Illarion.org

Cain Freemont wrote: You are truly dim to the subject I am speaking of. Surrounding a town with walls is nothing like wearing armour. Wearing armour does not center a large group of people into one collective area so they may easily be slaughtered. Wearing armour actually protects the body. These walls only hold in the people of town from dangers outside it, right? Wrong. These walls only make people fear what is on the outside, when really whatever is out there could EASILY enter by killing a few guards. It has been done before, I have seen the slain bodies of many town guards.
The walls protect no one when rot worms and ogres seem to enter the perimeters rather simply. The walls protect no one when assassins sneak in, slaughter guards, and sneak back out. The walls protect no one when an opposing force really wishes to enter.

You are simply put, wrong.
Your logic is based on saying that wearing shirts alone is useless on a cold night, so therefore we shouldn't wear shirts at all, when in fact combining them with and coats and shirts would actually help keep us warm.
Is simple stupidity if anyone expects a wall to magically keep out all dangers and replace the use of men and weapons, and nobody ever said that would be the case. They are all components meant to be used together. A wall could only make our defenses better in most situations even if not by as much in some others, or please tell me why any castle or fort in the world has walls, when all the drawbacks you mentioned could apply equally to them as well?

When a knight puts on a big heavy platemail to battle, I highly doubt he is thinking of running way.
We are on an ISLAND. This "collective" area you speak of is what we call "home", Cain Freemont.
Where will we run too if we have to give up our homes? Push ourselves into the home of the dwarves and hobbits? Or the criminal sanctity of Notherot or Callahorn?
We obviously value our home here very much, or we would have left the troubles of the island long ago. For us to flee would be a situation as desperate as half the town being dead already.
We wouldn't be running away unless you had some crazy idea that we were losing so badly it would be necessary to run away, and then somehow a few hours later it would be safe to go back into town. This doesn't happen in real life here. This only happens in an imaginary fantasy world.

Cain Freemont wrote: No, I never said it was honourable to spill the blood of citizens. You are simply adding your own words. Yes, I say Lyrenzia does not care about its people. When a government remains neutral without knowing its citizens by name and face, it does not care about its people. When a government can so easily cast aside any member of its community that it wishes, it does not care about its people. Of course I hate Lyrenzia. And yet, no one has bothered to ask why. Maybe because they don't care? Well, I'll tell you why anyway. Lyrenzia destroyed the true Troll's Bane long ago, when it first forced its way into power. By forcing the other guilds to become a part of the Foundation or lose power, Lyrenzia damned Troll's Bane and everything and everyone in her borders. I have lived in these lands longer than the dream of Lyrenzia has even existed, yet did anyone ask my opinion about such a government? No. Did anyone ask my friends, whom have also been living here longer than Lyrenzia has existed? No. You Lyrenzia scum just took it all for yourselves. You claimed ownership of the land. How disgusting. You say I never provide reasons or proof, well that is because Lyrenzia removes all of its shady history from the walls. I have seen many torn up parchments regarding Lyrenzia. I know this to be true. Anyone who does any extensive research on the matter would know this.

You like to blame all your troubles on some entity called "Lyrenzia", that much I can tell. But why don't you answer my question first and name "who" exactly are the "scum" and tell me how can such scum stay in power when those that give them the power are ordinary people with the same needs as you and me, hmm?

Cain Freemont wrote: Has anyone in the Lyrenzia Foundation EVER asked how townsfolk actually feel about the Foundation? Has Lyrenzia ever conducted a survey of how well the Foundation is run? If you want to see where your loyalties truly lie, do so. Show that you give a damn what happens to the people. SHOW the people that you are not a bunch of worthless, greedy, selfish sacks of scum.
Actions speak louder than words. Hell, maybe you will even get an apology from me if you manage to prove me wrong.

Yes. Yes is has, all the time.
The Grey Rose should feel great about Lennier's work, or why do they not replace him?
The halflings should feel great about Crosis's work, or why do they not choose another leader?
The dwarves should feel great about Tialdin's work, or why do they follow such a king?
The common folk should feel great about the work of their public councilors which they elected, or why did they elect him/her? Why do they not ask him/her replaced? Or they can simply elect other people after 3 months?
Everything that "Lyrenzia" does, is the result of the desires of the people who chose the representitives to do it. So if the representitives are not doing what they want, why do they choose them and not someone else? Or what do those "greedy worthless scum" as you put it, have to gain when the money for walls and guards are coming out of their pockets?

But do you actually care enough to gather nominees who will represent the interests of you and your friends? No of course not. You just want to complain and blame "Lyrenzia" when bad things happen, because it's so much easier to blame some entity that you can't put a single face on.

Grant Herion wrote:You ignored what I said about when Darlok's rots came, and then when the rots formed a tunnel underground and they came near the tavern. And then when ogres invaded from the west. Walls were useless, infact they were the reason people died.

Grant Herion

Yeah, just because wearing a huge fur coat was uselss against a powerful mage and his blizzard spell, we should just walk around naked from now on even if it's cold.

On honourable representive, you mean that "If your not in lyrenzia, or not on our council, we couldent give two shites about what you think, so bloody well sod off!"


For once your people try to make a democratic vote of their own, and you bring them down. Such a great, listening, society you are.

Bastards.


~Istan Rockwall~

Apparently this idiot has never heard of the public election in which anyone who has lived here for at least 4 months can participate in.

And apparently he thinks that anonymous tallies (in which the results supported Lyrenzia's decision anyways) on a town wall is a fair democratic vote.
Alright, I move that Istan Rockwall should be forced to wear fluffy pants. Now I will put 100 anonymous tallies on it.
Wow, what a marvelously effective democratic voting system, don't you think Istan?

Albernon wrote:when the money for walls and guards are coming out of their pockets?

I totally agree with your point of view, but I have to add that the guard doesn´t get any kind of pay.

sig.
Guillermo Ballesta

I like the walls, they give me something to climb up and then jump off of. That's the purpose they serve in my world; they're not such a bad idea. My money didn't fund its construction.

Such a primitive way of thinking. Very cute, blessed child.

Konstantin smiles

Hey, are you insulting me? I may be small and only fifteen years old but I bet I'll punch your lights out one day old bag! I'll be looking for you...

Very nice...
Alice, I have a question for you. What happened to the rest of your companions, when you returned from your travel?

What do you mean? Luthien and I had thought that Malinne was dead, and Luthien only accompanied me back to the island to make sure I returned safely. She left only a couple days later. We didn't get along very well... Now Malinne is supposedly on the island now, or at least she was a few months ago. I still haven't seen her but I know she must be here somewhere. Why are you concerned?

First of all the walls are no sign of cowardice. That is like saying "All who live in houses are cowards because they have walls that protect them from the weather." It is like saying "gerat and awe-inspiring castles of old that are still standing today are a sign of cowardice". But there were many that lived in castles (and some that still do..) and they still stand. Does that tell you something?
Second of all the gates are easily defendable by even one man if you know what you are doing. The walls are no trap. Anyone can leave or come in if they have the right to be there. We also trade freely with merchants from neighboring lands and the walls being down would make it no easier because the trade routes would be the same.
If the walls were removed the protection from the zombies to the north would be gone. Many people dedicate their time and skills to things other than learning to use a blade and use their fists for things other than bloodshed. These people rely on the walls to keep monsters and foes away while they make their living safely. Granted, the zombies can follow someone inside the town, but all they need do is call for help and help is there.
Some passive people have good reason to fear what is outside the town. Would you order that all peoples put down their trades and learn to fight against their will, beacuse that is what it sounds like.

To the Movement: It is easy for you to say "tear down the walls to make everyone free" and to hide behind false intenions of peace, but there are those of us who know what peace REALLY is. You mention "prosperity of it's (the town's) citizens" and you are eager to jabber on about peace even as you come into town, blades drawn and magic ready, with your hordes of misguided followers slaying and picking fights with town guards! Were you not blinded by your hatred of those that protect the town you would see that they DO fight for the things you can only TALK about, like peace and prosperity. Never have I seen someone from your prescious movement come into town without attacking even defenseless citizens or the guards, or talking of peace from the top of the shop as you hid behind your cowardly walls of fire cast to keep away those who would hurt yu. I have never come across a more cowardly group of hypocrates than you, and I have lived a very long time.

That is why the walls should stay: to keep out those of you who would run the town you willy-nilly, swords drawn, blood thirsty, fight picking cowards. The walls are there to protect the comman person safe from people like you, who attack in odds only to your favour. For the Gods' sakes stand up for something WORTH believing in, like actual peace.

Quinasa

but there are those of us who know what peace REALLY is

Like the peace when I leave my home which was here before a lot of you, and I get killed because I am in town. I was just leaving out, it is not my fault my father made that small room. It was people like the town guard that forced him to make it.

To the Movement: It is easy for you to say "tear down the walls to make everyone free" and to hide behind false intenions of peace, but there are those of us who know what peace REALLY is. You mention "prosperity of it's (the town's) citizens" and you are eager to jabber on about peace even as you come into town, blades drawn and magic ready, with your hordes of misguided followers slaying and picking fights with town guards! Were you not blinded by your hatred of those that protect the town you would see that they DO fight for the things you can only TALK about, like peace and prosperity. Never have I seen someone from your prescious movement come into town without attacking even defenseless citizens or the guards, or talking of peace from the top of the shop as you hid behind your cowardly walls of fire cast to keep away those who would hurt yu. I have never come across a more cowardly group of hypocrates than you, and I have lived a very long time.

Woah..that was the dumbest thing i've ever heard.do you not relize that the town guard starts most of the fightsm also we have come in to town many time with out starting fights.....


*Doesn't bother to sign the note, since he doesn't plan on take this argument any farther*