*a thick scroll*
Moderator: Gamemasters
Then why do you not merely sell it and gain money for it? I can answer that, because its far more powerful and worth more than you say it is. An experienced mage would pay a fortune just to study this. Bring pleasure to Moshran if you wish and spill blood. Northrot has a government, Trollsbane does not.
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Val De Gausse
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Damien
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- Location: Vanima and grey Refuge, of course.
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Indeed, the Knights of the Grey Rose do have their correct arguments. Indeed, the other side also has correct arguments. The problem in this situation is the general view of the things.
In fact, it IS unrightful to demand money of people, threatening them with death, to pay gold for simply walking a piece of land. As the Northerot people do.
In fact, it IS unrightful to mark every person who belongs to a group of people as criminal, also using death penalty. As the Grey Rose does.
We have here another simple example for the law of balance : Northerot starts to harm Troll's Banes people in Northerot, as a response, the Grey Rose starts to harm Northerot people in Troll's Bane.
Before, everything was in balance : Noone harmed noone for trespassing anywhere.
Now, everything is in balance : Some Northerot people harm Troll's Bane people in Northerot, some Troll's Bane people harm Northerot people in Troll's Bane.
Every action causes a reaction. Every force we create, causes an opposing force of about the same strength.
The pendulum swings.
In order to slow down this swinging, what causes harm and pain, we should find a solution. In fact, the solution is simple :
I suppose that Northerot people stop harming Troll's Bane People, and Troll's Bane people stop harming Northerot people. This must be done by both sides.
Darlok's Case is a different thing. He has threatened the whole island population, with some exclusions. Darlok's crime was "mass threatening" with harmful reactions in the balance of nature.
As a trade, he gave the item, the source of his power, to us, and his castle was built. We have restored the item to the place and use it was thought for, so it will never be misused again.
This way, Darlok has "payed" for the building of the castle.
On the other hand, he has no right to claim the lands around the castle. Lyrenzia also does not claim any land.
I propose the following solution, consisting of five points to honor the five :
In fact, it IS unrightful to demand money of people, threatening them with death, to pay gold for simply walking a piece of land. As the Northerot people do.
In fact, it IS unrightful to mark every person who belongs to a group of people as criminal, also using death penalty. As the Grey Rose does.
We have here another simple example for the law of balance : Northerot starts to harm Troll's Banes people in Northerot, as a response, the Grey Rose starts to harm Northerot people in Troll's Bane.
Before, everything was in balance : Noone harmed noone for trespassing anywhere.
Now, everything is in balance : Some Northerot people harm Troll's Bane people in Northerot, some Troll's Bane people harm Northerot people in Troll's Bane.
Every action causes a reaction. Every force we create, causes an opposing force of about the same strength.
The pendulum swings.
In order to slow down this swinging, what causes harm and pain, we should find a solution. In fact, the solution is simple :
I suppose that Northerot people stop harming Troll's Bane People, and Troll's Bane people stop harming Northerot people. This must be done by both sides.
Darlok's Case is a different thing. He has threatened the whole island population, with some exclusions. Darlok's crime was "mass threatening" with harmful reactions in the balance of nature.
As a trade, he gave the item, the source of his power, to us, and his castle was built. We have restored the item to the place and use it was thought for, so it will never be misused again.
This way, Darlok has "payed" for the building of the castle.
On the other hand, he has no right to claim the lands around the castle. Lyrenzia also does not claim any land.
I propose the following solution, consisting of five points to honor the five :
- Northerot stops claiming the land as theirs, and stops demanding a fee, as well stopping to murder people who do not pay it.
- The Grey Rose and the citizens of Troll's Bane stop harming northerot people in Troll's Bane, and will not declare every northerot person as criminal anymore.
- The "Border", from then on, stops being a border of countries, and starts being a border of the different law systems and law responsibilities. In case of border crimes, the side where the victim stands, counts as the responsible side.
- Darlok is a criminal in Troll's Bane. He may never leave the law of Northerot, else it may happen that he is hunted by the grey rose or other lawkeepers in Troll's Bane, resulting in his imprisonment, until his punishment time, set in a trial in his absence(he will have to send messengers), has passed.
- The Grey Rose will not hunt Darlok in Northerot, who lives in a state of Asylum there.
Darlok has taken responsibility for his actions and has set up the form of government called a monarchy. The Grey Rose wants these governing powers without the responsibility and consent of the townspeople. They are claiming Trollsbane with actions, not words. I say if the townspeople agree to something and set up a government they can do as they wish, but something I have yet to see is more than a few non-Grey Rose person support this "war" and terms of dealing with Northrot citizens in Trollsbane.
People who cross the border knowing the consequences pay for their own stupidity, most of the new and ignorent people to the island are let free with only a warning. As there is no real reason to be there.
~Allerus~
People who cross the border knowing the consequences pay for their own stupidity, most of the new and ignorent people to the island are let free with only a warning. As there is no real reason to be there.
~Allerus~
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The Returner
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Falk vom Wald
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- Location: Kloster Eldan, Trollsbane
Be greeted People of Trolls Bane,
you asked for my Attention and I grand it to you, this time.
Damiens Suggestions might be good, but are flawed in vitual points.
1. The Land arround my Castle was No-Mans-Land before I came and claimed it.
So nobody needs to 'clearify' my Owernship above it, its simply mine.
Especialy Lyrenzia should not talk about this point, as far as many of thier officals claimed, mostly Grey Rose Members, Lyrenzia claims Trolls Bane as thier Terretory. I am fine with that, keep that sin pool and be happy.
But they stated even more that thier power ends with the Gates of Trolls Bane.
So I ask you, why its your buissness what I do with my Land, whats far away from the Gates of Trolls Bane?
The Fine, for entering my Land, remains.
It should be common knowlegde now that everyone who is not a offical Citizen or not in accompany with one will be fined.
He can pay this prize either in Gold, or in Equipment of equal worth.
If he refuses he will be removed from my Land, if he refuses to leave my Guards are allowed to use force.
This Law is almost alike the Dwarfs of Silverbrand handle thier unwanted subjects.
To my pitty, I can not install huge Gates at my Boarder.
2. I fully support this point.
3. It is and will remain as a Boarder of Countries, but actualy our "Countries" do not boarder each other.
My Boarder ends where the Desert starts, and the Desert does not belong anyone.
I often stated, that my Laws only count inside of Northerot.
So if one of my Men commits a Crime in Trolls Bane, and is guilty with no doubt, than he can be punished by the current Law System of Trolls Bane.
4. I go whereever I want to go, but have no fear. I dont intent to visit Trolls Bane in the future again.
5. A wise advice, Elder Damien.
Darlok, Lord of the North
Supreme Ruler of Northerot
you asked for my Attention and I grand it to you, this time.
Damiens Suggestions might be good, but are flawed in vitual points.
1. The Land arround my Castle was No-Mans-Land before I came and claimed it.
So nobody needs to 'clearify' my Owernship above it, its simply mine.
Especialy Lyrenzia should not talk about this point, as far as many of thier officals claimed, mostly Grey Rose Members, Lyrenzia claims Trolls Bane as thier Terretory. I am fine with that, keep that sin pool and be happy.
But they stated even more that thier power ends with the Gates of Trolls Bane.
So I ask you, why its your buissness what I do with my Land, whats far away from the Gates of Trolls Bane?
The Fine, for entering my Land, remains.
It should be common knowlegde now that everyone who is not a offical Citizen or not in accompany with one will be fined.
He can pay this prize either in Gold, or in Equipment of equal worth.
If he refuses he will be removed from my Land, if he refuses to leave my Guards are allowed to use force.
This Law is almost alike the Dwarfs of Silverbrand handle thier unwanted subjects.
To my pitty, I can not install huge Gates at my Boarder.
2. I fully support this point.
3. It is and will remain as a Boarder of Countries, but actualy our "Countries" do not boarder each other.
My Boarder ends where the Desert starts, and the Desert does not belong anyone.
I often stated, that my Laws only count inside of Northerot.
So if one of my Men commits a Crime in Trolls Bane, and is guilty with no doubt, than he can be punished by the current Law System of Trolls Bane.
4. I go whereever I want to go, but have no fear. I dont intent to visit Trolls Bane in the future again.
5. A wise advice, Elder Damien.
Darlok, Lord of the North
Supreme Ruler of Northerot
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Damien
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Well, if you take out the non-claiming of land AND the fee, you have discussed out your price to pay in the deal.
It IS a balance. Both sides have to give something to achieve something.
Lyrenzia does NOT claim land, and it never did. It is a judical system.
It is all a question of balance. You have hurt the balance by putting up a fee, threatening the lives of trespassers who live in Troll's Bane. A natural reaction is the threatening of the lives of those living in Northerot when trespassing troll's Bane.
Of course, the balance would also be restored when both, Lyrenzia AND Northerot, claim Land as their own. But since Lyrenzia is NOT a government, that is impossible. Only the people of Troll's Bane COULD elect it to a government, but that is most unlikely.
Accept the above as it is. This is a compromise for BOTH sides. And only this way, both can keep their honor !
So, you have the single choice of changing the deal :
Either, people can walk free wherever they want, without paying any fees.
Or, you still claim the land as yours WITH your fee, AND Troll's Bane will put an identical fee for every Northerot person travelling in Troll's Bane and the surrounding lands.
This way, balance is of course restored again. It is your choice.
But always remember the following : You humans have forgotten that land can never be owned by a person. You can put a fence around it, you can defend it, you can pay with blood or demand blood of others. You can enslave it, you can burn it, you can change its shape - it will never really be "Your" Land, since when you are gone and died by old age, your corpse will return to the land IT belongs TO. And when you yourself are long forgotten, the land will still be, it will grow and wipe away every scar you caused on it.
To "own" land, is a human view of things. In fact, the land "owns" you.
Accept the conditions, or accept the problems you cause.
I advice you to think, and decide with wisdom and with the necessary responsibility for your people, that rests on your shoulders.
It IS a balance. Both sides have to give something to achieve something.
Lyrenzia does NOT claim land, and it never did. It is a judical system.
It is all a question of balance. You have hurt the balance by putting up a fee, threatening the lives of trespassers who live in Troll's Bane. A natural reaction is the threatening of the lives of those living in Northerot when trespassing troll's Bane.
Of course, the balance would also be restored when both, Lyrenzia AND Northerot, claim Land as their own. But since Lyrenzia is NOT a government, that is impossible. Only the people of Troll's Bane COULD elect it to a government, but that is most unlikely.
Accept the above as it is. This is a compromise for BOTH sides. And only this way, both can keep their honor !
So, you have the single choice of changing the deal :
Either, people can walk free wherever they want, without paying any fees.
Or, you still claim the land as yours WITH your fee, AND Troll's Bane will put an identical fee for every Northerot person travelling in Troll's Bane and the surrounding lands.
This way, balance is of course restored again. It is your choice.
But always remember the following : You humans have forgotten that land can never be owned by a person. You can put a fence around it, you can defend it, you can pay with blood or demand blood of others. You can enslave it, you can burn it, you can change its shape - it will never really be "Your" Land, since when you are gone and died by old age, your corpse will return to the land IT belongs TO. And when you yourself are long forgotten, the land will still be, it will grow and wipe away every scar you caused on it.
To "own" land, is a human view of things. In fact, the land "owns" you.
Accept the conditions, or accept the problems you cause.
I advice you to think, and decide with wisdom and with the necessary responsibility for your people, that rests on your shoulders.
Dear Damien,
your proposal sounds interesting to us. We will discuss it.
But as you allready see, Darlok is again the one, going in the bad direction as all the years before, blinded and arrogante in his self-righteous way.
Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia
your proposal sounds interesting to us. We will discuss it.
But as you allready see, Darlok is again the one, going in the bad direction as all the years before, blinded and arrogante in his self-righteous way.
Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia
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The Returner
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- Location: Turny For GM '12
Aragon Ben Galwan, and Adano Eles! This should look familiar, to both of you:
1. YOU SHALL NOT PROVOKE. - MINOR GUILT
It is not necessary. If you are provoked, answer wise. If you have agressions, use them on monsters.
2. YOU SHALL NOT INSULT. - NORMAL GUILT
If you are insulted yourself, then respond wise and friendly using your brain. Remember, your languague represents your origin, and your wisdom, and the guild itself!
3. YOU SHALL NOT ATTACK. - MAJOR GUILT
Not without a very good reason. If attacked by others, respond quickly and deadly.
2. WEAKNESS.
If you resort to violence this only shows the weakness of your mind. Control your emotions. Especially the negative ones, and the strong feelings. Don't give in! But laugh as much as you want ! That is honor.
7. PAY BACK.
Repay good deeds with good deeds but don't repay evil with evil. Be fair and thankful. That is honor.
8. RESPECT.
Respect the other members, and respect friends of the guild. Also respect a strong enemy, or monster. That is honor
1. YOU SHALL NOT PROVOKE. - MINOR GUILT
It is not necessary. If you are provoked, answer wise. If you have agressions, use them on monsters.
2. YOU SHALL NOT INSULT. - NORMAL GUILT
If you are insulted yourself, then respond wise and friendly using your brain. Remember, your languague represents your origin, and your wisdom, and the guild itself!
3. YOU SHALL NOT ATTACK. - MAJOR GUILT
Not without a very good reason. If attacked by others, respond quickly and deadly.
2. WEAKNESS.
If you resort to violence this only shows the weakness of your mind. Control your emotions. Especially the negative ones, and the strong feelings. Don't give in! But laugh as much as you want ! That is honor.
7. PAY BACK.
Repay good deeds with good deeds but don't repay evil with evil. Be fair and thankful. That is honor.
8. RESPECT.
Respect the other members, and respect friends of the guild. Also respect a strong enemy, or monster. That is honor
Aragon Wrote: Darlok is again the one, going in the bad direction as all the years before, blinded and arrogante in his self-righteous way.
Adano wrote: The point is not who built the castle, the point is how they were made building it. If Darlok would simply have payed some workers to build him a castle from his own money we probably wouldn't be in this situation now. But he used magic to threaten the island with a drought abd blackmailed the people to build it. And don't tell me he didn't, I was there to hear his demands.
"Build me a castle right here and I will end the drought" he said.
This is blackmailing and criminal behaviour and the Grey Rose can and will not accept your unrightful claims of this land, and we will keep on fighting Darlok and everyone who supports his insane plans until he recieved the punishment he deserves.