Illarion.org

One more thing:

The developers and members of the foundation Illarion e.V. (staff) decide about what they develope and how the project works, not the players. Players only can make proposals but have no right to make final decisions about the game engine.

Non-binding polls of the staff about what players would like to have would be an other thing.

Lennier wrote:One more thing:

The developers and members of the foundation Illarion e.V. (staff) decide about what they develope and how the project works, not the players. Players only can make proposals but have no right to make final decisions about the game engine.

Non-binding polls of the staff about what players would like to have would be an other thing.

Aye, which brings back a quote from not too long ago,
'Illarion, a game made how the Devs want it, not the players.'

Wow, seems to me that noone really cares about Andrew's main point. I completely agree with him. If we can achieve the same result, by doing less skill gaining, it would be great. Easier leveling, and lower skill cap. Just til the new system finally gets here of course.

In case everybody has forgotten about the new system: A system where your ammount of time spent ingame will decide how much skill you gain a day. The metapoints gained will be devided into parts corresponding to the time you spent doing each skill. How long time you actually spend skillgaining is irrelevant (I think)

Dont forget about the first part of the post please. Andrew really has a point here. Shift klicking is no fun!

First, I like the idea of slightly faster skill gain. I do play a smith and a fighter with skills higher than the average character. Both are many months old(9+). The problem with smithing is the skill cap, well mining/smithing.

Anyways. I know a certain GM/DEV one that found it needed to boost their character's(Non-GM) skills up and they mentioned the reason was that they did not have enough time to RP and level that character.

Obviously, the food system is NOT the main problem here. It isn't that much different than the last one. I would prefer the last one, but I'll live.

@Hadiran(a late response) The food system is not the first proposal I dislike.

My words to this subject:

- the proposal board is ok

- players: don't make too many too compicated and difficult suggestions: there are MANY things that should be fixed first! (e.g. the reliability of the server ...)

- staff: make skill gain transparent (its ok, if it is slow, but as stated many times, it should be enough too work/fight/whatever only for a short time (30min/day?) to reach the skill cap/day - do not forbid powergaming but PLEASE MAKE POWERGAMING USELESS; my tailor works in my opinion a lot ... and it is really frustrating when other's new characters shortly reach my skill level ...)

PO Ros

Rosendil wrote:- staff: make skill gain transparent (its ok, if it is slow, but as stated many times, it should be enough too work/fight/whatever only for a short time (30min/day?) to reach the skill cap/day - do not forbid powergaming but PLEASE MAKE POWERGAMING USELESS; my tailor works in my opinion a lot ... and it is really frustrating when other's new characters shortly reach my skill level ...)

Exactly, 30mins to say 2 hours maybe. I really agree with this, as I had said in an earlier post. But seeing this little possibility to train, some rise in skillgaining should be accompanied.

Retlak wrote:We're not talking about making skill gain uber easy as you put it.

Let's figure that out in detail:

How fast should your skills raise? Say, you "train" 1-2 hours a day in average, how long should it take till you have 100% skill?
1 week?
2 weeks?
1 month?
2 months?
3? 4? 5?
A year?

As far as I am concerned, everything else is just ignorable discussion.

Martin

In my opinion, perhaps 2 months.

So long as the 100% is possible by then, and not near impossible once you hit 70% like the current system.

Why 2 months? Because It's not "forever". It's a decent time to get people into the skill without them losing interest due to lack of progress.

People would be happy with the progress and have something to look foreward to for a whole 2 months on end. People can gain skills at a reasonable speed when they want, and be able to play their character roles as they wish.

2 months is too little in my opinion.

Remember, we're talking about 1-2 hours

so a person who trains for say, 4 hours a day would finish in 15 days - 1 month...

I think 6 months is best.

2 months would be great.
It would allow the player to skill whenever. They wouldn't have to worry about not being able to RP their character how they'd like,

And be able to do it easier.

Haedrian has a point, BUT, it would be perfect if it wasn't allowed to train more than 2 hours. That's the point that I have been so long trying to make.

LOL. Sorry.

So, all you say is: We're not as patient as all the players of Tibia, Ultima Online, Priston Tale and so on.

Okay, there we go. 2 month you say, there you have it. The first one to complain about that afterwards gets a life time ban and I will set it by hand and set the status-comment myself. I think there's no need for further discussion.

Martin

Give a little more chance for discussion please. And opinions from other players too.

Wait wait...count this 2 month stuff then also for fighting skills?

This would be...bläh. Then every warriro will have a 100% skill and just the one with the better weapons will win. This wouldn't be good.

Deuce wrote:I think it would really suck if skill gain was too damn easy, and annoy the hell out of those that have spent the time and effort with the current system, in the end it would just take the fun (by fun, i really mean purpose and drive it gives you to succeed) out of it as everyone would be uber everything( newbies joining with no clue, running around dominating) and it would become boring and runeScape'ish.

I think people are just asking for an easy ride here, dont expect to play a month, or a week and become the strongest warrior, or greatest smith in all the land. Like Nitram said it can be rp'd, and thats what this game is all about isn't it? I understand that its impossible to rp with a warrior with no skills around a war like the one with trolls bane, but when things like this happen you just have to take it on the chin and practice untill you are good enough, because it IS possible.

Everything has to develop, and be experimented with to become better over time, with trial and error, and personally i dont think alot of people are giving it the chance to. This game has no 'real' limit as it where, so why would you like to give it one?
I wouldnt be surprised if the old system was still in place and everyone was complaining that it hadnt changed.

Patience is a virtue, think about it.

Alright ..I think it is the first time EVER I have agreed with Deucy.

concerning fighting and not crafting-

Personally Im content with how things are. The skill gain is boring and tedious just as anything you work and strive for should be, especially if it is something that could effect the well being of others "referring to clouding folks and they facing penalty for it". I have been around Illa for good two years now and having more or less played one char the entire time who has lived a very combat style life he is just now recognized as one of the more mastered fighters on the isle. I have attained the point Tally is at without spending hours upon hours power gaming in a crypt but instead simply role playing and fighting when the opportunity presents itself. Should I continue to play tally the way I do for another year I would imagine a few of his fighting skills being maxed. That would have been three years to fully master some fighting skills. If the game is intended to be long term then frankly I don’t see what the big fuss is about.

How fast should your skills raise? Say, you "train" 1-2 hours a day in average, how long should it take till you have 100% skill?

i see another point.
maybe, those (always same) players, that debate against every new thing, are just frustrated, that they do not see any achievement, after a training session.
i think, it might calm them down, by giving them sweets in form of readable skillpoints. so that they can look and think, - ah 50 points gained! enough for today. -

not everybody is mature enough, to handle a system where one can only estimate ones situation, compared to other players.

from your 'options' a year (at the LEAST). Look I've experimented with alot of mmorpg's, and illarion is by far the jewel of them all. we have to be careful when it comes to compromise in order to make the game more accessable to more people without ruining it, one compromise too far would cause the game to loose the magic that makes it a cut above the others. Yeah some people may be turned off/ turned away from the game because of certain aspects, but maybe alot of these people shouldnt be playing illarion in the first place - theres some people that dont want to role play/put in the effort...If you go to the gym for a week you arent going to look like a body builder, it takes time to achieve what you want by-passing the 'limitations, taking the time and effort needed for the result that you want...

I put in the effort, I have played and tried to get to where i want, perhaps it took me a while, but over time it becomes worth it, and the satisfaction that comes with knowing that the place you are in was hard to get to, but you are there, and it was all down to your effort is priceless.

whatever the devs decide i will stand by, as they havent let me down thus far. You only have to look at the beautiful world they have created to know that they will make the right decision whatever they decide.

I am preparing to have my inbox fill with hate mail now.

A year of 1 - 2 hours a day? I think that's too much.

I'd say 4 or 5 months, considering the char trains -every- day. But then again I'll repeat over and over again that I don't want to see it possible for people to train more than 2 hours a day.

I like ABC's Idea.
2 hours a day, then cap. 2 months to get 100% skill.

I <3 it.

Retlak wrote:I am preparing to have my inbox fill with hate mail now.

Oh -- I was just taking you as one example (the emphasize here lies on "one"). In fact, I could have quoted at least 20 other people, so please don't send poor Retlak your complaints. You can send them to me, I am a fast clicker when it comes to deleting messages *g*

Martin

I really don't want anything changed though if skill gain in fighting could be attained faster I think it should be through some form of roleplay such as a trainer or something of the sort.

from your 'options' a year (at the LEAST).

i agree with Deuce. and with his arguments given.

just think: two months playing 1 - 2 hours. an average 90 hours.
how will we have full developed chars, with personality, if they get tecnically boring after that short of a time?

Harder skill gain doesn't hurt powergamers and help everyone else, it's just the opposite

Skill training 1-2 hours a day for ONLY 2 months? We would have so many overpowered noobs so fast.

Years of training should be required to become good at anything. I say 6-9 months of 1-2 hour training should be enough...but not 2 months. Where, then, is the sense of accomplishment if everything is so easy?

Lord Arcia wrote:Skill training 1-2 hours a day for ONLY 2 months? We would have so many overpowered noobs so fast.

Years of training should be required to become good at anything. I say 6-9 months of 1-2 hour training should be enough...but not 2 months. Where, then, is the sense of accomplishment if everything is so easy?

Not all of us have so much free time in our lives as to spend 2 hours a day for around a year in order to be succesful.

Lord Arcia wrote:Skill training 1-2 hours a day for ONLY 2 months? We would have so many overpowered noobs so fast.

Years of training should be required to become good at anything. I say 6-9 months of 1-2 hour training should be enough...but not 2 months. Where, then, is the sense of accomplishment if everything is so easy?

I say 1/2-1 year with 1 hour training a day... At least not any longer.

Lord Arcia wrote:Skill training 1-2 hours a day for ONLY 2 months? We would have so many overpowered noobs so fast.

Years of training should be required to become good at anything. I say 6-9 months of 1-2 hour training should be enough...but not 2 months. Where, then, is the sense of accomplishment if everything is so easy?

The only real complaint i see lately is people wanting to be the best, and not be overtaken. 2 months is perfect time, those who have not much time to play can get good in an amount of time they like, those that do have alot of time to play, well, when they hit the limit, the other player catches up in a decent time. It eliminates powergamers being massively ahead or whatever.

Years of of training to become good at something, sure. if you want to spend years playing illarion for something and then suddenly think "wow, i have been bored all that time, i could have done something great in real life, but instead i had to spend a huge amount of my free time gaining skills in a game that won't change anything in the real world."

The sence of accomplishment? being able to say "I made it. without wasting time." - Which no one can say lately.

Skillgain

3 months to get max. 80% skilled, average trainig time 1 hour/day.

After that, every month max. 4% skillgain, training time 10 hours/month (more without effect); 0% for 1-10 hour/month; -2% < 1 hour/month


Maximum Skillpoints

Additionally the max. reachable skillpoints should be limited:
4 Skills * 100 % = 400% -> maximum 400 Skillpoints

This means: A character might have
- 4 Skills at 100% or
- 10 Skills at 40% or
- 2 skills at 100% , 1 skill at 50% and 10 skills at 25%
- and so on


What do you think?

Sounds like the only good skill gain suggestion here at this moment.

I like the way you think.