they used their mana to cast spells. However, the idea that you lose mana for successfully casting a spell is an abuse of the word (for game balance reasons). The Hawaiian shaman would suggest that if you successfully cast a spell you would gain more mana, and with more success, yet more. However, failure had a huge cost in mana.

The place that mana took in Hawaiian tales of magic would relate to the Greek's tragic hero and hubris. The great sorceror would grow to be unstoppable and yet it would be his pride and largeness that would make him overlook the small thing that would ultimately lead to his demise. The key to defeating the shaman, ultimately, was to outthink him and not be seen. Trick him once and he becomes powerless.

That being said, I could imagine a blighted magic zone at Hellbriar, where the elements are murky and unclean, defiled, but not a zone where magic stops working (that would be disasterous).

/thread

LifeWonder wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:

LifeWonder wrote: We call that the mana bar.

I call that a stupid comment.

I call that a stupid comment.

Agreeing with lifewonder here.

You know how when you walk around faster and you regenerate mana more quickly?

Will's theory -> You have exhausted mana from the area surrounding you and must move to an area of a higher concentration of mana to absorb mana more quickly, hence the reason to walk around. There you go; aforementioned effects already implemented ig.

pharse wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Would it be possible to let a place of X*X Tiles turn into a manavacuum when there were casted too many or powerful spells?

Hm. This would be surely more work...

But I don't know if that is intended anyway.

I don't think this will do ANYTHING.

If a mage is in a fight then he's not going to stay in the same place, he'll be teleporting around while blowing people's heads off.

Why do so many people care if a mage is the weakest character in game without mana? A mage is stronger than any other character without magic, at least the mildly skilled ones. Heaven forbid mages don't have this effect on 2% of the lands in game....

By the way, for the inactive mages or simply those not related with the magic system, there's recently been a huge update that makes mages not uber strong anymore. We can't cast fast (or else our mana is drained out), and the casting time has been increased dramatically.

So maybe a mage can take on one skilled warrior if he's got most his runes, but otherwise everything is pretty balanced in my opinion right now.

Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote:

Because they become ordinary people and can't do magic without mana.

Maybe he/she fells bad because he/she is used to feel the mana. But it does not threaten their health or lives.

This is wrong, sorry.

Sorry, this is not wrong. The mana drain itself does not harm the mage. And that was my statement. There may or may not be another threat in addition to the mana drain but that would depend on the location of the mana drain zone, wouldn't it?
And who says that mages are to fight anyway? Maybe they should just stay safe in there sactums and study the arcane lore? But I see that the combat mages are more interesting, right?

Pellandria wrote:@ Jupiter:Great lets bring guns, atombombs and hydrogenbombs into the game, why?

Already implemented

Its known as KEL RA QWAN and KEL RA QWAN DUN

ROFL that made me laugh.. I promise i'll read hadrian's posts from now on haha

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:

Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote:

Because they become ordinary people and can't do magic without mana.

Maybe he/she fells bad because he/she is used to feel the mana. But it does not threaten their health or lives.

This is wrong, sorry.

Sorry, this is not wrong. The mana drain itself does not harm the mage. And that was my statement. There may or may not be another threat in addition to the mana drain but that would depend on the location of the mana drain zone, wouldn't it?
And who says that mages are to fight anyway? Maybe they should just stay safe in there sactums and study the arcane lore? But I see that the combat mages are more interesting, right?

Worst case for a mage that is out of mana for too long is death. When a mage uses up too much mana in a short period of time it can exhaust him to no end. I've seen many of the mages that actually rp the magic and don't only do engine-using have their charakters collapse / sleep off cause of a very strong ritual / spell and so on.

-> Mana-absence CAN (not must) lead into physical threatments for a mage.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote: Worst case for a mage that is out of mana for too long is death.

Worst case for a peasant, who is exposed to a hostile monster for too long, is death.

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote: Worst case for a mage that is out of mana for too long is death.

Worst case for a peasant, who is exposed to a hostile monster for too long, is death.

That's a danger to anyone. Taking Mana away from a mage is similar to forcing an alcoholic away from alcohol


Edit: That wasn't ment as a joke. Actually I'd say that, when Mana is taken away from a mage for too long he starts suffering like a physically addicted person that gets isolated from whatever he/she/it is addicted to.

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Taking Mana away from a mage is similar to forcing an alcoholic away from alcohol

*ROFL* That one was really good. I have nothing to add to this.

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Taking Mana away from a mage is similar to forcing an alcoholic away from alcohol

*ROFL* That one was really good. I have nothing to add to this.

Hello, my name is Kawako.

And I'm a manaholic.

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
And I'm a manaholic.

you mean Man-aholic?


[ironic]I m the only one who knows how magic works, read here about areas of dead magic!!!1111one[/ironic]

...to topic: ... all these "theory's" of magic are build on "facts" which give us the engine (=the ig "natural laws"). If the engine change, e.g. with areas we cant cast in reason of no mana, we - or better or chars - have to find a way to explain that with there theory of magic or change there theory of magic. But i see absolutely no argument against a possible, good sounding, feature in reason of a ig theory.

There is no rule or official background info which say "Mana feels like 6 beer and a joint" or what happens with a mage which is "offline". Indeed it would be strange role-play if he feeling good and dance around by lose all his mana, but in the end it is alone your thing, how to roleplay your mage without mana....

Djironnyma wrote:

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
And I'm a manaholic.

[ironic]you mean Man-aholic?[/ironic]


I m the only one who knows how magic works, read here about areas of dead magic!!!1111one

Your 'ironic' tags were in the wrong place. There, fixed them for you

pharse wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Would it be possible to let a place of X*X Tiles turn into a manavacuum when there were casted too many or powerful spells?

Hm. This would be surely more work...

But I don't know if that is intended anyway.

Wouldn't that turn the teaching rooms into a mana drain?

Vern Kron wrote:

pharse wrote:

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Would it be possible to let a place of X*X Tiles turn into a manavacuum when there were casted too many or powerful spells?

Hm. This would be surely more work...

But I don't know if that is intended anyway.

Wouldn't that turn the teaching rooms into a mana drain?

Not really. I don't know exactly about the RP-Background for the teaching room, but from what I know I assume that they are normally places with supernatural strong natural manaflows surrounding and / or circleing them.

Such places wouldn't be suck dry for too long if you cast too many spells there. Also, even in the most used teaching room on the isle (which is the one of the MA I think) there aren't more than 20 or 30 spells (if even) a real week. For such strong mana"centers" or however you may call it, the bit of mana used from those spells shouldn't be a problem.

I imagine the manaflows like rivers that have a spring. A place like the crypt with undead beings, rotten plants and everything could be surrounded by a very tiny waterflow running through them, while teaching rooms are like the Nile. You could easily dry out the little waterflow surrounding the crypt, but how are you planning on drying out the Nile that surrounds the teaching rooms?

However...

The idea is nice, but I think the GMs should decide if and how it is implemented. It could be also introduced with a quest. That being said, I for one won't work on it until the GMs' OK.

Well if we include that, we should aslo include work and armor drains, because that would be all funny if suddendly someones tool is breaking or armor melts or other fun stuff.

Even better idea, we include a system that makes an automatic roll as soon as someone reaches a certaint stiffness or carrys a tool in his hand and as soon as you walk on anything other than a street or grass the system makes an "tumbleroll" that means if you get unlucky your char falls on his behind, which stuns him, degrades one randomly equipped item and hurts the char a bit?

The crafter version is a bit different, as soon as your char reaches half the learning cap he starts to make more failures, which each failure he either gets damaged or his tools degrade for a bit.

I have a better proposal for you Pell; it involves you being quiet and to stop spamming this proposal thread.

Right spamming, I writte more sense than you avalyon and those "signed" posts combined, I just think it would be some fun inside lla, because this is what we want here right, fun proposals or was the proposal simply for the sake of annoying some players hmm...who would know...

Since everything considering the topic seems to be said, some Mod could close it, before people start to annoy others just because of their existance, right? We don't want flamewar, do we now? ^_^