What is wrong with illarion/Was läuft falsch in Illarion

Galdriel · Post by **Galdriel** » Mon May 23, 2005 9:24 am

Hehe yes Martin can be irritating at times.

But i would prefer that to, for example, nearly never reaction of CIP (Tibia) to Players.

The problem is currently see are:

- if you dont speak english well you do have a problem
- getting away from the start is somewhat difficult
(can be solved by finding people / guilds to help you)
- finding out how to produce things can be frustrating
(can be solved by finding people / guilds to help you)

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Mon May 23, 2005 9:31 am

Most of what is wrong with Illarion is not the fault of GMs. It is to do with the players. Early on, when everyone was increasing their skills, I wasn't playing. After while, I purchased World of Warcraft, to make up for the lack of online gaming in my life. Now I have not played Illarion properly for many weeks, and I have no prospect of even being able to play in the next month, nor will I be able to play World of Warcraft. Darn exams.

After I am out of the game for at least another month, I probably won't play, because then I'll have 2 months off school. I will probably use it to enjoy myself. Trying to get myself accustomed to the game again would not be fun.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon May 23, 2005 9:36 am

Martin, the things I posted aren't actually affecting myself as much. The reasons why I'm not playing more are mostly on my own side. I just guessed this would go on in some players heads.

Another thing, and this was said at the RL- meeting by some players is that seemingly Illarion is focussed completely on entertaining our American community. Important things take place rather at times where it is comfortable for American players to attend. Lots of new English GMs have been recruited but seemingly there is no "real" German player- GM any more (not including staff members working behind the scene). All the funny things happen late at night, which means people who need their sleep will miss all the important or less important GM- quests.

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Mon May 23, 2005 11:04 am

My life

Wake up- Illarion
12 hours later - Illarion
18 hours later -Sleep

Repeat

I have nothing right now to do with my time. My life is sort of on hold as I wait to join the military.

I broke up with my GF because of joining, so that leaves me with plenty of free time. Cause I dont need to work

And to Adano, Quests happen at all sorts of times and places. Just have to be on alot to realize them

Game is great, Love it, Cant wait for everything to get fixed, but by then I will be in Bootcamp

and have to come back after awhile

Moathia · Post by **Moathia** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:23 pm

Adano Eles wrote: Lots of new English GMs have been recruited

What all two of them? Where there was how many before? What none you say! Hmmm I see a pattern, no English gm's means recruit some.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon May 23, 2005 1:43 pm

English or American GM's? That is a difference

Aegohl · Post by **Aegohl** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:15 pm

Moathia wrote:
Adano Eles wrote: Lots of new English GMs have been recruited
What all two of them? Where there was how many before? What none you say! Hmmm I see a pattern, no English gm's means recruit some.

Yes. I'm sure that is your solution. We have more GMs right now than there are commonly players on the server. Out of five GM's, we have two Germans, two who are native to the English language, and one who is missing-in-action.

Half of all present is more than fair.

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:19 pm

All of the GMs are here to help us. It shouldn't matter if they are german or american.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:20 pm

um, it should a little bit

. Not every german player may understand english, and the most non-german(austrian, or whatever

), don't understand german. A english GM may not help a german player who can't speak english.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Mon May 23, 2005 2:31 pm

Hence the mixture of nations in the GM list dear. All the GM's which you see operate and cover most of the time zones, and the non english/german speaking members of the team have access to others for support when the need for translation occurs.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Mon May 23, 2005 4:27 pm

Just a sidenote: There is no english GM in the team

Concerning quest times: It is hard to please all of you. But we try, nevertheless, the chance to see quests by me at 8:00 am CET on wednesday is... low.

By the way, as soon as I have the time, I will start a bigger plotline. Keep an open eye for rumors

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:09 pm

Something I have noticed is that a lot of people check the "Players online" page on the website to look for people they want to roleplay with. If they don't see these people online, they don't go online. Its a vicious circle.

I say, take away the "players online" page! Then you might get people wandering around in game looking for other people or even aranging a place to meet before they log out. Try it for a few weeks and see how it affects the number of players online

Quinasa · Post by **Quinasa** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:39 pm

Wait wait. Hold on there buddy. Do you stand behind all of us as we're surfing the site to determine when it is that we go online? Don't go all "I know what you all do" on us. I go in game when I feel like going in game. And get rid of the Online Player Viewer for that reason?! Thats a big part of the reason it's there! You don't have to use it, but use it or no it is a useful tool to the rest of us.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:51 pm

Its also the reason why

a lot of people

don't come in game at all.

It's ok buddy, i'm not going all "I know what you all do" on you, but people have said before on the forums (and even on this topic) that that is what they do/have done

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Mon May 23, 2005 5:57 pm

Vindigan wrote:Something I have noticed is that a lot of people check the "Players online" page on the website to look for people they want to roleplay with. If they don't see these people online, they don't go online. Its a vicious circle.

I say, take away the "players online" page! Then you might get people wandering around in game looking for other people or even aranging a place to meet before they log out. Try it for a few weeks and see how it affects the number of players online

I've suggested the same thing for the forums in the past...

I mean, look at the forums. I waste way too much time in them, having to explain to people what they're doing or thinking wrong. I could have spent that time in-game. Personally, I would like to see that online player viewer just go some day. I mean, it's not like it's any use for RP. I remember that time KK came online before the wipe, the online player number doubled within minutes; Athian came hunting KK. What exactly that all has to do with RP, I don't know, but covert figures shouldn't be having a neon sign slapped onto their heads as soon as they enter game. That's just plain dumb anyway.

I know alot of you illarion folks love some old things like the Player Viewer, but especially when the days come when there would be more players online, you might accept it that it's a useless and of all things stupid thing for an RPG. It's great for a 3D-shooter or for virtually any other type of game, but we're speaking of RPG.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:02 pm

1.) Everybody is practically a newbie. The only guys I've seen around with extensive knowledge on crafts and such are the GMs (justifiably).

2.) No steady source of income. You have to pay to get stuff you need to make money. Thus, no money is made.

3.) Skill building is so uncertain and risky. You don't know whether you improved, whether you dropped, when to start work again after you can't concentrate (there should be a "you can concentrate again" message).

4.) I play a fighting character, but getting good seems like more work than it's worth. Some NPCs are easy, but you're guaranteed to turn into a cloud if you come across one that is better than you. I've tried a few times asking other characters if they'd like to come hunt with me (against my character's role as a vagrant), but they argue the places are too far away from town to bother going.

5.) No real reason to explore the massive map. I like traveling if I have a destination, but nobody lives outside of town.

6.) Although this is probably the fault of players, I don't like playing with many characters. They all just seem the same to me, and everytime they type a line of dialogue, I feel a sense of persona playing going on from them.

Those are my reasons.

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:12 pm

wow. Bloodhearte said it exactly.. I could not have said it better myself.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:19 pm

Some thoughts of mine on your post, Blood:

1.) Doesn't really bug me
2.) Doesn't bug me, I think it's more "medieval" now
3.) I've given up caring about any skills in this game, because I've given up caring about the PG "rules" and if I happen to "break" them and get into trouble for it, I will make a fuss because "PG" is not mathematically limited within the game, nor is there any mathematical formula off the game that defines PG

4.) I agree on this, but I reckon having suggested once that fight skills are downgraded somewhat in their relevance and things go more over the attributes and item configuration... but pretty much everybody shot that down under the preface of wanting to have felt achievement by skilling up. A complete paradox when put into relation with my response to #3.
5.) Depends on the characters you play, really.
6.) I don't have a problem with that; I'd rather be surrounded by 50 persona players online so I can RP in a larger gaming environment than the standard slew of the same 5 day in day out.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:25 pm

@bloodhearte :

1.) will change. Right now, every Script is being made completely NEW because of the new scripting languague.

2.) yes, still has to be balanced. Will come.

3.) There is no "you can concentrate again" message for a certain reason : Players would read this, then, in the middle of roleplay : "oh excuse me i can learn again must work"...
And powergamers would know when to PG and when to put their chars idle...

so this is why it's the way it is. The time you can work again is a bit randomized too - so no cheating possible.

4.) Indeed, but can be solved by only approaching monsters that you're capable of fighting. Many monster places are reachable by stairs so you can escape... run from the rest or call for assistance.

5.) Players not(yet). NPCs do... plus : players may build buildings outside of town or even cause the town to grow. Because of lacking space, this was impossible on the old map. Oh, and may i throw in the many planned fix-quest-and-secret-places...

The most things you threw in, are in work. Our team doesn't have too much manpower. We must make everything in line, one thing after another.

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:33 pm

Was läuft falsch? - Ich weis es nicht.

Ich glaub wir befinden uns in so einer Phase wo die Spieler anfangen das neue Illarion mit dem alten zu vergleichen und hier und da nostalgisch werden - so jedenfalls mein Empfinden.

Was ich nachvollziehen kann, ist, dass die unausbalancierte Situation mit dem immermaligen Hinundher, Skill- und Itemlöschung, Prozeduränderungen etc. gerade in der Phase, wo jeder versucht die neue Welt zu verstehen, verwirren tut und Frust auslösen kann.

Meinem Verständnis nach befindet sich Illarion derzeit technisch wieder an einem fasst vollständigen Neubeginn. Wir befinden uns in einer Testphase in der erstmal geschaut wird, was denn nun mit der neuen Scriptsprache möglich ist.. und wie man das ganze System ausbalancieren kann... (Einige ingame relevanten Fehlerchen sind auch aus meiner Hand

)

Sowas braucht Zeit und demnach auch Geduld und Mithilfe von der Spielerschaft, um diese Zeit möglichst schnell und effektiv über die Runden zu kriegen.

Meinen Spielspaß hab ich persönlich jedenfalls nicht verloren. Ich bin immernoch viel und ausgiebig im Spiel und habe dort auch weiterhin schönes und amüsantes RP.
Technisch könnt ihr auch weiter auf mich zählen, soweit es meine Kenntnisse und meine Zeit erlauben.

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:34 pm

Overall, I'm satisfied with the answers, except this one:

Damien wrote:4.) Indeed, but can be solved by only approaching monsters that you're capable of fighting. Many monster places are reachable by stairs so you can escape... run from the rest or call for assistance.

But how would I know whether I'm capable of fighting that particular NPC or not? I wouldn't know if he was too hard until my character dies.

The bandits for example. Some of them can't hit harder than a nine month old child.

The dagger holding ones are kind of a challenge.

The ones with the swords will butcher me.

So I could take a less risky route and go to the pigs...but they're potential gain is very limited and they don't fight back. So I gotta do it the dangerous way if I want a dangerous character. Characters often won't train other characters (for some reason).

Not trying to get questions answered that should be answered IG, mind you.

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Mon May 23, 2005 6:57 pm

I was online for about 10 minutes today, the first time in about a month.

This is what i find.
All of my armors, even the chain, have been turned into ingots. I can no longer smith for some reason.. i have the hammer in hand and the ingots in my belt, and it says "Flint: You only need to use the hammer!". I am using the stupid hammer!!!

Then theres another thing. I could not carpenter. I chop down the tree, get the logs of wood, cut them into boards, then i have to decide which boards to make them into. Neither of them work.

Then theres the old/new things. Everything in my depot says "very rusty" "very old" "Bad, old ..." even though they have never been used. I bought an axe and 5 minutes afterwards it said "Bad rusty axe".

This is why i dont play.

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:03 pm

Yes please.
Obviously this game is bad. Go somewhere else. You are really a master of that game, having seen everything. In 10 minutes. Thanks for your judgement.

Martin, for the brainless, stupid developerteam

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:06 pm

My point is, even if we do manage to make something, often the GM"s will take it away if its too good.

This has happend 3 times to me now. All of my armors and everyrthing are gone.

Its too buggy... and nothing seems to really work right. I realize the GM's dont have all the time in the world to work on this, but why did you release it so soon if its this buggy?

Even if i wanted to play this game a lot, im still busy as it is... But i just dont see the point in playing if the items i get will be taken away, i dont really know anyone, the rp is terrible (in my opinion that is...), and its buggy.

Shandariel el Lysanthrai · Mon May 23, 2005 7:10 pm

Nilo, we still are in a phase of testing and debugging, so, of course something like that may happen. it is your fault wshen you start seriously with training and skill hunting soon after the wipe happened.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:10 pm

Ok Martin, frankly your whole attitude is starting to piss me off. The players are stupid, they don't know a thing. That's what I keep hearing from you.

Martin, a game is not fun if:-

1. Your items keep magically turning into ingots, if you even get any ingots at all.
2. You can't work out how to make a damn thing in the new crafting system.
3. Anything you do make is transformed into ingots again. It's probably very difficult to explain this IG.

Smith: Where's that armour I made you?
Fighter: It er...it turned back into ingots. You know, magically.

And Nilo, it was released so soon because the lease on the old server was over.

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:12 pm

YOU ARE A TESTER.
YOU PLAY THE ALPHA VERSION OF A GAME.
GO FIGURE.

Again, I emphasize:
This is NOT a finished game. This is the alpha version of a game. You test it. If you want to play a finished, stable game (where you have no influence at all), go somewhere else. There are wonderful games out ther.

Martin

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:13 pm

Dónal Mason wrote:
And Nilo, it was released so soon because the lease on the old server was over.

They could have still kept the old client up.

At any rate, i agree, it seems like your attitude martin is somewhat... irritated, annoyed... angery?

Well its not my fault that i cannot seem to do anything right. I used my logic to try to figure it out and it just made me so angery that the game has gone from bad to worst, that i quit.

The stools, just south of the east gate, are labled "Old rusty candles."

Nilo · Post by **Nilo** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:14 pm

And i know its not finished, but that doesnt mean that you all should get angery at me because i dont know how to do anything.

But i thought it was very good before, and my point is why do you have to try and change everything. Good is great... why try to make it better?

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Mon May 23, 2005 7:21 pm

Because it was not good enough. Items were worth nothing. Crafts were unbalanced and some of them were completely useless. There was no need to buy anything beyond the first item.