Fighting System - Kampf System

mjrrjs · Post by **mjrrjs** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:26 pm

To be honest the Two handed sword is slow enough as it is. And pretty weak too.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:58 pm

i never really did understand how a fully armored knight could dodge...well anything.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:53 am

As far as I know the type of armor one wears affects the chance to dodge. An unarmored char has the best chance to dodge afaik.

Still, plate mails are more favourable than leather armor, no matter what skills, attributes, weapons,... I think it is very, very hard to alter this state.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:34 pm

first day my character was on i watched to people fight it out with axes and heavy armor. they both dodged quite a bit. (one more then ten times during the battle) ad we all know you don't go to an axe fight in leather or chain.

dodge should be only capable in leathers chains (chain shirts, light elven steel) and things like that. all thicker armor should have almost no chance of dodging at all, no matter what a persons skill in dodge is.

mjrrjs · Post by **mjrrjs** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:48 pm

So your saying for example:

Disable dodge for every armour except: leather , and armours that are meant to be light?

I like the sound of that.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:50 pm

Mmm, personally i think that dodge % should be affected by armour, not completly negated

Post by **Nitram** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:54 pm

Every armor has a stiffness value. As higher this value as harder is dodgeing.

Nitram

Shrouded Figures · Post by **Shrouded Figures** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:18 pm

yet i've seen people in full plate armors dodging at fairly high rates, dodge skill seems to negate the effect of armor stiffness after it passes a point. but no matter how good you get at dodging you can't teach stiff materials to bend. so even if your dodge is higher then a persons weapons skill, in those type of armor you should only parry.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:28 pm

the effect of armor on dodge is not high enough. it has just few effect. the difference of dodging in lor-angur and light leather is not very big.

mjrrjs · Post by **mjrrjs** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:32 pm

hey... The difference of my char dodging with nothing on and heavy plate armour is not very big

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:32 pm

no, you dont dodge that much if your in heavy armor, from my experience. It is fair enough now.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:33 pm

Lor angur is a magical armour, it's light and flexible and thus more easier to dodge in.

I don't know about other armours since I havn't been using anything exept leather lately.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:36 pm

no, you dont dodge that much if your in heavy armor, from my experience. It is fair enough now.

You shouldn't dodge ANYTHING when wearing heavy armor

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:37 pm

magics over powered ;]

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:39 pm

Samantha Meryadeles wrote:
no, you dont dodge that much if your in heavy armor, from my experience. It is fair enough now.
You shouldn't dodge ANYTHING when wearing heavy armor

Depends on the armour, lor angur should have some dodge I say.
And verry heavy armour just the slightest of chance, so battles can be affected by such things with the right amount of luck.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:40 pm

no, you should be able to dodge in heavy armor, simply parry is not that powerful right now and everyone does relatively the same amount of damage. If you make heavy armor not capable of dodging in any way then you are going to have everyone in cheaper leatherarmor = no work for blacksmiths (whenever more masters come around). As it is right now it is very fair and even.

And yes Mages are ridiculously overpowered, but that will be solved later

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:53 pm

no definatly shouldn't be able to dodge in heavy armor. so what if everyone which's to leather armor. who cares thats a player choice. parry can be equally effective as dodge in any case if everyone thinks they like dodge better then parry then they'd which armor regardless. the effect of rmor stiffness is in fact to light. and i disagree that Lor Angur armor should have the special capabilty of letting people dodge. none of the players have actually proven the armor has magcial properties, it's as much a rumor as the abilities of rings. everyone assumes it's magcial because of the name it has. thats about it.

dodging in heavy armor should not be possible. maybe people will learn to use shields and better there parry more then just axe weilding through everything. besides warriors with high Constitution and all those other fighting stats wouldn't even be bothered. remember fighters in this game were dueling it out long before dodge was introduced, so all the knights and barbarians shouldn't be effected anyway.

Samantha Meryadeles · Post by **Samantha Meryadeles** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:56 pm

Heavy armor should also influence the combat speed and other things. in heavy armor you will move less dexterity and quick than in light. you will swing your sword with less speed and precise than without armor or wearing light one.

for that the heavy armor has a much higher protection than leather. the protection of leather armor right now is a joke, compared to the heavy armor whichs dodge is just slightly lower than the one in leather.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:18 pm

I just disagree, personally. As a player of two fighters, one who wears heavy armor and the other who wears relatively light armor, my opinion is that, yes, Heavy armor should be more difficult to dodge in then light armor, but not impossible. That simply drains the fun out of the game, and if we want realism for this fighting system, anyone wearing full armor will also be virtually invincible in combat. As no axe/sword was capable of breaking through steel armor when in melee combat, thus why Knights loved fighting so much, they could pwn the unarmored peasants and never be hurt themselves.

But that would not be fun, I don't think.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:24 pm

yeah but heavy armor is pierced really easy by long bows and such

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:31 pm

I have to agree with Sam on one point, it shouldn't be completely impossible, just verry hard and rare. Keeps some more influence by 'luck' in the game.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:43 pm

Garett Gwenour wrote:I just disagree, personally. As a player of two fighters, one who wears heavy armor and the other who wears relatively light armor, my opinion is that, yes, Heavy armor should be more difficult to dodge in then light armor, but not impossible. That simply drains the fun out of the game, and if we want realism for this fighting system, anyone wearing full armor will also be virtually invincible in combat. As no axe/sword was capable of breaking through steel armor when in melee combat, thus why Knights loved fighting so much, they could pwn the unarmored peasants and never be hurt themselves.

But that would not be fun, I don't think.

no axe or sword is capabale of breaking through steel armor in melee combat? what are you crazy? maybe an axe wouldn't cut through a six inched of solid steel. but armor isn't even made more then an inch thick (an inch of metal would be rediculous). i suggest you pay more attention in physic's class from now. on. to items of equal density are certainly capable of breaking one another. what do you think axes are made of, paper?

one: steel didn't exist in ancient times. steel is rather new by comparison

two: if your going to make a weapon to break through a type of armor, you make the weapon of the same material or a harder substance(obvisously)

three: swinging a weapon have five pound at twenty miles per hour. it hits with the force of an object many times heavier then it's actual mass.

four: armor have plenty of exploitable weak points around the joints and head regions.

i don't know gave you the idea that knights would be invincible is super heavy armor, if we have perfect realism, becuass trhat'd be the furtherest thing from the truth. as i said taking out dodge from plate armors isn't going to effect anyone gamplay. the luck variable might make sense. if the dodge occured once every so often but it occurs far far to often regardless of armor type. light armor just gets screwed because there's simply nothing to special about it.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:51 pm

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:yeah but heavy armor is pierced really easy by long bows and such

Not really. Theres basically four ways to defeat plate armor: crossbow and bolts, because it has far more poundage than any bow a human could pull and fire rapidly. Second, axes, because of the focused energy though they defect often against someone who's experienced in their armor. Maces and war hammers, use several points of percussion for grip (war hammer heads are most certainly not flat) to puncture or cause internal damage. With the exception of the largest 2 handed swords, swords are virtually useless against plate armor.

They tested iron arrowheads against the armor of the time it it didn't puncture, this was nearly point blank on a rig specifically for testing this sort of thing. Arrowheads were too numerous to think about making out of higher quality iron or steels.

Kevin Lightdot · Post by **Kevin Lightdot** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:10 pm

Gro'bul wrote:
They tested iron arrowheads against the armor of the time it it didn't puncture, this was nearly point blank on a rig specifically for testing this sort of thing. Arrowheads were too numerous to think about making out of higher quality iron or steels.

I think I saw that on mythbusters once...

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:16 pm

I saw it on Battlefield Detectives, a show on the history channel where they tested myths and stuff about the battle of Agincourt, which is widely (and falsely) attributed to the english longbow. Archers were cheaper which is why they had so many. They did all kinds of soil research, landscape research, ect.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:20 pm

Thanks for saving me the arguement against Athian, Grobul

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:31 pm

what you talking about? i mentioned nothing about arrows

Grobul points basically work in the same favor as mine. weapons like the ones he's mentioned did damage to armored knights. so how's that make them invincible?

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:33 pm

Gro'bul wrote: With the exception of the largest 2 handed swords, swords are virtually useless against plate armor.

And

Gro'bul wrote: Second, axes, because of the focused energy though they defect often against someone who's experienced in their armor.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:43 pm

what Grobul is speaking off it the chest piece alone. if armor was one solid block it would be far more perfect. but armor is thinnest around any part of the body that needs to bend and pivot and therefore couldn't be made of a thick solid piece of plate. if forced to fight against a knight these are the area's you aim for. shows like Mythbusters and those on the history channel explain the mechcanics behind items used in cmabt but not combat themselves, keep that in mind.

it was scary to go against a knight but it's FAR from invincible. remember to take into account that we're speak of the entire bodies armor not just your chest plate. there's no 'ovaerall' coverage irl.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:50 pm

if we are going past chest plate, then need to look into the leggings, and it would nto be as hardto move in chain greaves as it would be to move in plated greaves. Thus you should be able to drow adeptedly in chain greaves and be far better protected but less capable of dodging in plated greaves.