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Tehe. The background says lizards are usually religious, not usually fanatic. Keep that in mind when saying "bringing a part of the background into the game"
But of course where there is religion, there may be fanatism, and stuff. And a few more lizards usually aren't bad.

I've been in the staff for a while myself and i must say that in illarion, one has much less "ban-kick"-action than other "pure"roleplay server staffs and that whenever such a thing happens here, different GMs tend to gather opinions and discuss. The staff here, at least as long as i've witnessed it, at least tries to be fair.

A few other RP-oriented games i've checked out were alot like "i don't like this player, i'll ban him". A free 2D UO shard with huge RP test before playing, one that averagely has about three times as many online players as illa in good times (it's completely german though) banned the two most active players of a race permanently (who kinda kept the people of their town together) because a friend of a GM had a problem with one of the two. Which was a point that caused quite a number of players to first protest, and then leave.
If someone in illarion gets banned, there usually is a good reason behind that. The illarion server logs EVERYTHING that is done, said or clicked by ANYONE. So, GMs can actually see everything you kinda ever did. And secondary, most bans in illarion are not permanently unless the action by a player was kinda so drastical that he deserved it. But i have no idea what kind of ban was done in this case, and as well no idea why

Damien wrote:Tehe. The background says lizards are usually religious, not usually fanatic. Keep that in mind when saying "bringing a part of the background into the game"

"Since their society is based on religion, the centre of their cities is always a large temple dedicated to the water goddess."

"In the life of a Lizard, religion and honor are the most important things."

"Some of them suddenly awake with a holy shine in their eyes, and without saying a single word, walk away never to be seen again. The Priests call these ones "the enlightened ones". It is forbidden for other lizards to follow an "enlightened one"."

"Being the one who once brought the religion to the lizards, he now leads the high priests from there, with inspiration, wisdom and power, and helps the goddess in keeping and renewing the purity of all water."

"Lizard Warriors are either hunters or "Temple Guards", a kind of lizard paladin. They guard the temple entrances and priests, uphold law and order, and destroy all evil and corrupt things with their righteous fist. These guards are horrendous fighters, with almost fanatic behavior and an unstoppable demand for righteousness. They are trained in strange lizard combat techniques and powered by an incredible rage when in battle. Their war cry, "Glory for the goddess!","

Not fanatics...?

Hadrian_Abela wrote:

Damien wrote:Tehe. The background says lizards are usually religious, not usually fanatic. Keep that in mind when saying "bringing a part of the background into the game"

"Since their society is based on religion, the centre of their cities is always a large temple dedicated to the water goddess."

"In the life of a Lizard, religion and honor are the most important things."

"Some of them suddenly awake with a holy shine in their eyes, and without saying a single word, walk away never to be seen again. The Priests call these ones "the enlightened ones". It is forbidden for other lizards to follow an "enlightened one"."

"Being the one who once brought the religion to the lizards, he now leads the high priests from there, with inspiration, wisdom and power, and helps the goddess in keeping and renewing the purity of all water."

"Lizard Warriors are either hunters or "Temple Guards", a kind of lizard paladin. They guard the temple entrances and priests, uphold law and order, and destroy all evil and corrupt things with their righteous fist. These guards are horrendous fighters, with almost fanatic behavior and an unstoppable demand for righteousness. They are trained in strange lizard combat techniques and powered by an incredible rage when in battle. Their war cry, "Glory for the goddess!","

Not fanatics...?

/signed

... Did Damien just get Game-Background Owned?

o.o

AlexRose wrote:... Did Damien just get Game-Background Owned?

o.o

That happens all the time.

The half-orc thing is my favourite thus far.

Oh SNAP!

What half orc thing?

Olive = Damien?

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:What half orc thing?

"Half orcs are against the rules! There are no half orcs in illarion's lore!"

"Sometimes a slave marries a female Orc, and becomes a member of the Orc tribe that way, resulting in several half Orcs."

Whoopsy

Half Orcs = completely unrelated thing. It's a decision that was made after the background part was written. Half orcs may exist in the background world, but not in the played game world because there is no "half orc" race you can choose. Same for half-vampires, half-demons and half-dragons (which we had as player excuses for power emotes with the reason "if you can play a half orc, you can play a half demon too"). Therefore the decision "Play no things you cannot choose during char creation, hence no half-anythings-at-all".
---

To the lizzy part :

There is not a single sentence saying "Lizards are usually fanatics." or likewise. Nowhere. There are a few hints that some lizards could be played as fanatics, but nothing points them out as a fanatic race.
Keep in mind :
Being a religious person does not mean to be fanatic as well, especially not if you have a religion that teaches tolerance as virtue (compare : creeds, general descriptions about religions of the elder gods).
Plus, religion does NOT equal fanatism.

If religion and honor are important things, it does not mean that fanatism is important as well.

The "enlightened ones" are old lizzys. They go away and most are never seen again. Noone knows where they go, possibly just to a place where they can die in peace, or meditate to ascend to be higher stuffed animals... or whatevar... Where is fanatism in that ?

And using this :

"Being the one who once brought the religion to the lizards, he now leads the high priests from there, with inspiration, wisdom and power, and helps the goddess in keeping and renewing the purity of all water."

is completely useless as discussion food, because THAT is from a Lizard's tale. A legend. Which does not even slightly mention the word fanatism. Something they tell their children and novice priests to tell them to behave and where the old lizzy priests have their authority from. You all know santa Claus and the black guy, right ? Well they stood model for that.
Still no hint for a "usually fanatic" people.

And yeah, the Temple guards, as outstanding example for those lizard fighters who can be seen as "ALMOST" fanatic when they throw themselves into battle, ferociously to scare off their enemies, and with strange battle moves no human has ever seen (Hey, humans lack a tail, right ? And no, that tiny wiener-ish one between your legs (if male) does not count as comparison to the two meter long muscle-and-scales-structures lizards call THEIR tail.).
You might have noticed that there also is a slight difference between the words "ALMOST" and "TOTALLY". Just a very slight, tiny difference.

If you read something you want to use for arguments please really READ it, don't just fly over it. Especially if you're talking to the one who wrote the stuff you're talking about, for there is a slight chance that he still knows a little itty bitty bit of what he wrote and why he wrote stuff in certain ways.

N00bs.



btw : Picking random text parts and using them as arguments for something kinda unrelated to it may work with the bible, but not with illa's background.

Damien wrote:If religion and honor are important things, it does not mean that fanatism is important as well.

If religion and honour are THE most important things, then isn't that grounds for fanatism? Its not 'important' its THE MOST important things. Like honour was the most important thing for samurai

The "enlightened ones" are old lizzys. They go away and most are never seen again. Noone knows where they go, possibly just to a place where they can die in peace, or meditate to ascend to be higher stuffed animals... or whatevar... Where is fanatism in that ?

"Enlightened" is a hightly respected term. Its shows that someone is so utterly knowlegable. And what makes them so respected ? Oh yes the "holy shine" in their eyes.

And using this :

"Being the one who once brought the religion to the lizards, he now leads the high priests from there, with inspiration, wisdom and power, and helps the goddess in keeping and renewing the purity of all water."

is completely useless as discussion food, because THAT is from a Lizard's tale. A legend.

Legends are perfect reflections of the culture of the people who invented it. Viking legends are full of giants dying, and Odin ripping out an eye to get knowledge. They were a warlike people.

If your LEGENDS are about a person who is given a high glory like that because of religion...

And yeah, the Temple guards, as outstanding example for those lizard fighters who can be seen as "ALMOST" fanatic when they throw themselves into battle, ferociously to scare off their enemies, and with strange battle moves no human has ever seen (Hey, humans lack a tail, right ? And no, that tiny wiener-ish one between your legs (if male) does not count as comparison to the two meter long muscle-and-scales-structures lizards call THEIR tail.).
You might have noticed that there also is a slight difference between the words "ALMOST" and "TOTALLY". Just a very slight, tiny difference.

Here's the problem, I quote you again. "Lizard Warriors are either hunters or "Temple Guards". Right, nothing else. No 'knights', no 'mercenaries'. If you fight your purpose in life is either to get food, or to defend your temple. The entire war-arm of the lizard community is controlled by the temple.

And in the heat of battle, what do they do? ""Glory for the goddess!", (shouted in common language, so that the disbelievers can understand what they are ready to die for)"

So lets piece this up again. The temple is the most important part of the city. The temple controls ALL of the fighters which don't collect food. The temple guards are prepared to die for the Glory of the Goddess.

No thanks not fanatism at all.

If you read something you want to use for arguments please really READ it, don't just fly over it. Especially if you're talking to the one who wrote the stuff you're talking about, for there is a slight chance that he still knows a little itty bitty bit of what he wrote and why he wrote stuff in certain ways.

I've played lizards for more than a year, I've read it more than once. And you didn't know what you wrote about half-orcs apparently

And you didn't read what i wrote above apparently either
I admit, i edited it shortly before you posted. So go up and read about the half orcs comment.

And, again, what you list up are all tiny hints that there MAY be fanatic lizards. Nothing ever says that most lizards are fanatics. Even the Temple Guards are just described to seem "almost fanatic" to outsiders. All these hints have been put there by intention, but also you have to un-link your mind from our own world :

Religion is very, very important to them lizzys-
BUT !
It's not christianity nor islam nor bhuddism that is important to them.

It helps if you try to stop comparing things to our world and start extending your mind a bit. Let your fantasy work, not your experiences and memories from our world (and even in our world there were and are religions that raise the pupils to think and to NOT be fanatic).

Start using your imagination !
And stop trying to see things as hints for what you like to interpret into them. You're twisting the meanings of stuff to your likings there, by alot.

Well, to make it short, i just didn't want to write "You, Sir, have no imagination !"

Cya later. And hmh. We still need Llama-ism in the game.

Damien , if you didn't want everyone to play close-minded-conservative-religiously-brainwashed-lizzys, then I'm sorry but whatever you wrote doesn't fit it.

I actually like the religious-brainwashing of lizardkind, its their defining factor...as well as their tails.

And I never mentioned any real world religion in my arguments, although I could easily draw a few links... but then Nory would pounce on my and bite my head off.

"We still need Llama-ism in the game. "

I have been begging for llama graphics for ages. As soon as we have a llama 'monster', the Church of Llamatia will quickly follow

Perhaps someone should redo the translation from the german edition of the lizards to the english? Perhaps some parts were translated a bit too harshly.

I wholeheartedly agree with Hadrian here though. Lizards, in their description on the website, come off as fanatic religious zealots (to me), whom will do everything for their goddess.

They will, of course. That's a part of it, but not the whole picture. Don't forget the text's perspective of an external watcher, it often says "it seems like", not "it is so". That of course leaves you some freedom, so you CAN play fanatic lizzys, but it's not intended to forget the rest of it completely. You can't just pick parts from the background descriptions that fit your idea and forget about everything else. For example, you really have to read the god's description that belongs to a religion to really get the direction of it, not just the creeds or races description. Well, that doesn't count as much for the creed descriptions that enable LOTS of gods - still, a follower of a certain god will like his patron's personality and may strive to act alike, just from the related teachings.

Imagine above said lizard-ish dedication in a religion of one of the elder gods in the world illarion, not something like christianity or islam or any other (expansive) religion of our world.
The elder religions in illarion aren't expansive, not "radical". Tanora didn't teach them that all other religions are wrong - in fact, no god of a pantheon that consists of many gods is too likely to do that - and it's also nowhere mentioned that they see anything as "heretic" and have to eradicate it because of that. In fact, a big point of Tanora's description is "wise".

Please take a look at Tanora's description. And then take the extended description of the lizard's creed as add-on to that ! That's how it's supposed to work. And that will kinda clarify everything related to it. There, you will find that some followers can look like fanatics, always ready to smash everything truly evil or related to it, but it clearly says that the biggest part of her followers are of peaceful nature. Don't oversee that !

Hint :
Of course it's quite an effort to play a lizzy who is raised to be kinda peaceful or even open minded, and still believes in his fixed religious principles. And when it comes to stuff that is unjust and "evil" his views become so fixed that he seems to other people as a fanatic : "An undead ? RRRRRrrrrrrrr.... Glory for the goddessss !" (Insert "SLAY HO !"(tm) action here) - even the most cultivized lizzy could turn into a whirlwind of claws, tail and steel.
But that kinda ends up in a certain degree of mastery or roleplaying, thinking out-of-boxes a bit, and i admit, you can't expect that much thinking and acting from most people. And of course, you can't expect from nowaday's players to read everything related to a certain theme if they find one part they like, so i sometimes really wonder why i bothered about writing all that stuff. *g*
You can always play as you like, you are not forced to read anything of the background here (which is, in my view, one reason for the fact that most races don't really have race-rp), but don't expect other players to adapt to your views either if they like to focus on another part of the descriptions which they like better.

Anyway, the lizzy i sometimes play is quite fanatic as well, but mainly because he uses to be kinda plain dumb and expects anything unknown to perhaps be kinda evil. But on the other hand he can be as harmless as a lamb when it comes to people he knows as not-evil, or give him tasty fresh fish.
But ! That still doesn't mean that the whole race is like him.

Remark : To understand and get the whole picture of a story or a description, you have to read the whole, in the order it was written in. Else you will miss important parts.
Read the lizard description as it stands in the wiki, in a row, and then their creeds description right after, and read tanora's description before or at the same time, and you'll see what i mean.

Tlatloc must be thinking:

"Hey, please, guys, it was a thread about how I was quiting the game, please, show me some atention!!"

Right. I don't believe in locking threads, but we can take this conversation somewhere else?

I think that everyone who felt to should have put his stuff into the side theme, sorry for abusing this thread for pointing stuff out
He'll be back.

Damien wrote:He'll be back.

I wouldn't bank on that