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Martin didn't develop the magic system, far as I know. It was originally the sole burden of Nitram and then Manuel joined in to help, without which perhaps you wouldn't have a magic system to complain about yet.

It's not perfect, no. On one level the realization hit me that I would not be able to play a mage, due to lack of time to go through the lessons. On the other hand, I know a lot more people were guilty of abusing the old magic system than will stand up here and admit it.

It occurs to me that no matter what series of factors led up to one finding a teacher and the sort of money it took to get the items needed back then, each of us went from runestone to runestone like a hamburger binge in a world full of drive-thru windows--often trained by someone who stretched their character concept that extra inch just to learn magic.

I agree on some level that it seems a little silly for the thousand year old elf or the wizened old man to go through lessons on magic, and I'd personally like to see an option to become a mage, albeit a weak one, at character generation, while the school of magic would be used to teach those who didn't start as wizards... but I didn't put the time into the magic system that these fellows did. Maybe they know something better than I.

Tell a long story short:

They made it, they decide how it's introduced.
We are to be quiet and live with it.

Thanks for that being settled and pointed out,
I withdraw my complaint upon receiving this answer.

I think you misread what I said, Faladron.

Faladron is rewriting what Martin said in another way,its not an answer for aegohl.

Just to make some things clear, wide parts of the MS are my work.

But that's not the point.

You are allowed to complain and critizise, however, if you do so, please formulate valid points. None was given so far. But you can try again:
Why exactly is this system bad?

Martin

martin wrote:You are allowed to complain and critizise, however, if you do so, please formulate valid points. None was given so far. But you can try again:
Why exactly is this system bad?

Martin

Me myself and I wrote: But on the other hand, I want to deliver a complaint, to the whole comunity perhaps. It's about the way magic is being reintroduced.

Myself wrote:It's a great efford of those Lor-Angur Archmages to come to Gobaith themselves and start to teach, but their attitude towards others who do not follow their path and the lacking posibilities for people to find it out on their own rather than having to study under them are highly questionable.

The complaint wrote: I hereby officially complain about the way magic is introduced and the lack of possibilities to go your own way if you do not want to be a scholar of said academy.

I do not see where I critisized your magic system, Martin or any of your work and I can not answer your question mentioned above for it never was the reason for this thread anyway.

Edit Faladron was faster...disregard where i repeat

1. Some people feel the current system is hard to role play with in as many of us have been rping adept mages for some 6 months in an attempt to keep magic alive in game.
It is hard to step back to being a complete novice and have masters talk down to you, as if you are a novice and remain in character
How ever my character knows he wants the runes if he has to eat humble pie so it.

2. There is a feeling that it was a kick in the teeth to the VMA who have been rping as a magic academy for all this time and have in essence been thrust aside now.

3. People feel that only having one way to get magic restricts there rp, that they have to study at this school with these maters with out options.

I suppose the main complaint is the same one i have had to deal with being a 3k+ year old elf and having to sit through a lecture on sheep.

Summarised for you Martin, peoples opinions
How ever Nitrams argument is a good one if people are going to play mages the most intelligent and knowledgeable class i think giving players the information can only strengthen the game.
Those are the points and my end opinion is give it a try it might be fun it can only make the game world richer

I think what people want most with the magic system is options, and are feeling restricted with the idea that their characters can only learn magic through this one option. I personally am not complaining, because the academy fits in well with my character, but I can see how it is different for others. Not every character is the study hard and be a good student type and I think that this system is sort of forcing them to be if they want to become mages.

Narmir wrote:I think what people want most with the magic system is options, and are feeling restricted with the idea that their characters can only learn magic through this one option. I personally am not complaining, because the academy fits in well with my character, but I can see how it is different for others. Not every character is the study hard and be a good student type and I think that this system is sort of forcing them to be if they want to become mages.

This will take time ofcourse. The second someone knows more than enough, and has the teaching runes (we are talking about a teaching rune idea no?), they will probably start such a venture for their own. It will just take some time.

Agreed. Patience people

If you're going to do lessons to everyone; please at least make them convienient. I won't be able to make any of the lessons. Surely you can do 2 a day or something???

Also I find it really annoying that once the VMA stood alone, just a select amount of pupils. No-one wanted a piece of the action then unless their character began by saying "I want to be a magician". Now that magic is back, everyone joins the magic academy. My character William was exciting because he wanted to be a mage and the magic was coming back soon. I thought he would finally be able to have something other people didn't. I waited a long time for it and then finally when I could get one over on Liles etc. (which i never can), everyone joins the magic academy. I may as well have made him a craftsman or fighter for all the good waiting so long for my mage did.

But not everyone will finihs the magic academy with magic. just because they joined dont means the will have everyone success

Galim wrote:But not everyone will finihs the magic academy with magic. just because they joined dont means the will have everyone success

You can say this differently...I HOPE not everyone will succeed *gg* (Jon and Kevin anyone?)

Hey, my character was told that she can never be a mage because they refuse to teach her for no actual reason, which I find quite stupid.

maybe your attributes for magic weren't high enough

So what? I should be allowed to try. Is priest magic even implemented yet, or druid magic? Can we at least do those instead if the mages won't teach us?

Maliss wrote:1. Some people feel the current system is hard to role play with in as many of us have been rping adept mages for some 6 months in an attempt to keep magic alive in game.

This is your fault.
There was no magic. Now there is magic. If you refuse what is actually happening in the game, the developers cannot be held responsible for it.

It is hard to step back to being a complete novice and have masters talk down to you, as if you are a novice and remain in character

It's like "playing" superman and requesting the ability to fly and laser eyes.

2. There is a feeling that it was a kick in the teeth to the VMA who have been rping as a magic academy for all this time and have in essence been thrust aside now.

What if whe threw a coin? What if it was just pure random that decided?

3. People feel that only having one way to get magic restricts there rp,

Well, those who think that should consider to learn how to RP or search for another kind of game.
First of all, it was said numerous times that everyone is capable of teaching the runes, not only the magic academy.
Secondly, it offers much more options than it takes. Be creative. Obviously most of you aren't.

I suppose the main complaint is the same one i have had to deal with being a 3k+ year old elf and having to sit through a lecture on sheep.

What the smile?
Imagine there was another way to get runes, well, wouldn't the problem still exist? What did they expect? That they get everything sticked up their asses? Sorry, but that's pure stupidity. What did they expect?

Martin

Sooner or later, hopefully sooner , characters will learn enough to be able to teach. At this time the monopoly will be broken.
Other people may choose to teach people that the Gobaith academy will not. Not everyone is cut out to be a mage. If you want to play a mage create a mage character, dont expect a fighter to be able to learn magic. The new system is, I think, trying to get away from having everyone able to learn magic. And even those who can learn may not be able to learn the most powerful magics. This gives you a reason to play actual mage characters rather than creating a fighter then going off and picking up magic.
Those of us who have been RPing still having access to a little magic can still go on doing so. Simply you are now also learning a different type of magic as well.
Initial disappointment aside, I say give the new system a chance. In a few months time it will be a lot different to the way it is now anyway.

Maliss wrote:1. Some people feel the current system is hard to role play with in as many of us have been rping adept mages for some 6 months in an attempt to keep magic alive in game.

martin wrote:This is your fault.
There was no magic. Now there is magic. If you refuse what is actually happening in the game, the developers cannot be held responsible for it.Martin

That's right stupid people were told to RP that magic existed even though none was presently available technicaly. How stupid of them to try to keep the myth alive so there might be a smooth transition. Only RP what is technically available people! When suddenly something becomes available just say "OOH! the gods did it."

It is hard to step back to being a complete novice and have masters talk down to you, as if you are a novice and remain in character

martin wrote:It's like "playing" superman and requesting the ability to fly and laser eyes.Martin

No it's like playing a severely cut back superman until the feature is realised and then suddenly having to ask "do my pants go outside my tights?"

2. There is a feeling that it was a kick in the teeth to the VMA who have been rping as a magic academy for all this time and have in essence been thrust aside now.

martin wrote:What if whe threw a coin? What if it was just pure random that decided?Martin

What if it wasn't? What if you rewarded that which you profess to want from the people in this game?

3. People feel that only having one way to get magic restricts there rp,

martin wrote:Well, those who think that should consider to learn how to RP or search for another kind of game.
First of all, it was said numerous times that everyone is capable of teaching the runes, not only the magic academy.
Secondly, it offers much more options than it takes. Be creative. Obviously most of you aren't.Martin

Stock answer. if you don't like it smile off. Most of you aren't creative enough to fit in anyway.

I suppose the main complaint is the same one i have had to deal with being a 3k+ year old elf and having to sit through a lecture on sheep.

martin wrote:What the smile?
Imagine there was another way to get runes, well, wouldn't the problem still exist? What did they expect? That they get everything sticked up their asses? Sorry, but that's pure stupidity. What did they expect?Martin

The problem seems to be that the teaching of the runes seems to be held by those who have one view. All that's being asked is that the same opportunities for people of a different view could have been considered. I understand that the runes are able to be taught by anyone but that will take time to filter through. I await your putdown.

Countercomplaints here... In the end when there are people who grew up (magic wise) in the academy and go off to teach other worthy people this will help RP... old teachers will remember going to school with other old teachers and the oldest teacher ( yes I mean you Master Tyrus ) will remember teaching them... this will lead to interesting events and some people calling other peoples faults as they remember from the academy... I say quit your nagging, cowboy up, and bend your damn necks until you know enough of the new system to leave and do your own thing.

Nice work Illa Team This is really a magnificent thing you have done for us and I apprecieate it.

PO Hanan

(strangest thing happened when I read the title of this post... I got a picture in my head of the monopoly logo guy with a wizard hat instead of a top hat... )

Well.

We have two groupes in the Illarion Community. Those who like the magic and the way it is implemented. And those who like not.

Luckily the first group is bigger and this stopped my, disableling the magic again.

Well. I developed the magic, and devise a way to give it back to the players who can akt like mages, and who have the attributes for this.
I know some, wouldn't like this. Some who just want that i give them all runes and maximum skills.

Many like this way, so we stay on this way. Those who don't like it, may RP their magic.

And now you can write what you want, i will not read it.

Bye bye

In other words, he's telling us to shut the smile up.

Let's get it straight.

I've talked now to several people involved in that and I found out that:

1) The people who give out runes can be trusted.
2) They give out runes to anyone, no matter if they like them or not. They are neutral.

Furthermore there is no way to "reward" those who played mages for ages. How should that work? "Pick 20 free runes"? If that was so, I'd start playing an incredible fightermage with all stats on 20 and all skills maxed for 4 weeks and then ask GMs to set his skills and stats according to that. Boys and girls, that won't work, because it's simply unfair and it makes a lot of work.

If anyone has a remark NOT concerning these three points, feel free to add them.

Martin

The GMs surely worked hard for that magic system,it may have some flaws but that still not a reason to insult them.

Someone would have complained no matter how the reintroduction was handled. If existing mages were used (such as the VMA) instead of the new academy how many people would have screamed about it being unfair or favouritism?
Basically a no win situation for the Devs.
Just hope they take the comments and feelings on board and handle the introduction of Druid/priest/bard differently.

All we have seen so far is the reintroduction, not the actual magic system. So lets all just get on with it.

The point is:

We made a magic system. Technicaly good. But it was hard work.
We introduce it and many start to complain.

What do i see now.

No Magic System --> just one or two complainments in a long time
Magic System --> many, many complainments in a really short time

I planned to make a druid system.

No Druid Systems --> just one or two complainments in a long time
Druid System --> ???

You can follow me? See my point?

any time something new is implimented, people want to voice there opinions/compliants/suggestions on it, which is fine, the only time it starts to go bad is when individuals start to take offense due to the opinions/compliants/suggestions of others. i think most of the opinions on the situation have been voiced right now, and it' become less a topic of discussion on the magic system and just a place for people to state there opinions. thats not Necessarily a bad thing, until it becomes nine some odd pages of useless banter as it is now.

magic system has been implemented,it is how it is and we'll have to deal with it or not have it at all, if you have a serious issue i'm sure a pm to Nitram would suffice.

this thread has well outlived it's usefulness.

It has indeed. One little thing may be to add : As it is teached now, the magic system will require roleplaying to get runes. Thus, supporting roleplaying ingame. We have lots of possibilites for roleplay with this new system - people, let's start to use them !

i would be happy about any suggestions what to make better in what way. Really. But i get non. This is the problem. If you tell me, what i can make, better and how it would be better, for all of cause, not only for a single player or a small group, i'm the last who says STFU.

I will close off with saying I hope the developers read this over and see the many people includeing myself who said.
Point 1,2,3 are problematic but we can deal with it.

With nearly every post some one has listed a positive side and a reason they like this system and I would hate to see that forgotten. Despite the "issues" it presents some of us. We all see the value in enriching the game and unifying the theory of magic.
It was never for me or most of us that this magic system was terrible the topic became about "whats the problem" they were listed. If there was a topic "whats right" there would be as much to say..

What we all need to step back and realize is that prior to this mage school magic had no real theory.
If athian or damien were feeling creative they may make up role-play theories about magic, how ever at core there was no unifying theories about magic.
What this school will do is create a "in-game" story for magic and send players back into the game actually equipped to teach the subject in a manner that builds role-play and the game setting as far as stories and theories.