Illarion.org

Firstly, one would be completely deluded to forward the opinion that the temple is a guild that just randomly PK's people these days, (perhaps it was that way some time back, but to brand their faction as being something like this is really misleading, as is to jump straight into an assumption with hearsay and the old "it's how it was and always will be" theory) without evidence based on the factual happenings of the majority of said guild in current times. And by that I don't mean such examples as Damien's story about what he saw one time. Besides, is it not the case that all players should be treated on an individual bases in such cases of bad RP or abusing the system in whatever way? If someone has a problem with the Johann character, then just report it, don't air it here. A conversation for another time perhaps...

If you want the truth, then know that hardly anyone gets pk'd anymore... Especially not by the temple, they are smarter than that. But ofcourse I have noticed that they get the blame for it... It's true, the temple to the naked eye really has gone "soft", they still have things up their sleeve, but hey, they aren't going to go crazy. Which is because (in my opinion) of all the flame wars of the past, and the whole "one ruins it for all the others" cliche. They are "soft" now (in my humble opinion) because if they were still the 'scary I will kill you temple' that everyone believes them to be, they would probably all be banned by now because of OOC bitching. Oh yes believe, they are a player guild. If they weren't things would be a hell-lot different. Whoever described it as being a mafia sort of description would be correct, atleast as it is under Verdazar. It was when Avalyon the former Overlord was around that they were deemed 'darker', and if you payed attention lately you'll know that Avalyon was removed. It's only natural that they are different now. There are so many illusions going on in game these days, that even the PO himself won't be able to see through them.. Some of us like to play the looong game .

Take a step back and look at Illarion these days, one might sense a slight 'nanny' culture which has obviously been caused by such OOC fiasco as this. The game has been getting more tame, but I'm not complaining. I just don't want to see it get any tamer. Seems everyone has a wonderful habbit of merely looking and learning about the happenings in game through all these flamewars and conflicts on the forums, without ever hardly being present in the actual game itself.

Apologies Gerron, you didn't want a big discussion but I felt I had to say something. Even if it is incoherent ranting.

Temple= Player Guild who used to be a quest guild but got so popular and became that much of an influence to the game that the players continued it, and have never been exterminated. The end.

Vern Kron wrote:The Temple was at one time a quest guild. Now it is just a regular one.

Evan Ross wrote: "The Temple" now is a player guild

Aldan Vian wrote:Would be awsome if it was a group of fanatic cultists

Friedwulfa wrote:I would like to see a temple, which is spiritual, maybe with Rituals which have bearing on the whole community.The temple now just looks like an annoying Killerguild.

Velisai wrote:It is indeed a player guild

Alex Rose wrote:They're a player guild

Damien wrote:from what i saw, i do support Friedwulfa's answer.

Achae Eanstray wrote:I think the temple is actually one of the successful guilds on Illa

Kugar wrote:Temple= Player Guild

???? wrote:I consider it as player guild since it does not get really much GM support as far as I can see. And its a good player guild so keep it running as long as you can.

Thank you all for that valueble information! Sadly I had to filter most of that out of your discussions.

Achae Eanstray wrote:What projects are you talking of, and if you want to know about the temple, why not ask a char ig that is a member of the temple about it, or ask other chars ig what they think of the temple? If you want to know what players think of the temple, IMO that shouldn't matter to in-game play.

Don't worry about that. Thanks all.

-Matt

*confused* Did you lose a bet, Matt?

Kamilar wrote:*confused* Did you lose a bet, Matt?

No, we were just drunk. I might adress Damien's complaints some time though, cause although this was really a joke, we HAVE gotten valuable information here...

Yes. We can begin the self improvement stage.

-Matt

The message I got from this is that we don't kill enough people :/

nmaguire wrote:The message I got from this is that we don't kill enough people :/

Has the temple gotten weak?

Its like Kugar said ~ Everyone has bitched and moaned so much in the past that we decided to tone things down a bit. But apparently we cant win for loosing...there will be complaints no matter what we do.

I want to say 2 things: I had troubles with a certain char, too. I won't name him, the PO knows that i mean him. But i talked to him and we will try a new start in rp together. The other thing is: I am glad that there is "The Temple"! They spice up the RP, give opportunities and are mostly fun to speak with, ooc-wise.

My personal opinion? We've indulged Matt enough. Can we put this one to bed?

i like the temple their like the "bad good guys", if that made any sense, on Gobaith. if it wasnt for the fact that they hide all the way out on hellbriar i would have joined them by now :Pwell i did techincally..but he died>,< anyways..i like the temple because of their not so super seriousness, just look at their recruitement post

I don´t like that "Temple"-stuff. For me, most of them pretend to be bad for coolness. IG I heared more rumors about cruel mages and stuff about Dji than about all of the Temple-guys.
Also it does seem that all that does count for the Temple is skills. At least I can tell from my actual char that in be beginning (when my rp was better)
he was looked down upon for his faith and suddenly as the skills reached yellow he is greeted by them and they do not even mind a friendly spar.
Well, just my personal opinion, nothing to take serious.

Ssar'ney wrote:and stuff about Dji than about all of the Temple-guys.

I heard that he buys multiple suits of leather armour, and whips.
--

On the rest of the post: Yeah I don't think the temple is scary or evil enough. I mean when Jox told everyone about the temple thing and escaped from TB - big deal and everything. They don't sacrifice kiddies too often, I see it more as being some sort of 'secret club' than anything else.

Okay, this is going to be a big one, positive critics/suggestions and stuff.

For the first, Personal opinions are to be taken serious. At least - or especially - for the temple's guild leaders ! Because these opinions (and examples of happenings) describe the image of the guild amongst other players.
Since this image is kinda bad (happens since some, not only temple-member-players often happen to mistake "playing an evil character" for "being an ass", usually when things start going different than they planned and their characters start "losing" because other people catched up with skill powergaming), and many (not all ! some are n00bs!) of the temple char's players are usually fair roleplayers, there seem to be a few who the guild leadership needs to talk to.

Fact is, the "temple", as it is, still has the old history of evil, manslaughtering, undead-and-demons-loving badguys.
Of course, no "normal" aligned character of any player who knows or has read troll's bane related history will ever trust a known moshran/dragorog/bjolmur/cherass cultist. Which is good, since those are the "ultimate badguys" from the world background (D&D-alignment : chaotic evil) ! And, face it, if you "unpower" all dark/evil parts of a story background and turn them into the nice necromancer guy guilds from your neighbourhood, make the evilguys niceguys so to say, then all salt will be removed from the ingame story.

That all are things the temple leadership have to consider, and act about, more sooner than later (mass conversion ? )

My two cents, concerning any possible "newcoming" badguy groups :
If someone wants a "dark", but still people-friendly and non-psychopathic cult with a common motto or deity to worship, try Ronagan, Nargun or Cheerga.
Noone said that Ronagan's followers all HAVE to be thieves or assassins. Every robber, highwayman or robin hood / robbin' hood typed character fits into the Ronagan-scheme pretty well. "Take from the rich, give to the poor. I'm poor, so hand me yer shinies or i'm gonna gut ya !"
And take Nargun. Of course there are a lot of insane Nargun followers, but that's just one of the parts. The other part is gambling and luck / bad luck, the two sides of every coin. Want to play a "dark" mage or priest who still can be friendly to the neighbourhood ? Well, you also have the option to make him either a little bit insane, or gamble-maniac, or even addicted to any amusement if you put the char into a Nargun-Background. And you have a good reason to build a sibanac-and-alcohol-casino, if you wish for one.
Mix a group of the two above alone, well, there you have a nice encampment : rebels, robbers, pirates, drugs and gamblers. Make it dirty, you get the idea.
And, we don't have any Cheerga-followers around. A Mage following Cheerga can play with undead things without being "evil" at the same time (look at the trade-with-cheerga-thingy), so you can be cool, summon undead stuff and still fight mummies and skeletons in the crypts because you have to put the stray ones to rest, of course.

Yeah, there are many many many many many very unused options. My own critic point to the temple as a guild (besides the bad behaviour i saw from two of its members) is : Concept misplacement.
If you want to play some dark aligned cultists who are still able to fit into society, don't take the uber evil schemes for such a group just for the looks of coolness. Take the lesser evils and all the group's rp will snap into fitting much easier, since especially the less rp-experienced players won't act so conflict oriented.
And the newbies amongst the members won't have to wonder why every other fraction in the game hates their group.
Only the fewest players have the ability to play a "chaotic evil" character consequently, over any period longer than one or two days. Therefore, i call theming a big and public guild as a moshran-related cultist group "Concept misplacement".

You don't even need deities to make your char an evil person, especially if you don't want a pure evil char. What I mean is, look at Rhianna. She did some really bad things in her past and especially atm, for example she is a real racist when it comes to elves, and yes, that is evil. She is also fitting into society and a loving mother, but she has her dark sides perfectly well.

I just think, *evil* does not mean to be a cultist. Actions or thoughts can make a char evil as well. I got 5 chars atm, ok, I don't play all of them as often as I should because I am under a lot of stress in RL, but still. Only one char can say she is a purely good char, and that is my fairy. But even she has her mischievous moments.

Like Damien said: Don't take the worst background to be a cool evil guy, there are SO many more possibilities. Try a hunter whose village was burnt down and although he is still praying to Malachin, he has his maniac moments, hates all Albarians because he blames them for killing his people etc.
He can have friends, even a family on Gobaith, but also be a quite bad char whenever he gets the possibility to ^^.

EDIT: Sorry for any mistakes or diffuse stuff in my posts, I am ill. am going to bed now aswell.

Damien wrote:And, we don't have any Cheerga-followers around.

Yes we do!

Yes we do!

RYE SAID:"... they mainly exist as an irritant rather than a real threat."

This is because once once we become known to be a REAL THREAT, the more wannabe heroes come out of the woodwork. Also it depends on your definition of 'real threat' we dont want to massacre all others and have Gobaith just to ourselves.


AUST SAID: the description: "inactive" guild, is not entirely inaccurate, for the moment.

This is true...a few key members are unavailable to play lately. Also we are trying learn bout the new members. i.e- if they are going to stay, if they fit with our vision of things..


DAMIEN SAID:Both players - not characters - seemed to have the point of view that their characters had to "win" the conflict they caused. Which again is, in my view, a point of view that really disqualifies a player for rping a villain.

The one piece of advice that PO Dain told me, I always keep in mind and try to make sure that the new recriuts know it as well...ALWAYS EXPECT TO LOOSE. Dont plan to loose, but know it is highly likely.


SSAR'NEY SAID:Also it does seem that all that does count for the Temple is skills.

Since I began playing Illarion, especially the key Temple members have all been well skilled, and yes the skills ARE important, helps to make others have fear and/or respect and most of us spend a lot of time IG and have the time to hone our skills. And we want to be the best at what we do. So skills being importnt should not be an issue.


@ DAMIEN:Our characters do not think of themselves as evil. Also we are NOT a moshran/dragorog/bjolmur/cherass oriented group. Though some members may follow these dieties, the Temple as a whole follows none of them. Firstly we are trying to maintain a decent amount of ACTIVE members Also we are trying to find our niche...what our main focus should be. Things should improve when Verdazar retuns and we can put some ideas we have had lately into action.

MoonDust wrote:

Damien wrote:And, we don't have any Cheerga-followers around.

Yes we do!

Yes we do!

Thrym wrote:

MoonDust wrote:

Damien wrote:And, we don't have any Cheerga-followers around.

Yes we do!

Yes we do!

I love how Damien thinks he knows everything that happens IG just because he created the illa backstory.

Oh god, discussions. Thank you for your opinions about the Temple, however this is turning into a topic about what evil means to each of you.

The current Temple leader has been gone for a while, and so have I, I'll be back when he is hopefully, and then we will begin working on something new.
That's all that's needed to be said here I suppose.


Saarney, 80% of the Temple chars you spar with each week are probably mine. I've sparred you on 7 different maxed characters now since you hit the yellows, and I'm usually more neutral with my characters.

Damien, join the Temple.

-Matt

*hangs up a sign* Don't like the temple, hire a mercenary *g*

Retlak wrote:Saarney, 80% of the Temple chars you spar with each week are probably mine. I've sparred you on 7 different maxed characters now since you hit the yellows, and I'm usually more neutral with my characters.

Brilliant

Original purpose has been filled! Also, I haven't found anything useful in this thread!

Locked

Mesha