Entirely Unfair.

Daashi · Post by **Daashi** » Sat May 20, 2006 12:01 pm

Hello

*waves hands about to gather attention*

Noboady complained that the flood was forced RP because it didn't envolve just 1-2 people who had a to face what I would call a Hobson's choice. It involved everyone online at the time and allowed for people to think about what has happened or what could have happened to their characters in such a situation. Yes things happened that were not dissused beofre hand but it gave room to improvise, there were many choices for the players to react to.

It was a group of people faced with a natural disaster and how they had re-acted to it. Not an uber-mega-super being that targeted only a couple of players, and without any previously established plot it made it seem as if it was a personal attack, not on the character but the player. Not even in hints and tips that something big was coming, or was going to happen.

And if it takes 5 of the most powerful warrior players to a slay this being than it is unfair, because lets face it - what are the chances that 5 of the most powerful warrior characters on at the same time an are in the same place. Then it would take 10-15 average characters - if they were lucky.

Ullyatth Leader · Post by **Ullyatth Leader** » Sat May 20, 2006 12:37 pm

Hmmmm... In war, if someone kidnaps someone close to you and threatens their life, a bad leader would put personal emotions in front. Now most are bad leaders in this sense, it's hard in this situation, but there have been people who sacrificed people close to them in history. These headstrong leaders with seemingly no emotions in war seem to have helped the people. Sometimes people have endangered other's lives by helping someone close to them in war. Sometimes people have sacrificed someone close to them for the good of the nation. Stephen could've done this, but he felt to strongly for Meriel. If the situation was: Kill (Someone Stephen didn't particularly like, but may have proved helpful later on) or Meriel will die and there was no way out, I assume he'd sacrifice the person he didn't like. Now I'm droning on a bit and I reckon people will argue, but he could've let her die if he really thought he was that good a governer.

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:36 pm

Hmm? In RL, this would have been possible, but in Illarion, a simple no. Thoses that dislike Stephen and want him out of town as example, dont have a single reason, and any that they could find they would use it. I would already see " Complainer : Why should we have a self proclamed governor than sacrifices peoples for his own good" shit. There was no way out for that character, even if he could technically resign, the character never would, and dont tell me the BS reasons is that its his fault because he made the character personality

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Sat May 20, 2006 3:05 pm

I do not know what happened here exactly.

But one thing: Official and GM-controled quests should not have the aim to destroy the player made structures. We have not lots of them. They are very rare. And players and their chars who "can" lead ingame communities for longer times than only 1-2 months are not much too.

Personally i am happy about everyone who tries to set up a political system, inspecial in matter of Trolls Bane.

It would be very contraproductive - in my eyes - to block it for longer time by official step_down-or-die-quests. It should be the matter of the "normal" players and normal chars who rules the ingame world...

In the younger past it worked well in general. I hope it will work in future too..

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sat May 20, 2006 3:19 pm

Too late. the drow destroyed the trollsbane leadership already. And today he will kill Stephen rothman

Arameh · Post by **Arameh** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:01 pm

Samantha meant in the duel.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:09 pm

haha thanks for the confidence

Ullyatth Leader · Post by **Ullyatth Leader** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:28 pm

Arameh_ wrote:Hmm? In RL, this would have been possible, but in Illarion, a simple no. Thoses that dislike Stephen and want him out of town as example, dont have a single reason, and any that they could find they would use it. I would already see " Complainer : Why should we have a self proclamed governor than sacrifices peoples for his own good" shit. There was no way out for that character, even if he could technically resign, the character never would, and dont tell me the BS reasons is that its his fault because he made the character personality

Erm... No, most have reasons. e.g.

Governor Stephen Rothman takes his longsword.
Governor Stephen Rothman: Goodbye William.
Gort Greegog pulls William back.
(That was Stephen nearly killing William)

Raven Destial: I've heard ill things of Stephen, this is true.

Athian Corulas of Varshikar: Stephen is now busy trying to make a position for himself of power and privlage for himself and he's current bed mate
Raven Destial: Who is his current bed mate these days?
Athian Corulas of Varshikar: Lahela i believe

Raven Destial: He's openly unfaithful and yet has the gall to disown his own daughter

(This shows how even his daughter hates him)
Alica Scarface: Why would I want to be named Rothman?
Alica Scarface: Stephen Rothman is a insolent bastard. I hate the man and I would slap him again if I ever get the chance to
! Arrogance himself: May I inquire as to what changed?
Alica Scarface: I won't tell you here, and I won't tell a person going without a name.

Someone (X): I don't trust people that don't die

(One of the countless bans Stephen has made)
Stephen Rothman: Mmh, but now you are on trolls bane land .. and so if any trouble is cause whoever the aggresor is shall be banned from this town, regardless of rank in their respective home lands.. that is understood by all ?

This is why people hate Stephen.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:47 pm

Woohoo! Go Stephen! Yeah!

*Secretly plots Trollsbane take over while Stephen is at the duel*

Ullyatth Leader · Post by **Ullyatth Leader** » Sat May 20, 2006 4:53 pm

Fooser wrote:Woohoo! Go Stephen! Yeah!

*Secretly plots Trollsbane take over while Stephen is at the duel*

With the help of Sir William the Injured, Princess Marie the amazing and Sir Kevin the Nay-sayer

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sat May 20, 2006 9:40 pm

Amazing

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Sat May 20, 2006 9:45 pm

Amazing..me

Urilen Quanasuard · Post by **Urilen Quanasuard** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:25 am

Seriously.

What. The. Hell.

That destroys my character concept, and does destroy most of the other evil mages too. I mean, Stephen could've won the battle, but the Drow could've gotten away. Now, I really feel like quitting.

Even though this was kindof forced, now a ton of RP concepts are gone.

Azuros · Post by **Azuros** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:29 am

don't leave again Uri! *hypnotizes Urilen*

Urilen Quanasuard · Post by **Urilen Quanasuard** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:33 am

Hehe.

Thanks, Azuros.

But I don't know what to do anymore...

Please, someone fix this.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun May 21, 2006 7:02 am

You could be more specific when being whiney. Zaron is the evil mage, not Vladimir the random governator-hator unless I got them confused.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Sun May 21, 2006 7:24 am

Gro'bul is right.

And we have already some evil mages. Do you think we will have endless evil mages getting the runes? Not everyone who says "i have an evil mage char and want runes" will get them

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:03 am

How about this? The whole "you're not the governor, push off" idea should be played iin game...as well as the "I am too the governor, douchebag!" side should be played in game. So that way something exciting would happen, there would be factions within Trollsbane, and the characters I play could finally do something fun besides talk nasty to strangers and slay mummies! How 'bout that shit?

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:03 am

Garett Gwenour wrote:
Cain Freemont wrote:No, no one was complaining about the flood in my post either. I just see some very flawed logic in the argument that its unfair that someone is made to choose between two disagreeable situations, while it seemed perfectly fair to force everyone into dealing with something else. Is it expected that the game is to be all happy bunnies and silly, fun quests with lots of open-ended happy endings? Something like this hasn't happened in a while and I don't see why there are complaints about it.
You cannot use a GM character and call out a regular character. Doing so dictates the outcome of ingame politics that people work on together through roleplay.
Even Markous sees this problem. I do not understand why you would try to argue that what happened IS NOT wrong.

You don't understand? Oh, well let me clarify.

It isn't wrong. Got my point? I hope so. Where were you when other GM supported characters were forcing their power on characters other than your own? You certainly weren't bitching about them then. Only when something happens to your characters have you the gall to post a new thread about how something is unfair.

@The last few posts:
I have to say this: Many players complain about there not being enough evil characters. And yet, here we are: A drow. Doesn't get a whole lot more evil than that, does it? And what happens? You find something to bitch about, then totally guilt trip whomever was playing the drow (I'm assuming it was Markous, considering he seems to have been doing a lot of the new GM interventional stuff lately) into losing the fight. That drow would have likely kicked Stephen's ass in just about any scenario in a display of skill. It seems very apparent that the decision on who would win the battle was already made. How flavourless.

The point: Quit bitching about there being a lack of evil when all you goody-goody freaks immediately pound all the people who are actually trying straight into the fucking ground. Also, quit saying shit like "Well, not every evil character is going to get a chance" or anything along those lines. They don't get a chance because the instant someone finds out about a new evil character, the player starts telling everyone else on MSN, and soon everyone knows out of game who the character is, what their number is, what their intentions are, when they are on, and what kind of character it is. Then everyone starts acting all tense as hell when they see whom they know out of character as an evil character and get "suddenly suspicious" because they can't fully separate the out of character with the in character knowledge. Another thing I have noticed: Whenever a new evil character starts showing up here and there (any kind of shadowy, dark figure, or a character with brooding eyes), the super-strong, goodly characters start showing up more often. Ridiculous.

Bloodyhearty: The reason factions are such an impossibilty now is because the "central government" always pounds down anything that stands up. I agree that something needs to happen to throw the city into some kind of division, though.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Sun May 21, 2006 10:27 am

What the heck is this "central government?" I'd opt to delete it, if it pounds down potential factions like that.

Markous · Post by **Markous** » Sun May 21, 2006 12:00 pm

I totally agree to your words, Cain. Well said.

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sun May 21, 2006 12:05 pm

*gives Cain a cookie* I love you.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sun May 21, 2006 5:26 pm

Shall I start bitching that an important quest in the developement of a char that is very important to one of my chars and who I RPed with more then with anyone else in the last time was done when I was off to the RL-meeting?
Especially as this character of mine may have played a significant role in the reason why this quest was asked for at all?

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Sun May 21, 2006 6:00 pm

first of all Cain, I'm just curious as to where your getting this msn info. Ive been hearing it alot lately, at everything that goes on it's always "MSN IS EVIL!"

secondly, say the drow didn't reduce his skills or however he lost. the over powered char beat somebody. woopdy doo. flavorless. that was the point of some of our threads that you locked.

Urilen Quanasuard · Post by **Urilen Quanasuard** » Sun May 21, 2006 8:20 pm

Cain Freemont wrote:
Garett Gwenour wrote:
Cain Freemont wrote:No, no one was complaining about the flood in my post either. I just see some very flawed logic in the argument that its unfair that someone is made to choose between two disagreeable situations, while it seemed perfectly fair to force everyone into dealing with something else. Is it expected that the game is to be all happy bunnies and silly, fun quests with lots of open-ended happy endings? Something like this hasn't happened in a while and I don't see why there are complaints about it.
You cannot use a GM character and call out a regular character. Doing so dictates the outcome of ingame politics that people work on together through roleplay.
Even Markous sees this problem. I do not understand why you would try to argue that what happened IS NOT wrong.
You don't understand? Oh, well let me clarify.

It isn't wrong. Got my point? I hope so. Where were you when other GM supported characters were forcing their power on characters other than your own? You certainly weren't bitching about them then. Only when something happens to your characters have you the gall to post a new thread about how something is unfair.

@The last few posts:
I have to say this: Many players complain about there not being enough evil characters. And yet, here we are: A drow. Doesn't get a whole lot more evil than that, does it? And what happens? You find something to bitch about, then totally guilt trip whomever was playing the drow (I'm assuming it was Markous, considering he seems to have been doing a lot of the new GM interventional stuff lately) into losing the fight. That drow would have likely kicked Stephen's ass in just about any scenario in a display of skill. It seems very apparent that the decision on who would win the battle was already made. How flavourless.

The point: Quit bitching about there being a lack of evil when all you goody-goody freaks immediately pound all the people who are actually trying straight into the fucking ground. Also, quit saying shit like "Well, not every evil character is going to get a chance" or anything along those lines. They don't get a chance because the instant someone finds out about a new evil character, the player starts telling everyone else on MSN, and soon everyone knows out of game who the character is, what their number is, what their intentions are, when they are on, and what kind of character it is. Then everyone starts acting all tense as hell when they see whom they know out of character as an evil character and get "suddenly suspicious" because they can't fully separate the out of character with the in character knowledge. Another thing I have noticed: Whenever a new evil character starts showing up here and there (any kind of shadowy, dark figure, or a character with brooding eyes), the super-strong, goodly characters start showing up more often. Ridiculous.

Bloodyhearty: The reason factions are such an impossibilty now is because the "central government" always pounds down anything that stands up. I agree that something needs to happen to throw the city into some kind of division, though.

Exactly what I meant to say in a longer, more logicial version.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Mon May 22, 2006 9:18 am

Bloodhearte wrote:What the heck is this "central government?" I'd opt to delete it, if it pounds down potential factions like that.

The "central government" I was referring to is a large quantity of the governments Troll's Bane has had. I say "central" because Troll's Bane remains a pivotal city in terms of economy, politics, and a great many social gatherings. The past few governing offices have really hindered the creation of factions since the factions would not have had any power without the government's 'go-ahead'.

@Others: I'm really glad that my point seems to parallel the thoughts of others for once.

@Poots: What threads did I lock? O.o Or was that post in reference to someone else? To the first part: The "MSN info" I get is from other Illarionites.

I try to keep up-to-date when I can, even if I don't play too often. That way, when I decide to become active, I know I'll be ready and aware of what to expect.

Poots · Post by **Poots** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:44 pm

I think it was markous who was locking the over powered gm chars threads. not you.

and let it be known here and now, I don't know anybody else here in rl, and I don't chat with them ever. I don't know if they do or not, so I can't argue about it.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:13 am

Hey! 10 pages of reading is alot..couldent get on the site for a while.

An' by the way. No gm char is OVER powered. If they were would the good guys ALWAYS win? Nope.

@POOTSIES get a msn dem rox. Good way to meet people and figure out where Stephen is every second and what hes saying.

Someone:
Ok Stephen just said..."Im govoner die!" please come help my dwarf? hes new....

Samantha Meryadeles · Tue May 23, 2006 10:24 am

An' by the way. No gm char is OVER powered. If they were would the good guys ALWAYS win? Nope.

they are. When the good guys win than because the gm or questchar LET them win. Stephen could have never beaten the drow. The drow player let Stephen win.

Gort Greegog · Post by **Gort Greegog** » Tue May 23, 2006 10:27 pm

My point was no point in complaining in a win win situation.