Just one little remark:
A lot of the things suggested are good and we will consider that. Though, some of them are good but technically impossible or very difficult to implement. This is just to prevent people from being disappointed because one or the other feature was not built in.
Martin
Concerning: New Fighting System
Moderator: Gamemasters
I think what would be a good way to do this is.only count hits that are parried not all misses.Crosis wrote:Think about it, this would only make powergaming worse. People could throw two shields on and let monsters hack away at them for as long as they want. They wouldn't have to worry about potions or healing them selves.Konstantin K wrote:1. Parry should increase when the character blocks the move or when the character parries and is not hurt by the hit, not when he or she IS hurt. That would partially solve powergaming problem.
if the monster missis because of equiped armor no parry increese. they would have to be between armor protection and being hit to increes parry this way and therefor a bit hard to powergame for they have to be able to be hit but also able to block each hit to even think of a posable increase in the skill.
Like someone already said (I'm not totally sure anymore, who), it's
kind of difficult fighting behind your back, where you can see neither
your enemy, nor his hits. And then I don't think, it's very possible to even
hit the person, if you're looking the other way.
I propose, one can only really fight (dodge & hit) if the enemy were in
front of you (the three sqaures).
Furthermore, it's impossible to be in the middle of let's say 5-8 ogres
and not get hit a single time...You can be as good as you want with
dodging and you'd normally still be hit often, cause firstly there's no space to
dodge and secondly you'd need like 5 eyes and arms to hold the amount
of shields you'd need...
kind of difficult fighting behind your back, where you can see neither
your enemy, nor his hits. And then I don't think, it's very possible to even
hit the person, if you're looking the other way.
I propose, one can only really fight (dodge & hit) if the enemy were in
front of you (the three sqaures).
Furthermore, it's impossible to be in the middle of let's say 5-8 ogres
and not get hit a single time...You can be as good as you want with
dodging and you'd normally still be hit often, cause firstly there's no space to
dodge and secondly you'd need like 5 eyes and arms to hold the amount
of shields you'd need...
Last edited by Trice on Thu Jun 26, 2003 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Maktan Hardtooth.
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I agree. Maybe weaken the parry for every additional person that attacks? I don't know if i explained that right. Like against an ogre his parry is so high he can't get hit. then comes another ogre. now he get's hit every once in a while.and so on and so on.
(Darlok i pmed you that i won't post hear again but i thought this was a good post so um sorry)
(Darlok i pmed you that i won't post hear again but i thought this was a good post so um sorry)
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Grant Herion
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- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 1:26 am
Problem- New players fighting demons and rots and winning.
Example- Lots of new players powergamed to get where they are, I don't know their names.
Solution- It is obvious they powergamed, but since you can't totally prove it you can't ban them, (or can you...
). Now I was thinking, maybe you could make it so your character has to be around for say 3 months until you could raise your parry skills and slashing and other fighting skills high enough to face a demon and win.
This would definitely solve newer players from fighting a demon the first week they play the game and it may help against powergamers because everyone can only raise their skills after a certain amount of time.
I would definetly like to hear if this is a good idea and/or is possible.
Thanks
Grant
Example- Lots of new players powergamed to get where they are, I don't know their names.
Solution- It is obvious they powergamed, but since you can't totally prove it you can't ban them, (or can you...
). Now I was thinking, maybe you could make it so your character has to be around for say 3 months until you could raise your parry skills and slashing and other fighting skills high enough to face a demon and win. This would definitely solve newer players from fighting a demon the first week they play the game and it may help against powergamers because everyone can only raise their skills after a certain amount of time.
I would definetly like to hear if this is a good idea and/or is possible.
Thanks
Grant
Concerning Grant'sidea:
Not getting any skills for the first 3 months would not only be very unrealistic,
but also annoying.
Better would be, that in this time, one would get far less skills than normal.
...
Or alltogether skills would be harder to gain...
I propose um....again 20-50 time harder than now?
Plus the input of stamina and then if someone gets master at anything,
he can be proud of himself.
Not getting any skills for the first 3 months would not only be very unrealistic,
but also annoying.
Better would be, that in this time, one would get far less skills than normal.
...
Or alltogether skills would be harder to gain...
I propose um....again 20-50 time harder than now?
Plus the input of stamina and then if someone gets master at anything,
he can be proud of himself.
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Grant Herion
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- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 1:26 am
No no, I didn't mean no skills until you are in for 3 months, I am saying you have to wait 3 months until you get your skills high enough to be able to fight demons and rots and expect to win.
Here are some time tables:
1st day- Kill pigs, sheep and flies
1st week- Kill mummys and scorpions
3rd week- Kill Ogres
6th week- Kill Skeletons
9th week- Kill spiders
12th week- Kill demon skeletons and beholders
15th week- kill Demon and Rot worms
That is roughly a time table, I am not sure if you would accept it, maybe to long. But if implemented this would definetely stop powergaming in the fighting system.
Here are some time tables:
1st day- Kill pigs, sheep and flies
1st week- Kill mummys and scorpions
3rd week- Kill Ogres
6th week- Kill Skeletons
9th week- Kill spiders
12th week- Kill demon skeletons and beholders
15th week- kill Demon and Rot worms
That is roughly a time table, I am not sure if you would accept it, maybe to long. But if implemented this would definetely stop powergaming in the fighting system.
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Grant Herion
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- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 1:26 am
Grant why are you so focused on fighting? Skill gain is not faster for fighting skills than all others I mean there are plenty of new players who are masters at blacksmithing, carpentry etc. Also your idea would not stop powergaming at all only (if even that) delay it so that new players or chars would stay weak for 15 weeks or what it was. It does not seem fair and not realistic as they are not babies when they come but could just as well have been a great warrior from their homeland.
Many seem to belive letting flies and scorpions hit you makes you really strong, to all who do this it is NOT true and it is obvious powergaming as you do not even fight back and everyone needs to stop this.
To only gain fighting skills when actually fighting would be better, ie you gain no parry unless you have the enemy targetted and fight back. Cause to gain attacking skills you obviously have to attack...
There is of course a problem with fighting mulitple monsters and all who so much insist on useless powergaming start fighting with needles and crap. I think the solution to parry powergaming is here with some hopefully simple changes in the fighting system where you gain no fighting skills unless you actually fight.
This may belong in another topic really it does concern a change in the fighting system but if I am totally off topic Darlok I apoligize.
Many seem to belive letting flies and scorpions hit you makes you really strong, to all who do this it is NOT true and it is obvious powergaming as you do not even fight back and everyone needs to stop this.
To only gain fighting skills when actually fighting would be better, ie you gain no parry unless you have the enemy targetted and fight back. Cause to gain attacking skills you obviously have to attack...
There is of course a problem with fighting mulitple monsters and all who so much insist on useless powergaming start fighting with needles and crap. I think the solution to parry powergaming is here with some hopefully simple changes in the fighting system where you gain no fighting skills unless you actually fight.
This may belong in another topic really it does concern a change in the fighting system but if I am totally off topic Darlok I apoligize.
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Grant Herion
- Posts: 1813
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2003 1:26 am
It is not that far away from the topic, i consider it as "balancing the new System".
Your example with the great Warrior back in his homeland is quite thin.
If you would be already a great warrior, than you would start with some skills in fighting. But you do not, so you are not a fighter.
This might change when Classes become aviable in the Character Creation.
Grants System has some Pros in it, because in fact it is realistic.
Or have you ever seen a child with an advanced Mathematics-book in his hands and actualy understanding what its just reading?
Grants Time-Barrier System might be linked directly to the Age of the Characters.
... but sadly this is a "Distant Future Thing" and therefore not useable right now.
Draakons Idea is also very logical from the point of Game-Design.
This might be added sooner than Grants Idea.
(If we dont find something better as solution)
Your example with the great Warrior back in his homeland is quite thin.
If you would be already a great warrior, than you would start with some skills in fighting. But you do not, so you are not a fighter.
This might change when Classes become aviable in the Character Creation.
Grants System has some Pros in it, because in fact it is realistic.
Or have you ever seen a child with an advanced Mathematics-book in his hands and actualy understanding what its just reading?
Grants Time-Barrier System might be linked directly to the Age of the Characters.
... but sadly this is a "Distant Future Thing" and therefore not useable right now.
Draakons Idea is also very logical from the point of Game-Design.
This might be added sooner than Grants Idea.
(If we dont find something better as solution)
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Konstantin K
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Pardon me, you are all experienced players, but after playing for a couple of weeks, I want to argue against Grant's proposal. Although the time limit seems to be beneficial for the older players (which is understandable, considering it would secure their status), it is completely unfair for the new players, because it actually would kill some possible RP. It would deny sturdy, pushy people, fair workers.
For example, if a person is willing and ready to spend 10 nights smithing or mining, or carpenting, and makes it his/her personal sacrifice, and make 10 000 mouse clicks - they should have a right to do that, because in RL there are no realistic limitations for one's effort. There is nothing in real life that tells you that you can't read another book today because .... just because you have to wait another month.
You may argue - in RL people get tired, but my argument back is - you get tired of work in Illarion too. Not everyone can click the mouse that many times, not everyone wants to do that, not many have enough willpower to devote themselves to a craft. But there are players that are willing to be busy, and it is their right, I think. Otherwise, how do you look at this:
For two weeks all miners, farmers, carpenters, glassblowers are walking around town doing nothing, and when you ask them, they answer: I have reached my learning limit during the first two days of the week, so now I'm just doing nothing.
All that person is left to do is to go learn other crafts, so by the end of first tw o weeks he is equally good in all the crafts. We do not really want that, since that will kill the specialization in professions. By the end of the next "learning period", all people will be equally good at all crafts on some level, waiting for the gates to open.
Now, fighting skills are a bit different. But then again, if for the first weeks new players will have to stay helpless, they will have to take lots of humiliation, and I bet that will not make their attitude more positive.
My proposal: make parry rise when the character actually dodges the monster's hit, not when they are hit by the monster. Or make monsters learn faster and gain strength fairly quick, so that after 20-30 hits, if not dead, they become much stronger. Powergamers seem to be able to find the balance between their armor, and the monster's attack power. That balance has to be ruined so badly, that they would have to adjust to the battle's environment every other 30 seconds. Or... make it so the character tired of fighting the same monster for example. Make character's ability to shield and stand hits lessen, when they are not attacking.
For example, if a person is willing and ready to spend 10 nights smithing or mining, or carpenting, and makes it his/her personal sacrifice, and make 10 000 mouse clicks - they should have a right to do that, because in RL there are no realistic limitations for one's effort. There is nothing in real life that tells you that you can't read another book today because .... just because you have to wait another month.
You may argue - in RL people get tired, but my argument back is - you get tired of work in Illarion too. Not everyone can click the mouse that many times, not everyone wants to do that, not many have enough willpower to devote themselves to a craft. But there are players that are willing to be busy, and it is their right, I think. Otherwise, how do you look at this:
For two weeks all miners, farmers, carpenters, glassblowers are walking around town doing nothing, and when you ask them, they answer: I have reached my learning limit during the first two days of the week, so now I'm just doing nothing.
All that person is left to do is to go learn other crafts, so by the end of first tw o weeks he is equally good in all the crafts. We do not really want that, since that will kill the specialization in professions. By the end of the next "learning period", all people will be equally good at all crafts on some level, waiting for the gates to open.
Now, fighting skills are a bit different. But then again, if for the first weeks new players will have to stay helpless, they will have to take lots of humiliation, and I bet that will not make their attitude more positive.
My proposal: make parry rise when the character actually dodges the monster's hit, not when they are hit by the monster. Or make monsters learn faster and gain strength fairly quick, so that after 20-30 hits, if not dead, they become much stronger. Powergamers seem to be able to find the balance between their armor, and the monster's attack power. That balance has to be ruined so badly, that they would have to adjust to the battle's environment every other 30 seconds. Or... make it so the character tired of fighting the same monster for example. Make character's ability to shield and stand hits lessen, when they are not attacking.
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Caranthir the great
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Grant Herion
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Konstantine (sorry if I spelled it wrong...) you have many faults in your proposal and you argument against mine.
Your Proposal- You say that to raise you parry you must block the monsters hits, this would make powergaming extremely easy. All a powergamer would need to do is use full armor and two shields and let the demons hit their shields. Secondly I am not sure if you can program monsters to get better in fighting, but I am not a programer so I do not know of that.
Also, you say that a person is working hard at 10 000 mouse clicks to get better and say that a learning period would ruin the roleplay. You said that after 2 days of work, which if you got to the second set of smithing or carpentry after 2 rl days would definetely be powergaming, that people would walk around bored because they couldn't get better in their skills. Skills are not what this game is about, it is about fantasy roleplay, people would begin roleplaying and would help the game out.
And, you must keep in mind that in real life, chopping down trees, digging, killing monsters, smithing, carpentry, tailoring, fishing, and gem cutting are all time comsuming and hard labor.
Also, you must also keep in mind that even if you character is supposed to be "a great fighter from a distant island" then you must roleplay that your character isn't very strong compared to Trolls Bane's warriors.
Thanks
Grant
Your Proposal- You say that to raise you parry you must block the monsters hits, this would make powergaming extremely easy. All a powergamer would need to do is use full armor and two shields and let the demons hit their shields. Secondly I am not sure if you can program monsters to get better in fighting, but I am not a programer so I do not know of that.
Also, you say that a person is working hard at 10 000 mouse clicks to get better and say that a learning period would ruin the roleplay. You said that after 2 days of work, which if you got to the second set of smithing or carpentry after 2 rl days would definetely be powergaming, that people would walk around bored because they couldn't get better in their skills. Skills are not what this game is about, it is about fantasy roleplay, people would begin roleplaying and would help the game out.
And, you must keep in mind that in real life, chopping down trees, digging, killing monsters, smithing, carpentry, tailoring, fishing, and gem cutting are all time comsuming and hard labor.
Also, you must also keep in mind that even if you character is supposed to be "a great fighter from a distant island" then you must roleplay that your character isn't very strong compared to Trolls Bane's warriors.
Thanks
Grant
I have a good idea to stop powergaming... sorry if its off topic...
Lets say your fighting. Your first sucsesful hit would give you 10 experience points. then your second sucsesful hit would give you 9 xp, then 8 etc. then it would make it so that the longer you did somthing, the harder it becomes to raise your skill. Then after a certain ammount of time, the ammount of xp goes back to full gain.
This would help the players that go out and fight, come back to town and tell people about their fights and whatever, then go back out and fight. But it would stop people going out and fighting constantly or mining or whatever skill.
(I know there arnt xp points, but i'm using them to explain and according to Grants skill level calender thingy, i'm still on week 3 
)
Lets say your fighting. Your first sucsesful hit would give you 10 experience points. then your second sucsesful hit would give you 9 xp, then 8 etc. then it would make it so that the longer you did somthing, the harder it becomes to raise your skill. Then after a certain ammount of time, the ammount of xp goes back to full gain.
This would help the players that go out and fight, come back to town and tell people about their fights and whatever, then go back out and fight. But it would stop people going out and fighting constantly or mining or whatever skill.
(I know there arnt xp points, but i'm using them to explain
and according to Grants skill level calender thingy, i'm still on week 3 )-
Bloodhearte
- Posts: 1169
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What I would change/suggest...
-Instead of the 'forms silent words with the lips,' I believe it should be changed to 'makes a motion with the hands' because, if a mage were wearing plate mail, it would still be easy for him or her to chant something. However, such heavy armor prevents free motion with the arms, so it would be likely that a spell would be impossible to do. On a popular game series known as Exile by Jeff Vogel, covering yourself in an excessive amount of armor prevents the motions necessary to cast mage spells, although priest spells can still be casted because they only consist of loud chants and prayers. I particularly favor this system because it makes much more sense, so you don't have wizard knights running around.
-The only possible way to prevent one from gaining so much skill in such a short time, there should be limits to how much you can learn as proposed by Konstantine. There is no way to prevent effort from a powergamer in real life; namely, combat skills. I was quite irritated when my battler character was working at a decent pace, and abiding by the rules, while there's some character with a 43*** number killing off demons without a problem.
-Perhaps wearing full clad armor should slow you down as you walk? I know the encumberance feature exists, but you can still walk rather speedy even if you're covered. I imagine an assassin with a leather jerkin can move much quicker than a knight covered head to toe in steel.
Things that I believe should be eliminated...
-Constant paralysis spells to the point where you can't move at all.
-I agree with Fedaykin on this; two shields.
-Magic resistance; I think the way you resist against magic should be intertwined with your parry instead, as dodging an ice bolt doesn't seem impossible as it just doesn't follow you as you move; that, or getting knicked from trying to dodge it. The only way to even raise magic resistance before you're a senior citizen is to powergame with a partner, and fighters wouldn't fall victim to easily being beaten by magic if they are strong.
-Instead of the 'forms silent words with the lips,' I believe it should be changed to 'makes a motion with the hands' because, if a mage were wearing plate mail, it would still be easy for him or her to chant something. However, such heavy armor prevents free motion with the arms, so it would be likely that a spell would be impossible to do. On a popular game series known as Exile by Jeff Vogel, covering yourself in an excessive amount of armor prevents the motions necessary to cast mage spells, although priest spells can still be casted because they only consist of loud chants and prayers. I particularly favor this system because it makes much more sense, so you don't have wizard knights running around.
-The only possible way to prevent one from gaining so much skill in such a short time, there should be limits to how much you can learn as proposed by Konstantine. There is no way to prevent effort from a powergamer in real life; namely, combat skills. I was quite irritated when my battler character was working at a decent pace, and abiding by the rules, while there's some character with a 43*** number killing off demons without a problem.
-Perhaps wearing full clad armor should slow you down as you walk? I know the encumberance feature exists, but you can still walk rather speedy even if you're covered. I imagine an assassin with a leather jerkin can move much quicker than a knight covered head to toe in steel.
Things that I believe should be eliminated...
-Constant paralysis spells to the point where you can't move at all.
-I agree with Fedaykin on this; two shields.
-Magic resistance; I think the way you resist against magic should be intertwined with your parry instead, as dodging an ice bolt doesn't seem impossible as it just doesn't follow you as you move; that, or getting knicked from trying to dodge it. The only way to even raise magic resistance before you're a senior citizen is to powergame with a partner, and fighters wouldn't fall victim to easily being beaten by magic if they are strong.
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paul laffing
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Uhm... what was I going to say... ah, yes.
Okay, so you're a new player, and you start out, and lo and behold! You are being sniped! But who is doing it? Hmm... there is no way to know, of course! Realistically, if someone was sniping you with a bow and you were looking in their direction, you could tell where they are. I think that you should be highlighted if you are using a bow on someone and they are looking in your general direction.
More on range weapons: Spears should be extremely strong, but very hard to master, harder than other weapons. If you were to throw a spear at someone and hit them, they would undoubtedly die. But it is hard to throw a spear, if you have ever tried javelin throwing (Hard to make it go any distance at all, even harder to hit a target).
Throwing stars shouldn't hurt as much because, yes, they are painful, but they don't penetrate the skin as much. The only problem with this is, they would be hard to train with, too, so whats the use of using them? Well, they would be very inexpensive and easy to use, a good beginners weapon.
Arrows should be right in between in damage, and pretty easy to use, but harder to make than throwing starts and spears. That would make the whole system even.
And, a graphic example:
Damage (least to greatest): throwing stars>arrows>spears
Difficulty to produce (least to greatest): throwing stars>spears>arrows
Difficulty to learn (least to greatest): arrows>throwing stars>spears
Okay, so you're a new player, and you start out, and lo and behold! You are being sniped! But who is doing it? Hmm... there is no way to know, of course! Realistically, if someone was sniping you with a bow and you were looking in their direction, you could tell where they are. I think that you should be highlighted if you are using a bow on someone and they are looking in your general direction.
More on range weapons: Spears should be extremely strong, but very hard to master, harder than other weapons. If you were to throw a spear at someone and hit them, they would undoubtedly die. But it is hard to throw a spear, if you have ever tried javelin throwing (Hard to make it go any distance at all, even harder to hit a target).
Throwing stars shouldn't hurt as much because, yes, they are painful, but they don't penetrate the skin as much. The only problem with this is, they would be hard to train with, too, so whats the use of using them? Well, they would be very inexpensive and easy to use, a good beginners weapon.
Arrows should be right in between in damage, and pretty easy to use, but harder to make than throwing starts and spears. That would make the whole system even.
And, a graphic example:
Damage (least to greatest): throwing stars>arrows>spears
Difficulty to produce (least to greatest): throwing stars>spears>arrows
Difficulty to learn (least to greatest): arrows>throwing stars>spears
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Miliae Alquaria
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It would be interesting if your postion to whatever you are fighting affected it. If the creature is right in front of you, and you are facing the creature, that should give both you and the creature the greatest attack ability. However, if you are directly in front of the creature, but facing the opposite direction, then your attack ability should be minimal, as well as your defense, since it makes since that a creature could easily attack you from the back.
Different positions would then have varying degrees of attack/defense. This would allow for purposeful movement while fighting, for both the player and the creature, dodging/attacking/jumping back or to the side.
Excuse me if this is already implemented and I don't know about it...it's possible.
Different positions would then have varying degrees of attack/defense. This would allow for purposeful movement while fighting, for both the player and the creature, dodging/attacking/jumping back or to the side.
Excuse me if this is already implemented and I don't know about it...it's possible.
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Bloodhearte
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Actually Paul, throwing stars should do plenty of damage, as they do have the possibility of penetrating the skin very well.
There was a man in the 1600's in Japan known as Hiyomoto Inawa. He was a master at archery and projectile weapons, including throwing stars. He threw high quality six pointed stars, and was said to be able to penetrate solid stone, and get it in pretty deep.
Fortunately, you can hold a shield with such weapons as throwing stars or spears. Arrows should to more damage, but they already do I believe.
There was a man in the 1600's in Japan known as Hiyomoto Inawa. He was a master at archery and projectile weapons, including throwing stars. He threw high quality six pointed stars, and was said to be able to penetrate solid stone, and get it in pretty deep.
Fortunately, you can hold a shield with such weapons as throwing stars or spears. Arrows should to more damage, but they already do I believe.
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Konstantin K
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Thank you, Grant, for disagreeing with me, (you knew that you misspelled my name, it's posted to the side) I see the faults in my thinking. I guess there is a choice of a lesser evil here, since the game is in real time.
There is yet one proposal, however, that I think would be agreed with:
Fists should not be able to penetrate shields and armor.
Otherwise it makes no sense to use a weapon against armor, except for defense. When two players fight, it is easier to hurt someone who has armor on with a fist, than with a weapon.
Darlok, if I am at all annoying or senseless, just tell me to shut up, and I will.
There is yet one proposal, however, that I think would be agreed with:
Fists should not be able to penetrate shields and armor.
Otherwise it makes no sense to use a weapon against armor, except for defense. When two players fight, it is easier to hurt someone who has armor on with a fist, than with a weapon.
Darlok, if I am at all annoying or senseless, just tell me to shut up, and I will.
No need to.Darlok, if I am at all annoying or senseless, just tell me to shut up, and I will.
But you tend to be a bit repeative, we all allready agreed that fist-damage is to high agains a iron/steal/whatever-armored person.
Sidenote for Bloodhearte:
A word about Magic is a "nono-thingy" here.
Miliae Alquaria, and the others:
As far as i understand it, its techically impossible to right now to have differend defense value according to the direction you face.
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paul laffing
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Adjust speeds for them. A throwing spear would take a long time to throw, and a bow a long time to fire. Throwing stars should be quicker, but hard to use, and You'd probably end up cutting your hand off by accident. ( and missing. and ruining a perfectly good pair of gloves )
Saying that, it is possible to Mis-Fire a bow, causing the Bow String to snap back( And a miss ), and to hit the enemy with the wrong end of a spear ( Less damage than normal sometimes? )
)Saying that, it is possible to Mis-Fire a bow, causing the Bow String to snap back( And a miss ), and to hit the enemy with the wrong end of a spear ( Less damage than normal sometimes? )
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Bloodhearte
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@Darlok - Sorry, different subject I was writing about.
@Paul - In my opinion, throwing stars are tougher to make than throwing spears. You can also buy throwing spears in the shop, but not throwing stars. In any case, it should probably depend on your strength.
@Rynt - No matter how many points or how sharp a throwing star is, it is pretty much impossible to injure yourself while throwing them. Aiming is a different story, because I used to throw them like one would throw a baseball; awful accuracy. Holding it between your index and middle finger with your thumb as a guide, however, makes them aim very well. Most people who use throwables in Illarion would probably already have this knowledge about how to throw stars, therefore I believe they would have a pretty good accuracy and power range. One thing that is true, however, is the fact that they don't have the best range. Perhaps they can be a bit more limited in that area?
As for fists, yes, they do probably too much damage. I notice that punching somebody who is wearing two shields has better chance of hitting than by using something such as a war axe. However, many people like fists as they are both fast and deadly. If they were to be weaker than what they are now, it would be almost impossible to come across somebody who takes pride in their fists. This does make sense if you want to fist fight somebody wearing full clad armor, but wouldn't it be likely that somebody with meat anchors for arms could easily render a battler unconcious if he or she palm-smashed against the helmet, or hit a vulnerable area? Perhaps such races as lizardmen would have a better chance of hitting harder with open fists because they have claws and tend to be high in strength.
I think such weapons as the thin silver daggers and needles should be classified as puncture weapons rather than slashing (Okay, maybe not needles, those aren't really considered weapons). Puncture weaponry should be able to hit somebody more often than slashing, because getting a small, sharp blade in the neck or some other vulnerable area isn't difficult. It shouldn't do as much damage as slashing, due to the fact that puncture weapons are often small. So in this case, slashing does deal more damage, but may not work well against a full armored warrior, so it's up to the less damaging weapons that can get into the small open areas.
As suggested last time, putting more weight in solid plate should certainly slow down the wearer in walking compared to somebody wearing a leather jerkin. Is it true now that you can be covered in steel armor head to toe, but still move as quick as somebody with no armor on?
Just a few thoughts.
@Paul - In my opinion, throwing stars are tougher to make than throwing spears. You can also buy throwing spears in the shop, but not throwing stars. In any case, it should probably depend on your strength.
@Rynt - No matter how many points or how sharp a throwing star is, it is pretty much impossible to injure yourself while throwing them. Aiming is a different story, because I used to throw them like one would throw a baseball; awful accuracy. Holding it between your index and middle finger with your thumb as a guide, however, makes them aim very well. Most people who use throwables in Illarion would probably already have this knowledge about how to throw stars, therefore I believe they would have a pretty good accuracy and power range. One thing that is true, however, is the fact that they don't have the best range. Perhaps they can be a bit more limited in that area?
As for fists, yes, they do probably too much damage. I notice that punching somebody who is wearing two shields has better chance of hitting than by using something such as a war axe. However, many people like fists as they are both fast and deadly. If they were to be weaker than what they are now, it would be almost impossible to come across somebody who takes pride in their fists. This does make sense if you want to fist fight somebody wearing full clad armor, but wouldn't it be likely that somebody with meat anchors for arms could easily render a battler unconcious if he or she palm-smashed against the helmet, or hit a vulnerable area? Perhaps such races as lizardmen would have a better chance of hitting harder with open fists because they have claws and tend to be high in strength.
I think such weapons as the thin silver daggers and needles should be classified as puncture weapons rather than slashing (Okay, maybe not needles, those aren't really considered weapons). Puncture weaponry should be able to hit somebody more often than slashing, because getting a small, sharp blade in the neck or some other vulnerable area isn't difficult. It shouldn't do as much damage as slashing, due to the fact that puncture weapons are often small. So in this case, slashing does deal more damage, but may not work well against a full armored warrior, so it's up to the less damaging weapons that can get into the small open areas.
As suggested last time, putting more weight in solid plate should certainly slow down the wearer in walking compared to somebody wearing a leather jerkin. Is it true now that you can be covered in steel armor head to toe, but still move as quick as somebody with no armor on?
Just a few thoughts.
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Bloodhearte
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:03 am
- Location: Yes please.
One last thought about throwing stars...
Maybe they should be replaced with throwing knives. As much as I really love throwing stars, it has been made clear that Illarion takes place in a seemingly European style.
I used to be on the pro side for such suggestions as martial arts, Asian style swords, and the like. My arguement was that we already had throwing stars, clearly an Asian weapon. However, this isn't Asia we are playing in, it's supposed to be close to the European Middle Ages from my understanding. The throwing stars in here are a bit odd, and it would probably make sense to simply change the graphic into throwing knives or something like that. They may or may not do as much damage as the throwing stars, but they are a bit tougher to throw; this would make Rynts idea more balanced against the throwing spears.
Maybe they should be replaced with throwing knives. As much as I really love throwing stars, it has been made clear that Illarion takes place in a seemingly European style.
I used to be on the pro side for such suggestions as martial arts, Asian style swords, and the like. My arguement was that we already had throwing stars, clearly an Asian weapon. However, this isn't Asia we are playing in, it's supposed to be close to the European Middle Ages from my understanding. The throwing stars in here are a bit odd, and it would probably make sense to simply change the graphic into throwing knives or something like that. They may or may not do as much damage as the throwing stars, but they are a bit tougher to throw; this would make Rynts idea more balanced against the throwing spears.