Illarion.org

((Yes, a bit offensive))

PS: Do you mean with real prices;


thread (2 CC)+ leather (3 CC)+ 1 CC work= bag (6 CC)?

Hmmm..erm, yes.
a hundred bags for the price of a bag of carrots.

maryday,

as often, i did not understand everything, you wrote. but i'll try to answer what i understood.

What is a "real" price?

in my opinion a "real price" is a middle price between the discountprices, some charge from their aprentices and friends and the prices others charge from unknowing (newbie)victims.

that is, why i favour to express the prices as ranges during the first step.

thread (2 CC)+ leather (3 CC)+ 1 CC work= bag (6 CC)?

let me answer with another question:
would you prefer that everybody has to pay 80 copper for a bag?
(a price i read recently)

but that allready tangents the second step. thinking about, what prices should be.

i, personally am against fixed prices.
but i am against unjustified prices too.
if i am not misstaken, we will have more NPC traders in the future.
to make them fit with a player economy, their buying prices must be so, that they leave a small margin of winning to players selling to them. their selling prices must be high enough, for players to prefer to buy from other players, but not too high, making things unaffordable.

i foresee, that after intense study of the various production-chains we will give some suggestions to the devs, where to change the quantity of raw materials needed, to balance the relation between cost and use of items.

Do we want a 5 CC max.price on onionseed for every bypasser, who cares nothing at all where he gets the seed from,
and who will be soon a concurring power?

my opinion on seeds:
it is not good, that a farmer has to produce seeds every second or third time, he plants.
so i would advocate to raise the number of seeds harvested per field.
and then make them cheaper.
the actual price of seeds only reflects, that it is too difficult to produce.

the other "big" thing in farming, the locally different fields, is contraproductive, as it is now.
instead of furthering trade, it converts farmers to roving gipsies.
for that to work properly, it would need fields without free access to everyone.

sorry, but morepoints i did not understand, really.

korm

In my opinion it is impossible to find out the real prices.

Let the game designers define the prices!

Everything else is, in my opinion, wasted time.

A price means, there is a buyer and a seller and both agree about the deal.

BUT: How should there be real prices, if most crafters produce everything by themselves? If most weapons, armors, etc. can be found in drops or during treasure hunting? From what should real prices result, if most crafters obtain all needed resource by themselves, including crafting items from other crafts? How should there be fair prices e.g. for food, if a npc in trolls bane sells food potions at 25 coppers and every idiot is able to cook the most filling meal (rabbit meals) by himself? How should it be possible for a low skilled crafter to earn some coins if everybody makes those low level items (e.g. bags, tools, etc.) by himself or those items are sold at a low price from npc's?

The whole system has to be evaluated: skilling, drops, production time, effort needed to gain resources, the monopol situation in some towns (as it was some months before; monopols are good for trades!) and many more to make Gobaiths economy fair.

This is neither a economy simulation game nor a strategy game and with this point of view I dont see a need to have everything balanced out perfectly.

If something is clearly illogically it is still possible to make a proposal or ask a dev.

Rosendil wrote: Let the game designers define the prices!

Oh why do we buy cake for one silver and 50 copper..aswell as soup...ahhh yes because the devs allready decided the price, heck yeah thats reasonable.

The normal price is easy to find out, just take ressourcecost of the item, this is why we need stable prices there, then add the work too it, higher skilled Items take more money, low items less and add both together= real price, but if you have ridicoulus prices, then noone will buy thats normal.

That most people get their ressources on their own, well I can understand them sligthly, but it also angers me at times, selling ressources for less than they normally would be worth jsut to even get them away, yes can be annoying on the other side most people craft and produce everything on their own because its just cheaper, than searching someone who has the ressources, this is because we can't recreat true real life situation, where noone could actually be a jack of all trades.

The only solution to this is a restriction of Skills, but this goes against Illarions purpose "be what you want to be", monopolizing might be good, but still people go simply against any logic to get what they want, just take glassblower for example, most aren't even inhabitans of Varshiakr and still they get sand from somewhere but instead of buying it they "steal" it, thus Varshikar looses much profit they could make from selling sand, but you can't restrict the acces to the desert like for example you can restrict the use of a mine.

Unless you change the thinking of Illarion players you will mostly do nothing with this "Crafters should buy their stuff from other people" discussion, but now back to the main topic.

The problem with the list is still that people, who have no idea of the true worth of the items, keep changing the list at their free will and as someone allready said, we have to beginn to change the prices, not the whole economy, because as it currently is everything goes as they want, people who have no idea of trading get pulled over the table because people go after npc prices so you have no chance...either buy them at overpriced traders or overpriced players.

Off topic:

If skilling as suggested in another thread had some components to make a percentage of it RP based (or time in game as some suggested), and if there was a skill cap for total skills that a player if desired could change by the gradual decreasing of one skill and increasing of another.... this would prevent a char from being excellent in all things, and possibly encourage those who did not want to skill in something, to buy.

As an example, the skill points/cap would encompass enough to be an excellent mage and possibly only fair in another area. A fighter, with only fair at lumberjacking (throwing a skill out there). An above average Blacksmith, above average Tailor but not excellent in either, or the PO could choose to be an excellent Blacksmith and only a fair tailor. Later, if the PO decided to change, they would reduce the skill in either/or both, and gradually increase it to another.

Oh why do we buy cake for one silver and 50 copper..aswell as soup

Back to topic:
My chars have quit eating strawberry cake being unable to aford it and not knowing anyone in game able to make it. But IMO, the pricelist is no good if anyone that wants to can change it. However, I can see the changes for different PO's depending on the skill, it may take some longer and be harder to do then others. Possibly a solution is to request that only those with above average skill in that area post in the pricelist, and anyone that posts, place the date and name of char?

Achae,

we, (four at the moment) are underway, to make a list, that can be altered just by few, but discussed by all.

if we will be able to put up a somewhat representative pricerange for every item, that can be used, to finetune the NPC merchants, so that they fir in with the prices players play to each other.

if you, or anybody else, can give some prices, please post them here:
http://kormsen.ko.funpic.de/forum/viewf ... 958bee6adc
(everybody can post there as guest)

korm
.

Sorry. I`m not able to post any REAL prices,
because i stopped somewhen to sell to unknown persons.

Furthermore i am not willing to spread my signatures any further,
then i am doing by now.




Its that simple.
Either i trade food for goods.

Or i give REAL prices, as i take coins, so that the trader(PC) makes the money.
Time to realize it, fellow players. This char WAS not greedy.
She WAS a dairy cow for each- and anyone. Who cares?
The tune made the music, and where was her magical flute in the end, eh?


All this talk about the evil, evil NPC trades would be void and nothing,
if people started to separate their NPC-money and re-invest it into a concerning town,
or spared it for building projects.

I`ve pressed about one goldcoin and a half from my own hands in the last 1 1/2 IG years.
The only coins i gave away from it i invested into several thread deals at a price of 5coins per step.
8/10 of it lies in the chief wharfingers office, for a building project, which will never be done.





@Pellandria;

So you are a humble peasant, dependant on selling your hard earned ressources to your same classed worker compaignons,
to buy strawberry cake at 1 SC 50 CC from the coins?
Hmm well.

Help the Varshikari get their fields, and stop lamenting m`kay?