Illarion.org

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 7:22 am**

Time to "Dusty-fy" this.

Dyluck wrote:Nobody would have bought the insurance from some stranger on a small island with no way to see his legitimacy. This is true from both from a character and a player's point of view, and I'm sure that had any of you been given the same proposition, you would have reacted exactly the same way.

Ha! Unlike some players, I do like to go along with new ideas. I would have asked more about it, suggested improvements, and maybe even joined in the enterprise! Good ideas happen all the time, why not 'insurance'?
It's called Role-play.

Dyluck wrote:Can any of you honestly say that you believe this incident was meant to create more fun for players and just coincidentally happened to be tested on Patric of all players? You honestly believe that this particular incident was done out of good will and the belief that the player would enjoy it?

Yes, I do. Patric, of all the players has been the most vocal about 'quests'. He has been here for five years! He would be the player most capable to 'test' this on. Besides, his character "Samantha" was the most powerful mage in the game. Now we know a powerful mage can't stop a fire like this, so I suppose that information will be useful to the Dev's.

As far as more fun, yes. This new feature of 'Fire' will balance out the crazy 'building' spree everyone seems to have gotten. Everyone's trying to build. There's gotta be dangers ya know. That makes it more fun I think.

Dyluck wrote:I'm very disappointed to see that some of you have had your judgement clouded by a grudge or dislike of a player again. Normally I don't say anything about this community's disputes anymore, but it saddens me to see some of the reactions/lack of reactions that are obviously due to personal feelings towards Patric which should have no bearing on how you see the magnitude of this incident, regardless of how antagonizing he is. Stop being distracted with irrelevant personal history and pointless rhetoric discussions.

Awww.......If we can't openly discuss how we feel as players, then what's the point of a player's forum?
I don't know patric, and have never met the man. I just detest how he plays his characters----namely Samantha. If that's called a grudge, I'm guilty. I call it a "Personality Conflict".

As far as lack of reactions.......Did you really expect otherwise? Come on, Patric has probably made more enemies over the years than PO Stephen Rothman did!

Innocent bystander sees Lady Meryledes walking by....

"Hello", says the bystander

She turns with fire in her eyes as she pulses heat from her fingers....

"You will call me LADY!!!"

She leaves as the pile of ashes that was the bystander blows away into the wind.

I think I'll leave your little poll.....
~Unsigned~

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 7:29 am**

Juniper Onyx wrote:Time to "Dusty-fy" this.

Dyluck wrote:Nobody would have bought the insurance from some stranger on a small island with no way to see his legitimacy. This is true from both from a character and a player's point of view, and I'm sure that had any of you been given the same proposition, you would have reacted exactly the same way.
Ha! Unlike some players, I do like to go along with new ideas. I would have asked more about it, suggested improvements, and maybe even joined in the enterprise! Good ideas happen all the time, why not 'insurance'?
It's called Role-play.

Dyluck wrote:Can any of you honestly say that you believe this incident was meant to create more fun for players and just coincidentally happened to be tested on Patric of all players? You honestly believe that this particular incident was done out of good will and the belief that the player would enjoy it?
Yes, I do. Patric, of all the players has been the most vocal about 'quests'. He has been here for five years! He would be the player most capable to 'test' this on. Besides, his character "Samantha" was the most powerful mage in the game. Now we know a powerful mage can't stop a fire like this, so I suppose that information will be useful to the Dev's.

As far as more fun, yes. This new feature of 'Fire' will balance out the crazy 'building' spree everyone seems to have gotten. Everyone's trying to build. There's gotta be dangers ya know. That makes it more fun I think.

Dyluck wrote:I'm very disappointed to see that some of you have had your judgement clouded by a grudge or dislike of a player again. Normally I don't say anything about this community's disputes anymore, but it saddens me to see some of the reactions/lack of reactions that are obviously due to personal feelings towards Patric which should have no bearing on how you see the magnitude of this incident, regardless of how antagonizing he is. Stop being distracted with irrelevant personal history and pointless rhetoric discussions.
Awww.......If we can't openly discuss how we feel as players, then what's the point of a player's forum?
I don't know patric, and have never met the man. I just detest how he plays his characters----namely Samantha. If that's called a grudge, I'm guilty. I call it a "Personality Conflict".

As far as lack of reactions.......Did you really expect otherwise? Come on, Patric has probably made more enemies over the years than PO Stephen Rothman did!

Innocent bystander sees Lady Meryledes walking by....

"Hello", says the bystander

She turns with fire in her eyes as she pulses heat from her fingers....

"You will call me LADY!!!"

She leaves as the pile of ashes that was the bystander blows away into the wind.

I think I'll leave your little poll.....
~Unsigned~

DUUUH!!!

I duhh sign it!/////

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 7:45 am**

Juniper Onyx wrote:Time to "Dusty-fy" this.

Dyluck wrote:Nobody would have bought the insurance from some stranger on a small island with no way to see his legitimacy. This is true from both from a character and a player's point of view, and I'm sure that had any of you been given the same proposition, you would have reacted exactly the same way.
Ha! Unlike some players, I do like to go along with new ideas. I would have asked more about it, suggested improvements, and maybe even joined in the enterprise! Good ideas happen all the time, why not 'insurance'?
It's called Role-play.

Dyluck wrote:Can any of you honestly say that you believe this incident was meant to create more fun for players and just coincidentally happened to be tested on Patric of all players? You honestly believe that this particular incident was done out of good will and the belief that the player would enjoy it?
Yes, I do. Patric, of all the players has been the most vocal about 'quests'. He has been here for five years! He would be the player most capable to 'test' this on. Besides, his character "Samantha" was the most powerful mage in the game. Now we know a powerful mage can't stop a fire like this, so I suppose that information will be useful to the Dev's.

As far as more fun, yes. This new feature of 'Fire' will balance out the crazy 'building' spree everyone seems to have gotten. Everyone's trying to build. There's gotta be dangers ya know. That makes it more fun I think.

Dyluck wrote:I'm very disappointed to see that some of you have had your judgement clouded by a grudge or dislike of a player again. Normally I don't say anything about this community's disputes anymore, but it saddens me to see some of the reactions/lack of reactions that are obviously due to personal feelings towards Patric which should have no bearing on how you see the magnitude of this incident, regardless of how antagonizing he is. Stop being distracted with irrelevant personal history and pointless rhetoric discussions.
Awww.......If we can't openly discuss how we feel as players, then what's the point of a player's forum?
I don't know patric, and have never met the man. I just detest how he plays his characters----namely Samantha. If that's called a grudge, I'm guilty. I call it a "Personality Conflict".

As far as lack of reactions.......Did you really expect otherwise? Come on, Patric has probably made more enemies over the years than PO Stephen Rothman did!

I think I'll leave your little poll.....
~Unsigned~

Your first Dustyfaction point.. man i just say remember that this is medival.. eventhough this is a fantasy roleplay there are certain borders, and this insurance thing is definatly above it like calling a company T&M Trading.. ask Damien, our backround specialist and he will agree, this is one of the badest ideas ever came up...
thats lying beside the fact that this "idea" was more invented for telling afterwards "well shit happens you should've bought it."

second point of your failed try to be like Nitram:
Read the topic once more, those fires were spawned. The idea wasn't to test the new feature, but burning the house down of a player.

last point and probably the worst of all:

FInally you are coming with the actual reason for all this posted bullshit. You have a personality conflict with the way he plays his Characters. Patric as probably paid and invested more time in this game than any other, characters have history with his chars. He always supported and were standing behind correct RP. His complaining about certain actions of my chars probably gave me the right nudge to play it right.. and i know many players feel the same about this. Just ask his students..

And that is what Stephen Rothman actually got banned for..

To be honest, i believe that there is a glint of jealousy i read between all your lines. And i understand that, i feel the same if my characters dont get involved because Patric gets involved in all the action. But he stays within his chars and keeps by the rules more than any other char. That is probably the reason why his house has to be burned down to make him leave, to make it look correctly and it seriously pissing me off that you are supporting that shit.

glad you left our little poll,

Still /signed for Dyluck

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 7:53 am**

Calm down everybody, please.

This happening will be discussed in the staff.
There are for sure good reasons that it was done like it is and you will be told.

But it won't help anybody if you all freak out now.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 7:56 am**

Arien Edhel wrote:
This happening will be discussed in the staff.

thats all i wanted to hear

thank you

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:11 am**

Ok, while this will make me late for work, I feel I have a need to post this now.

Martin, please stop yourself from lying. From the first time we saw flames, to the point where they went out, was all of about 3 mins. With a small fire outside the building turning into a raging inferno within seconds, and Samantha put out all the flames on the lower level, then suddenly they were all back. Then I got trapped on a balcony upstairs, and she came to rescue me, putting out all the flames in the corridor, and once again within seconds the room was full again. Between my walking from the balcony along the corridor was all of 6 steps and I was back in the middle of the fire.

Not to mention this came without warning, fine if it had happened to a publicly owned building like the shop, or the jail. But no, you picked a private building, owned by a player who spent 700 silvers on it.

What a pathetic way to make an example, not to mention the abuse of interrupting by 'accidentally' teleporting Samantha out of the building so she was forced into contact with your sales man. Instead of just putting her back where she came from, you intentionally put her outside. So the PO had no choice but to speak the the insurance sales man.

There is absolutely no way that fire could have been stoppable because whenever you put all the fires out more just reappeared.

However that said, I see the potential this has, the problem is, it seems that it could be so easy to abuse, there is absolutely no point in it, I could just walk around the whole island starting campfires in buildings and destroy everything in the game. So the only way it could be played fairly would be to have it gm controlled.

Also I don't mind you testing things out. But that was never a test, that was a premeditated attack on a player owned building. The player was not warned in advance, the first we knew was when we saw some flames on the outside of the building. So why the mansion Martin? Why not a public building like the shop? What possible reason do you have for making this selection?

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:20 am**

I guess if you don't like what you're reaping, you should be more careful about what your sowing. We are all people here, Martin and Vilarion are too, and now your judging them GUILTY of abuse with what, your opinion? They disagree, you haven't any moral highground there.

To quote the bible:

excerpt from Galatians wrote: The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction;

Has the bible fortold the burning of Samantha's house? The world may never know.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:22 am**

So, you think that teleporting a player out of a private building while in the middle of rp, and then telling the PO it was an accident, then teleporting her back outside the building, where it just so happens a GM controlled character happens to be waiting? That is one hell of a convenient accident.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:23 am**

I think Arien can close this topic if we are starting to get all biblical ...

WTF?!?!

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:30 am**

Enwell van Illdoran wrote:I think Arien can close this topic if we are starting to get all biblical ...

WTF?!?!

Can't help it, when you start judging right and wrong you get into morality, when you get into morality you get into religion and philosophy. But I don't think you should be silencing my opinions just because I quote something with a objective moral law, something you've yet to produce for evidence to proove your judgements against Martin and Vilarion.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:35 am**

I prefer to use my common sense to judge than using religous guidelines.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:44 am**

Enwell van Illdoran wrote:I prefer to use my common sense to judge than using religous guidelines.

Then you only have a biased judgement to go off of. Ironic, isn't that what you've accused these people of, having a bias twards this person? Again, you haven't any way to proove your right.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 8:45 am**

Thank you Dantagon and enwell to fight for me...but please don't bring yourself in troubles. if you anger martin too much, he may also try something like that with you. and i dont want you to get troubles.

Dusty, are you any time soon finished with writing mean stuff here just because you are jealous? i mean, you haven't written more until now then lies and jealous nonsense. it must really rankle yourself what i achieved with samantha and you not with dusty. you shouldn't complain about others how they play their chars. i think you should have more a look on your own char. at least other chars DO have a fitting role and background, and are not just tools for powergaming, without any clear characteristics visible. at least none other than greed.

Thanks Tanaki for proving that martin lied with stating i could have put the flames out. but i am sure the server loggs will show the same. i wouldnt even wonder if he, the invisible martin, aroused the flames himself ones i had put them far enough out.

this was anything else then a test. tests are done at the testserver. they attacked me with this. they started this knowing i have no chance to do anything against its effect. and their only intention was it to give me frustration and to destroy something i achieved in this game. from the beginning i had no real chance to have the mansion not be burned down.

btw. the mansion has not just a single inhabitant. three chars are living currently in it. or lived. when it got owned and rebuilt by samantha it were even 5. and i think such a mansion is...was...very fitting for a char like Samantha. After all she is a powerful and rich mage, the magistrate of a town and a former duchess from salkamaer. why should she not have such a mansion? but of course others can't accept if someone has more than themselfs. i worked hard with samantha to achieve what she achieved in this game. i worked damn hard. i had not 20 powergamed skills like dusty to make money, or a char who has simply NO characteristics which could give you borders in the way to earn money. i were not slaying monsters hours for hours to get the money for her building. she got everything through roleplay, not through skills. and yes, even when she COULD cast food, she earned just a little bit of her money with that.
it hit me hard to lose with her all the items i proudly gathered over the years with her. all the items from quests, or items she bought ingame for her hard earned money. but that was not enough for martin, no...he also had to take me the building about which i was so happy. he had to destroy samanthas home. sure, maybe she could have enough money to rebuilt it. but after that she would be for sure broke. and i dont see why i should again lose something for which i worked hard just because of martin and his ideas.
i am surprised that he hasn't simply deleted her skills by accident, or all she possesses in her depot. but maybe that would have been too obvious, even for him.

this was simply a foul play. a put-up play to destroy my fun at the game. but i have my pride. i have a strong feeling for justice and fairness. and i simply can't agree with this, nor can i accept it. i will never accept injustice and live with it.

so write what you want to write. i dont care anymore. martin and vilarion have simply destroyed for me a game which i played for the last 5 years. for which i dedicated so much of my time. and why? just because they don't like me in privat.
But martin, i am sure you are very thankfull that you live far far away from me, right? i wonder if you would have such a big mouth while standing infront of me. but well, we all know that you have just a big mouth in the forums, hidden behind your account and a few hundred kilometres. it doesn't surprises me that someone like you uses such cheap tricks against others, instead of showing some bravery or even backbone.
i am sure in the school you was the one telling everything to the teachers if someone was mean to you or did something wrong, instead of standing up yourself and doing something on your own.

But maybe one day in life we meet again , THEN you can show me if you are really a man with guts. Since i will for sure test it.

Patric

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 9:32 am**

As I said, please calm down.

After reading all this I thought the whole building burned down to its foundation walls.
But after being ingame I found some walls missing.

Don't you think there will be a solution if you discuss objective?

And now I have to go to work to calm down my customers.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 9:45 am**

the walls are not the problem. the whole missing interior and parts of the house is the problem. the house is nothing more than a burned out ruin.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 9:46 am**

Gro'bul wrote:
Enwell van Illdoran wrote:I prefer to use my common sense to judge than using religous guidelines.
Then you only have a biased judgement to go off of. Ironic, isn't that what you've accused these people of, having a bias twards this person? Again, you haven't any way to proove your right.

just waiting for server logs so stop bothering.
a biased judgement. well i have acused the people of being unfair towards somebody just because they personally not agreeing with them, for whatever reason they might have, absolutly unconsidarable if right or wrong this reasons for a conflict are.
Abusing GM controlling power to destroy a players property, well-earned and played out correctly handled, and that without doing it with players permission, (and i know patric well enough that he would participe in such RP if it would've been done correctly) is simply no, i repeat no FAIR PLAY

@ patric:

dont worry, i aint afraid of being abused. if it happens, people will react as i did.

thats one of the reasons why i am so much applying to the staffs fairness.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 9:56 am**

Just my two cent's:

1.) This is a PRIVATE FREE GAME, not commercial and not RL.
You can win or lose in a game and at most you get no chance to complain or moan.

Quote from another thread written from Dravish: but people keep confusion Illarion with real life, i shall never understand this.

------

-- and always win I would like to insert.

When a player isn't be able to lose something then he should probably not play.
BUT .. this is an RP ! I'm glad my Char's are poor, but when a poor Char lost all --- nobody cares about. Since they aren't moaning about, playing along and enjoying the RP not the skills and PG. In medieval times whole towns burned out, so i would say it is a realistic feature...
And to be honest, Samantha is one of the richest and mightful Char's IG.

2.) The staff are humans, making faults like all others and when they say it will be discussed then this is enough for me as a player to accept.

So stop the whole discussion, move your behind IG and play.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 9:57 am**

@Dusty: It's in Samantha's role not to rp such things.

And I think this is stupid, frankly. Although, Patric, you didn't really put "all your money" into it at all, when it was given to you.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:13 am**

Tanaki wrote:So, you think that teleporting a player out of a private building while in the middle of rp,

It was an accident, I didn't lie about that.

I typed the wrong words, I wanted to teleport me to him, not the other way around.

Martin

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:26 am**

dont know if someone asked this before, but is it then also possible to extinguish the fire by water buckets?

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:42 am**

Christiana wrote:dont know if someone asked this before, but is it then also possible to extinguish the fire by water buckets?

Lianis wrote:Ever tried dumping a bucket of water on a campfire?

SssSSSssSSSsssssss!

Yes, it is possible.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:44 am**

the wildfire can't be extinguished. it burns so quickly and strong that you have no time getting a bucket of water to extinguish even a few flames before the whole building is burned out.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:47 am**

Dusty, want to buy perma-kill insurance?

--

*looks around the thread* Why hasn't anyone said this earlier?

Bye Galim!

-=========-

*sighs* This wasn't fair, I'll give you that...

This is the Gm's game, but it doesn't make us hamsters or punching dolls.

Why didn't you test it on eliza's instead? It'd make a nyce quest...

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:52 am**

Yes, GMs game, but it's supposed to be made to offer fun for the players.

And I fail to see this in burning her house, in fact, as you can see from here, rather the opposite.

This will be discussed as Arien said...I do hope that something 'will' be done, and not just forgotten like it never happened.

This has really destroyed my morale, and my fun to play the game. And not just me, but I know of others, who might stop playing the game aswell due to such things.

Anyhow, I'll await for the result of the staff discussion.

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 11:01 am**

Hello!

Well, this whole thing smells of "Let's teach him a lesson because we don't like him and have the power to do so".
This is so immature and wrong regardless of what you might think of someone.

With kind regards
PO Magdha Tiefenerz

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 11:02 am**

/signed

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 11:14 am**

abcfantasy wrote:Yes, GMs game, but it's supposed to be made to offer fun for the players.

"We are offering our own server, a Java client (which can be used at Linux or Windows) and the guarantee that you will never ever pay anything for this game. To ensure this we founded a registered society and its became contractual in the statute. Illarion is online since Februrary 2000 and it's always being developed by programers and volunteers to fit and satisfy the wishes of the player community"

Quote from first page

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 11:17 am**

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
abcfantasy wrote:Yes, GMs game, but it's supposed to be made to offer fun for the players.
"We are offering our own server, a Java client (which can be used at Linux or Windows) and the guarantee that you will never ever pay anything for this game. To ensure this we founded a registered society and its became contractual in the statute. Illarion is online since Februrary 2000 and it's always being developed by programers and volunteers to fit and satisfy the wishes of the player community"

Quote from first page

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 11:56 am**

I'm sure a burning inn is the wish of sooo many parts of the community

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 12:43 pm**

patric,

if i think about the building of the nordmark, and imagine myself in your situation, i would not be happy or content either.

but with the following you crossed a certain border:

But martin, i am sure you are very thankfull that you live far far away from me, right? i wonder if you would have such a big mouth while standing infront of me. but well, we all know that you have just a big mouth in the forums, hidden behind your account and a few hundred kilometres. it doesn't surprises me that someone like you uses such cheap tricks against others, instead of showing some bravery or even backbone.
...
But maybe one day in life we meet again , THEN you can show me if you are really a man with guts. Since i will for sure test it.

i think, you should retract this. even if you are pissed off.

korm

Illarion.org

I quit this game