Illarion.org

@Estralis

This is stupid, since apparently to encourage PC-to-PC trade, the NPC traders have rather small amount of money to buy your things with. This means, that if somebody buys the loot that is dropped, chances are that he/she doesn't have money since as you point out, the monsters drop basically same things. The weight of the item bears no relevance to the actual value of the item. Why on earth would someone wanna drag a piece of metal out of the dungeon to some market 15min walk away when you get 4 coppers for it? The items are being sold to NPCs for coin anyway, so it's basically coins that they are getting anyway. There is simply more fuss and additional waiting and work involved with getting the coins at the end of the day. The fact that the monsters drop same items means basically that skeletons = ogres because the items are not worth using. If sold to NPC traders, the amount of money is the same. The fact that PC craftsmen produce and sell the same items and thus compete for the copper is not helping.

Fight stronger monsters for better loot? What is constantly forgotten is that while fighters earn their money, they gamble away their ability to make coin (=skills) and obscenely expensive tools (=items). Using cheaper, lower quality items is not really possible since there is a direct, drastic correlation between the gear that the warrior has and the amount of damage he deals / can receive (and thus the monsters he can fight / the skill he can gain / the money he can make / and the survivability). So why should I take a risk with a strong monster when the risk grows much bigger? And there is NO way you are getting that 15s piece of armor back if you are unlucky enough to die in the dungeon that is probably 10mins walking away from the nearest cross. Using that average sword will mean that 1.) Longer fight 2.) More damage on the rest of warrior's gear which is already uberexpensive 3.) Bigger chance of dying. My character is an Ok fighter, but he has to use good equipment with ogres and even then those are a challenge for him. Especially the mages. Using worse equipment would probably mean a difference between life and death, because I don't have any inside/special knowledge about the optimal fighter build/equipment (and for a fighter bad stats mean A LOT of dying.. or inability to defeat anything at all. Tried that.)..

Group-fighting? Sure, IF one is interested in spending all his/her peak online hours while fighting monsters. Personally I rather do it on the "3 people online" hours and spend the times when it's possible to find people by roleplaying. Fact is that if there is +10% more drops, it isn't going to be any better for three people, as you have to at the same time make money for three. Especially when the actual, monetary value of the items remains unchanged.

No, i realise the monsters drop different stuff, but it is worth exactly the same when selling to NPCs... So make them drop things that the npcs actually pay more for! Most of the things are really useless as noone buys them.

For example make ogres drop a lot more leather armour, the npcs pay a lot for that. What the item is, is really uninteresting as you dont use it, and noone but npcs buy them anyway. Til the flaws conserning the quality system are fixed, thats the way it has to be, isnt it?

Either put in coins, or put an NPC which buys things only fighters can get (I dunno, bounty hunters paying for troll scalps or summat).

The cash has to enter the economy SOMEWHERE.

Once again, I begin to understand. Is it consensus that the current "reward range" does not meet the existing "risk range"? So, some want to expand the "reward range" by making the value of the drop rely on dropped money. To be honest, I think this is too easy and will result in a huge inbalance when comparing fighters with other professions and a loose of "look and feel" of this unique game. So, I thought about more sophisticated solutions.

• NPCs pay for quality
  NPCs seem to be able to detect the quality of items inside a bag finally. From the new script functions, I can imagine a (primitive) way how one might be able to sell multiple items to a NPC with the NPC paying money, taking the quality into account. Please note that this is not a trivial line added to a script but quite some effort. However, this alone won't work since the quality hasn't that much an impact on the stats of an item
• NPCs pay fair rates
  This helps crafters and fighters as well. Currently, the prices NPCs pay are just some quickly made up values. If a NPC pays a price that is actually related to the value, one might be more wilingly to carry the monster drop and sell the stuff to NPCs. A good example is that somebody stated that ogres should drop more leather armor for the NPCs pay decent money for them, but not for the other dropped things. This shouldn't be the case in a perfect game. I once made up a price list, but with all those changes that took place in the meantime, this pricelist isn't worth the paper it is written on. I doubt I will have the time to look into this subject any time soon...
• NPCs actually buy monster dropped items
  Currently, one can sell only few items to NPCs. So, many items are regarded valueless. IMO, every non-raw, non-tool, non-intermediate item should be bought by a NPC. Somewhere. Together with fair rates, this might result in people appreciating dropped items.
• NPC money supply is adjustes
  Simply raising the restock of NPC money won't work. But making it more fast and add some more random to it could help the situation. I know it is very frustrating when the only NPC that buys a certain item is out of money and a line of customers that want to sell items to the NPC after the next restock has formed already. Currently, I don't have the background knowledge to elaborate this, but there seems to be a lever to pull here as well.
• Modify unrelated features
  It was stated serveral times that one risks his best armor and weapons in a fight for they break so fast. While wear is necessary and a good thing, slowing down the wear of certain item classes, as well as making all items wear off in a way, can help the situation.

Of course, balancing out the risk/reward ratio of the monsters has to be done. But from what I read in this topic, most think that the general level of reward for pwning monsters is too low, not that the reward of some monsters is too low while it is too high for others. Keep on elaborating your thoughts and think in wider scales - the term "inflation" should be taken into account when disussing money sources and sinks.

See: http://83.133.111.132/community/forums/ ... 928#440928

Just a few random ideas:

NPCs pay for quality

Half the time I drop full leatherarmor due to the weight and difficulty selling it, if an NPC buys on quality, and pays even less for it, another thing will be dropped. I usually drop all

So why should I take a risk with a strong monster when the risk grows much bigger?

I agree, and no longer go to some places to fight, even with a group.


If everyone is worried about fighters having too much coin, mine has been fighting for awhile now, and maybe can afford one excellent armor and weapons. I am curious, do the smiths have enough copper? They would normally get a lot from the fighters but at least in my case, I am making do with less and just not going to higher end areas (those that are harder and require better armor/shields/weapons).

I would like to see ig, an occasional drop of an NPC that is actually something worth keeping. Possibly an average or above average weapon/armor/food potion etc.

Instead of attempting to force RP in the fighter class by decreasing the gain and encouraging groups only to be able to go to some NPC's. Just simply encourage it by increasing the gain in some drops enough so it can be divided if a group happens to form.


A little off-topic but I would like to add this point

NPCs actually buy monster dropped items

Some fighter class background is not the "social" background of other chars. It would be nice if there was a place ig for those with this type of background could go to fight, argue, talk etc. and the "good" chars go at their own risk. This could be an area that also buys more things from the fighter class which no other place would?

Imagines a smithy hesitantly going to this area to attempt to sell their wares, the trepidation of a Druid being asked to see a char wounded in this area,

the RP could be interesting.

Juliana D'cheyne wrote:It would be nice if there was a place ig for those with this type of background could go to fight, argue, talk etc. and the "good" chars go at their own risk.

I think it's up to the players to create such a place

I would like to see ig, an occasional drop of an NPC that is actually something worth keeping. Possibly an average or above average weapon/armor/food potion etc.

Compete with something stronger than the usual troll-ogre-skeleton bunch and voila! Don't blame me that a) you cannot find proper monsters b) they are too strong

btw, the overall gain/reward was not decreased, never. It was rebalanced recently, resulting in some weak monsters dropping less (skeletons) and the stronger monsters dropping stuff of higher value. Example: In the old system, a demon could drop items with quality 666 ( ), now the quality is higher, with one type of demons dropping items of quality 999 only. In average, the reward was increased, but as I stated, most observations deal with lower class monsters.

I think it's up to the players to create such a place

The suggestion was of an NPC buying things from fighters...this would be a good place. It is also hard to create a place without a depot.

Compete with something stronger than the usual troll-ogre-skeleton bunch and voila! Don't blame me that a) you cannot find proper monsters b) they are too strong

Since I haven't tried it lately, but used to fight reds in the forest and quit due to the poor drop, things may have changed. I am also wondering what the items are valued at, if they are typically things a fighter would not carry due to weight or sale value. Like I said, I haven't tried them lately though, so it may have changed since then.

Ordinary demon skeleton: Quality 6-8. 9 is maximum. So, yes, it is worth it. I know that some monsters are friggin strong, compared to their drop, but again, that is due to the mismatch of the available reward range and the risk-range. Sure thing, one could make demon skeletons drop 4 silver each, but do we really want that? I mean, overskilled fighters (I am not using the term "powergamer") earning tons of silvers while the average crafter earns a shit from stitching some shoes?

Estralis Seborian wrote:Ordinary demon skeleton: Quality 6-8. 9 is maximum. So, yes, it is worth it. I know that some monsters are friggin strong, compared to their drop, but again, that is due to the mismatch of the available reward range and the risk-range. Sure thing, one could make demon skeletons drop 4 silver each, but do we really want that? I mean, overskilled fighters (I am not using the term "powergamer") earning tons of silvers while the average crafter earns a shit from stitching some shoes?

Average drop when last tried was about 2 copper more then regular skeleton... anywhere from 5-20 copper. Anyone tried more recently with the forest reds?

If the monetary system depends on the fighter due to all they need to buy, cutting that system would reduce it overall as I understand it? However, as I said just some random thoughts.

Erm, either, you are mistaken with 5-20 cp for a demon skeleton OR somebody else than me has changed the drops. Demon skeletons are supposed to drop 10-100 cp, usually 20-50, depending on the type of monster. For ordinary skeletons, my data reads 2-15. But again, the value of the dropped copper isn't ment to be the lion's share (can one say that in english?) of the total drop value but only a (minor) part of it.

OK, what should be changed now? What's out of balance?

Golem drops seem way to low 15-30 coppers is about what I have seen with on occasion a bottle or diamond with it. Seems much to low for the amount of damage those things dish out on equipment.

Estralis Seborian wrote:Erm, either, you are mistaken with 5-20 cp for a demon skeleton OR somebody else than me has changed the drops. Demon skeletons are supposed to drop 10-100 cp, usually 20-50, depending on the type of monster. For ordinary skeletons, my data reads 2-15. But again, the value of the dropped copper isn't ment to be the lion's share (can one say that in english?) of the total drop value but only a (minor) part of it.

OK, what should be changed now? What's out of balance?

Testing it again today:

I got 4 skele's dropping 3 copper, 2 dropped 12, all the other things but full leatherarmor (1) and raw bluestones (2) were thrown away. Average drop of skele may not pay for a weaker fighter's potion and doesn't allow for wear on weapon or armor IMO.

With the red, fighting alone taking one potion, I got a fair-good serinjah, and 23 copper. It was fine and would be a good challenge for two chars.

@Estralis

I just wanna clarify something, hence these questions:

1. The problem is that certain characters are stocked with money, meaning that money stacks into the depot and does nothing?
2. You want that similiar skill craftsman makes equal amount of money in equal time as a warrior?
3. .. However, the risk that crafstmen have is totally nonexistent when compared to the risk of fighters in their 'craft'?
4. Warriors have to spend more money on equipment than craftsmen? (who, often are nice combos like miner/smith, lumberjack/carpenter.. thus eliminating a good chunck of the actual production cost of their products and increasing their profit margins when they sell the item?)
5. The equipment quality has tremendous effect on fighting abilities? (thus it encourages the fighters to buy the expensive things for sake of survivability and efficiency?)
6. The expensive equipment of fighters has to be replaced as it wears down? (Thus, it's actually a necessary but not-so-good long term investment of money?)
7. Fighters buy 90% their stuff from craftsmen?
8. Now, which types of characters are more likely to collect the huge stacks of coins into their depots?

I hope this helped to solve where the coins might be laying around.
It's just not the "how much can Y earn in comparison to Q in X time" - factor you should be focusing on, but also where the money goes or doesn't go after it has been made by Q and Y. Does it keep on changing hands or does it just pile in the depots? Fighters are spending money now, because it's necessary for the class. What you ought to do is to figure out something that would make the crafters spend their money as well. (and not something that makes production of items more expensive, as that will simply be followed by a correlating increase in the 'retail' prices of the products, thus screwing the warriors over in the end anyway. )


I'm not saying that you should increase the value of the loot enormously, but what I am saying is that you probably don't wanna give crafters any more handouts. Make the loot really worth it ocasionally.. Make even skeletons drop some good stuff with very low percentages (see: WoW, it works ). Make some unique drops (used by crafters or sold to npcs, troll ears or whatever) and create more variation from monstertype to monstertype, stuff which is sellable to merchants. Make sure that the loot properly adjusted to the effort, so that normal skeleton doesn't drop 5 and golem 20 coins (and just for the record, it doesn't always have to mean that you *lower* the loot-amount of the low-end monsters.. not always anyway ) and that the players actually notice the change of value in monsterdrops.

@ Estralis:

thank you for listening first and foremost. I understand completely what you are saying about the monster drops in relation to coins. I don't want to see skeletons, gnolls, ogres, or any other NPC that one character can kill drop excessive amounts of copper, this discourages RP. However, for NPCs that cannot be killed by one character (e.g. "the improved" necromancer demon skeleton, Dragons, Demons, and Beholders) these NPCs do need to drop coins enough that the amount of fighters that killed it would have an even share. Easily RPable, Dragons horde gold (duh), the necro demon is at the very end of the crypt with 8 chests once he is dead obviously he should have a great deal of loot, Demons perhaps not coins (dont know how the GMs view demons and have never fought nor seen one) but the rarest of weaponry and items. Finally the beholder no idea never faced one nor what the hell it is but I know it looks like a green plant with tentacles.

RP for fighters IMO has always been at the highest when with a group. And to have a group you must have NPCs that only a group can kill. But you must not as Estralis put it farm these NPCs. With dragons that can be made simple as they have from what I heard 5 levels of strength you kill a lower level one and it is immediately replaced with the strongest one (which I have heard is nearly impossible to kill). At a later date a GM can replace the uberdragon (and the ig characters wont know which they are facing) RPable as well, you kill the dragon named Heartstring but his older brother or father Smog comes to avenge him.

As for the Demon Necromancer IMO the easiest solution was not to make him uber powerful but to just have two demon warriors spawn in the room with him. Also instead of having the necro demon spawn in the same room with the chests allow him to spawn in the blood alter room with two more demon skeletons. That way there could be no farming the necro. You and 4 others make it to the chest room and kill the necro good but then he spawns in the blood alter room now you have to kill all the demons in the hallway again then kill the warriors in the alter room ((or where ever you want to spawn him, or make his spawn longer than the demon warriors that protect him)) with any of these ideas farming the necromancer is eliminated yet you are rewarding characters that fight together in a group all in the same.

In any movie, video game, or even real life there are always people protecting their leader or treasure. This is not the case generally on illarion. Exceptions: The Graveyard, I believe this is one the perfect examples that we have IG of what I am talking about. You have a 15 min walk to the strongest NPC on the way you face the weakest mummies, then skeletons, followed by skeleton mages (less you go the back way) then demon skeletons, and finally the good ole necromancer and demon necromancer. With this scenario GMs can make the best drops for the end ((copper and items)) leaving only the experienced adventures in a "GROUP" to make it all the way through and out!.

This however is not the case for Ogres, Trolls, Bandits, Goblins, or Gnolls. I see it quite difficult for Estralis to assign these hordes with exceptional loot when one character can go luring out these NPCs one at a time. Obviously good for training, but the way they are now it would lead to PGing and solo looting quests. I do believe some suggestions might help bring balance. A.) make one of the spawned NPCs the chieftain (or in the case of magical NPCs Shaman) who carries the best loot while the others protect him or her. B.) I doubt very much that if there was a group of gnolls and one of them saw you that he would go chasing you down without all the others chasing you down too. Don't know if either of these suggestions would be easy to script but Estralis you asked for detailed suggestions.

This goes along with graveyard example, currently I know of three prime places that could be used for NPC lairs. The abandoned mine on Tol Vanima (once saw quest screenshots from that mine that included: Ogres and Drows) I believe this mine could easily be turned into a lair. (I know weapons are not allowed on tol Vanima, but I seriously doubt the elves would like such a terrible infestation near their beloved city)

Also there is the mine right next to the Ogres, I have never been down there since it is blocked but am sure it could be a lair for Ogres instead of them wandering around aimlessly in the snow .

And then there is my personal favorite the Dragon Lair . Could easily house the fiendest spawns of hell on Gobaith! Only the most advanced warriors, Knights, mages, and adventures could survive it if that is how you would want it *shrugs*

Oh and there is also hell briar covered by a giant rock. Could be a spiders den or something I suppose.

Here we go my final remarks on helping the fighter characters while maintaining RP and Economic balance on this thread. Guilds and organizations on Gobaith as far as I can see suck...... I know Siltaris would love to have more guards and no doubt there is not a REAL ACTIVE knighthood on Gobaith.

What is Illarion ?
Illarion is an online role playing game in the original sense of roleplaying. In this game,
you have to play, or better : act your character, who is a person living in a medieval themed
fantasy world

*laughs* A medieval fantasy world where the knighthoods have 5 active players ((rough guess)). I would like to suggest to all you people with mounds off gold in your depots to buy some land and start a REAL knighthood. Become a Lord and give these damned rogue warriors some direction (and RP)! Perhaps the GMs could ease the burden on one person starting and carrying the workload for a knighthood, fighters guild, or dark knighthood *sighs*

currently... fighters buys stuff from crafters... we should make that crafters needs to buy stuff that can only be gain by killing some monsters.

At the moment... i'm thinking about crystalized souls from monsters... basically each monsters have it. And different type of monster drops different kind of crystal (just name wise). Ex: mummy crystal, skeleton crystal, etc... There is... pure crystal, it's.. a rare crystal for crafter to use in making hard item, currently there is shield of the sky... magical elven armor, you get the point

For the usage, there will be NPC who will store this crystals. This NPC will collect the crystals and will offers items for fighters. The items can be a rare material that can be obtained by this mean that is used for crafters (pure elements? or maybe some other raw material) and... for buying armors and weapons from the NPC or... exchange it for money (just in case the fighter in need of money fast). The raw materials are the current ones such as wood, ores... anything. So fighters can sell the raw materials or the crystals to crafters as well

NPC wise: The NPC will trade items for the crystals, take the crystals, return the crystals (selling crystals to other players), buy crystals. IMO, there shouldn't be limit for the number of items (just log the trading... and adjust the crystals needed, like fluctuating economy).

Slightly troublesome to implement would be... we... currently have those fire and lightning type magical weapons which can't be manufactured currently. And... pure elements are only for making wands which only mages use. These pure elements can be another ingredients for those magical weapons. Means... smiths will try to buy them from fighters.

Maybe super armors such as magical elven armor... can have magical properties? like if it uses pure fire element, it can resist more fire base magic... and less for other base magics etc... Pure crystal... can resist all magic evenly but not as much...

Basically... it only need 1 new graphic and the rest... can be dealt with just text description at least for fast implementation ^.^

Crystals in this case is not the same as money, since money... we can get it from normal NPCs (mainly for crafters). As for crystals... it would only be possible from killing monsters.

mm... while i'm posting... maybe crystalized troll blood? :p

Sorry... if it's somewhat confusing... but i hope you get the idea... With this, the crafters would need to buy something from fighters... in hope that the money would circulate and not stuck in the bottom of the crafters' depot. Altho... in the end the crafters would still gain more money, but at least those money would go around even if it's only for a bit.

1. The problem is that certain characters are stocked with money, meaning that money stacks into the depot and does nothing?

That is indeed a problem, but not the problem and I don't estimate the influence of this money being high on the economy. However, the more money is in circulation, the better. I mean, it is more motivating when you can actually save money for a higher goal instead of storing it in your depot. I don't quite see the relation to monster drops, though - monster drops are a vital money- and item source in this game, almost every item in the game can be obtained by slaying monsters. That was not the case back in tgod, and I think it is better the way it is now.

2. You want that similiar skill craftsman makes equal amount of money in equal time as a warrior?

For the same effort, one should gain the same reward. Currently, it is e.g. much simple to obtain a simple serinjahsword by slaying monsters than by crafting, but obtaining a very good plate mail is virtually impossible by slaying monsters. It is beyond my skills to make this match.

3. .. However, the risk that crafstmen have is totally nonexistent when compared to the risk of fighters in their 'craft'?

Again, for me, it is a matter of effort. Of course, a fighter has to spend effort to get equipment, get the necessary skill after being clouded once in a while etc. But again, I doubt there will ever be the case that every profession can make the same money with the same effort. But the order of magnitude should match. I guess that is the case atm.

4. Warriors have to spend more money on equipment than craftsmen? (who, often are nice combos like miner/smith, lumberjack/carpenter.. thus eliminating a good chunck of the actual production cost of their products and increasing their profit margins when they sell the item?)

That's sad, indeed. In special, armor and weapons seem to wear off quite fast.

5. The equipment quality has tremendous effect on fighting abilities? (thus it encourages the fighters to buy the expensive things for sake of survivability and efficiency?)

Tremendous not, but there is an effect one can notice. Ask Nitram for details

6. The expensive equipment of fighters has to be replaced as it wears down? (Thus, it's actually a necessary but not-so-good long term investment of money?)

That is a feature of Illarion, yes. You know, the create a demand. I just fear that the speed of wear is too high currently.

7. Fighters buy 90% their stuff from craftsmen?

I don't think so. At least I couldn't be bothered to buy every item from a PC while I get tons of free items from monsters.

8. Now, which types of characters are more likely to collect the huge stacks of coins into their depots?

Craftmen for they are able to sell their stuff to PCs and don't require many goods themselves. How can we solve this?

*reads the other posts*[/i]

Hmm, I like the idea with rare drops having a higher value than ordinary drops. Even though I doubt anyone will notice this Currently, every monsterrace has 45 (9 for each type of monster) rare drops that are dropped at a rate of 1%. Feel free to suggest which monster should have which rare drop, modifying this in order to make slaying monsters more attractive is something I really support.

I share the point of view that crafters have certain benefits compared to fighters. But I don't have a solution for this. Maybe the change in the skill system will help the situation, but I am at a loss with this topic. The good thing is that fighters are a driving force of the economy, even though they are hampered a bit too much. You know, the more gaming necessary, the less RP possible.

For the whole drop issue, it would be best if you name the monsters that are inbalanced and how you would change this. Please, think about other methods than "let them drop more coins", this is one way, but not the only one. We have ways like letting merchants pay more, buy more, buy the items actually, static quests, combining items to more valuable items and so on. Or, even better, think about other ways a fighter can get stuff apart from monster drop. Like treasure chests in dungeons n' stuff. That is a good approach, something our devs should have a look into.

By the way, if you feel a monster is out of balance but need details on the drops, feel free to ask. I am the last one who says everything is perfect, but some suggestions I read won't lead to a better situation IMHO.

PS: The golem example is a nice one: the first version of golems dropped some silver coins only (I wasn't responsible for this). Everyone and the pope complained that this is out of balance for golems can be wiped quite fast in case one knows how. So, I added gems, rocks and fitting items and reduced the amount of dropped money. But still, compared to the effort a skilled <fill in the profession that can slaughter golems in no time> has to spend, it is quite a lot. For an ordinary fighter, of course, the effort is huge and the reward laughable.

I beleive the skeleton (in the mummy temple) need to have a BIT more coins dropped.

I killed a few with someone else and they were dropping 4 coins, 6 coins...

I think the amount of coins a skeleton should drop is from 10-15...

Also I don't know why skeletons drop uncut gems, if they were burried with them, they'd probably be cut.

-
I'd also lyke it if the 'special item' probability was increased, I like chance...

Why do you want to increase the amount of dropped coins for skeletons? Please elaborate.

And... raising the probability for a rare drop from now 3*1% to e.g. 10% contradicts the term "rare", or am I wrong?

well, undead monsters should have, what they were buried with. at most two coins on the eyes, and one on the tongue.
instead of coins, they should have jewellery. (that could be molten down to matals by jewellers)
and sometimes some expensive ceremonial arms.
---------

but a more basic question:
why should everyone in illarion become rich?

Estralis Seborian wrote:Why do you want to increase the amount of dropped coins for skeletons? Please elaborate.

Because mummies sometymes drop swords which can be sold for around 10 copper, and skeletons are harder to kill... and a not-so-higher-level fighter would need more coins..

And... raising the probability for a rare drop from now 3*1% to e.g. 10% contradicts the term "rare", or am I wrong?

It'll make things more random, and random means fun... I think 5% is better, 1 in 20..

but a more basic question:
why should everyone in illarion become rich?

Because people lyke having somethign to show for the hours of practice...

Hmm, serinjahswords are dropped by mummies for "traditional reasons" only. The quality is worse, but once again, that items can or cannot be sold at NPCs for high, low or whatever prices isn't what I would make the monster drops depend on. The current NPC stocks are more or less random.

I repeat myself: Skeletons are very weak monsters in the available monster range. Raising the amount of dropped copper would result in me having to raise all copper values of the stronger monsters, too, to keep the balance. I disagree with the drops of skeletons being unbalanced, compared to the majority of monsters. I agree with demon skeletons being underrated, though.

Edit: Sorry, I misinformed you. The chance that a monster drops a rare drop is 3*3*1%. For each category (weapon, armor, stuff), there are 3 rare drops with a probability of 1% each.

Estralis, what do you think of "Lairs" or "Dens" to encourage characters to go in a "GROUP" (see my previous post for more info)? Again I feel my very best times as a fighter is being along side 3 or 4 others discussing tactics and RPing. I do enjoy the graveyard but that is the same ole same ole. If you want to reward "RP" on illa I think you should encourage fighters to seek out groups to fight with or not make any loot. Again as in my previous post if the grandest and rarest of loot is at the very end of a long lair that takes 5 people to get to I believe characters will begin to rely upon each other and less on their individual skills.

Also today I will fight every NPC on the map and give an opinion on drops. But I like you Estralis don't much care about drops so much as RP. I would love to see another merchant like the one at the harbor who buys wolf fur! that is a Beautiful example of NPC work but rarely used. Perhaps a simple quest I will PM my ideas to you.

By the way, if you feel a monster is out of balance but need details on the drops, feel free to ask

Perhaps you can give us a hand with it? Show approximately how the monsters are 'ranked' in difficulty-loot-whatever-ratio so we know what to expect.

Golems:

Today I went hunting golems with 3 other people. Golems are a bit hard, and we killed two, and we used 2 healing potions...

Total spoils: 41 coins and a gem

that's 10 coins each...

Can they start dropping at least a silver?

>.< Stop killing Golems. The just want to live in peace... you're such a cruel person.

Well, why should a Golem drop silver coins? Better would be for exampel, if he drops more gems, ores and stuff like that, but not to much.
An Exampel: 3 gems, 5 ores, and well a few cooper coins....or so

a moment ago:
4 sceletons - 21 copper, two stones, one chain helmet and a really shitty snakesword.
13 mummies - 9 innards, bowl, 1 very bad woodsman axe, 3 cloth, 2 very,very bad wooden shields, 1 parchment, 1 trousers, 1 bad serinjahsword

Jupiter wrote:Well, why should a Golem drop silver coins? Better would be for exampel, if he drops more gems, ores and stuff like that, but not to much.
An Exampel: 3 gems, 5 ores, and well a few cooper coins....or so

For the rsame reason he drops copper coins.

I don't like the idea of them dropping ores. A fighter is a FIGHTER, he shouldn't have to get ores...

Give fighters something they can USE; lets say he gets 5 ore... a miner can get 5 ore very easily...and I miner didn't go breaking down golems. Also, which kind of fighter is going to cart around 5 ore to sell? PLease give us items that 1) Fighters can use, or sell with ease 2) Are light to carry.

After ~25 Gnolls.

Mace 3
Shortsword 2
Shoes 2
Chain Helmet 3
Chainmail 1
Leather legs (short) 2
Morning star 4
Longsword 3
Serinjah sword 1
Total items 21

Average items 2 (both morning stars, all others are labeled worse)


Additional loot
Steak 8 (+ the considerable amount that had to be used there)

Too little, if you ask me. Gnolls aren't *that* easy and are particularly pain in the ass to escape from. Consider the time I'd have to spend running around the island to sell that miserable junk to the merchants that are in the opposite corners of the map, if such merchants who buy some of those things even exist. I'd get more money for my chara by cutting up pigs and selling the stuff that comes out of them, really..

Edit: I guess that the monetary worth of an average drop would be something like 4-8 coppers. You basically have to use every another piece of steak that they drop to keep the stamina up.